Chain Install questions

I plan on changing the sprockets and chain on the wee tonight. I had a few questions.

Everything I read says to grind the heads off the pins on the old chain before using the D.I.D type chain tool. If I am grinding the heads off already why would I even mess with the tool? Why wouldn’t I just grind the chain in half? What am I missing here?

I keep reading about proper chain alignment and the chain alignment tool. Isn’t that what the little tick marks on the side of the swing arm are for? If I Make sure they are even and I am good to go , right?

In this instance I am changing both sprockets and chains because I rode a pretty good ways with the chain shot. Do you change both sprockets every time you change the chain? Surely the back one doesn’t wear as fast as the front since it's way larger .

When you measure sag is it as simple as pushing the lower portion of the chain up and then down and measuring the difference from the bottom of the chain?

I will avoid asking about chain cleaning and Lube as the DID Chain Package Maintenance section and the DID Chain Cleaning and lubrication manual cleared all that up for me
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I used a bolt cutter to remove the old chain. To adjust the new chain to length, I notched the pins with a dremel tool to prevent breaking the tip of the pin pusher. Rather than purchase an alignment tool, I used a long straight edge (the string method works too. The alignment marks can be off by quite a bit, but you can't tell until you verify and yes I changed the sprockets with the chain.

You have the sag check correct in pulling down as well as pushing up. I have seen folks measure the chain at rest against just pushing up on it. At rest in neutral the slack naturally splits itself between the top and bottom runs of the chain.

I always change both sprockets with the chain. You are right that the back is not as worn as the front, but it is quite worn by the time the front and the chain are used up. I won't go too deep in the details, just saying that a worn sprocket will beat up a new chain pretty quickly.

aluminum sprockets are good for racing dirt bikes not for big adventure bikes!!

If you don't have a bolt cutter up to the task this hacksaw rod will have your chain in half with 5 minutes of elbow grease. I find it much easier than grinding and using the chain breaker tool. I started using this method 30 years ago on my GS750. The jackwagon owner of ATK called me a liar when I informed him I cut the chain off the bike in this manner. He insisted it couldn't have been an o-ring chain if I was able to cut it and denied my warranty claim.

http://www.harborfreight.com/the-incredible-blade-carbide-cutting-rods-pack-of-2-96274.html

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Rainmaker said:

Everything I read says to grind the heads off the pins on the old chain before using the D.I.D type chain tool. If I am grinding the heads off already why would I even mess with the tool? Why wouldn’t I just grind the chain in half? What am I missing here?

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It is a bit easier (and less time) to grind off the heads and then push the pin out with the tool if you don't have something heavy-duty to just cut the chain in half.

A Dremel and a chain tool are the "minimum" needed for the job. If you have something else - you don't have to be elegant - just whack it in half!

I just dremel one link in half rather than grind the heads off of pins and the old chain is off in a minute or two, max. ALWAYS change front+rear+chain at the same time. One worn/old component will accelerate the wear on the other new/two A TON. I've always read that the tick marks CAN be off, but I've never found them to be off by that much. Usually using the tick marks for a basic guide (check each side's position before disassembly, and return proportionately upon reassembly) the verifying with a straight edge/string and sighting down the chain/sprockets can get you plenty close enough, IMO. But the true mechanics and/or perfectionists would probably recommend more exacting methods.

Remember when you are setting the deflection it's better to run the jack bolts from loose towards tight not the other way. Tighten the big axle nut so that the axle will just move as you tighten the jack bolts If you try to loosen the bolts the axle probably won't move back towards the engine. So always better to go from loose to tight.

When you are ready to tighten the axle nut, put your wrench handle above the axle and push the handle towards the engine. That way you stay tight against the jack bolts and won't risk pulling that side of the axle back, which will make the chain tighter and jack bolt on that side looser.

When you're done check that the chain tension and alignment are still where you wanted them.

If removing the chain for disposal, you can break it any way you want.. push rivet , cut the chain, grind off the rivet heads and pry the link plate off.

Many tech will grind the rivet head off for a chain being removed because it's easier on the tool, less likely to break the driving pin.

For the install, it's best to grind the head off the rivet before driving the rivet though the bushing. .. otherwise as you push that mushroomed rivet head through the chain link bushing you may well deform the bushing.

If you grind the rivet head off on a new chain take care not to overheat the link.. you do not want to drive the grease out of the link, nor damage the O ring if there is one.

if my remembery serves me correctly, a WEE takes a riveted chain, not one using a master link w/ clip

i'm guessing you have secured the proper tool for RIVETING

if so, the kit i got had a gadget that would push the old pins out, once the heads were ground off and w/ a few simple parts changes is the tool to RIVET the new heads back on

when you have gone thru the above mentioned processes to align & properly tension the new chain, you might consider double checking the tension by lifting the bike off the ground & aligning the swing arm w/ the counter shaft & rear axle

here'z how i did it on the DR

i took a strap & raised the rear wheel so the 3 pivot points are lined up, as indicated w/ the blue tape



there should still be a slight bit of slack in the chain, when the system is at it's most extended position, STRAIGHT

good luck w/ the project

sw

Loosen the countershaft nut before removing the chain. Trust me.

DFW_Warrior said:

Loosen the countershaft nut before removing the chain. Trust me.

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must be spoken from EXPERIENCE

If you weren't going to replace the sprockets, grinding off the heads and pushing out a link is the best way to take the old chain off. This is because you can use a clip master link to hook the new chain up to the old chain. Then you pull the old chain out and it feeds the new chain on. It can save a lot of time if you have a lot stuff to pull off to get to the countershaft sprocket.

I'll pitch a wrench in the works and suggest that you do what the service manual recommends. For example, changing the chain on my bike require removing "the rear wheel hanger" or swing arm. The task takes about 5 minutes and allows for inspection and maintenance of the bearings in the swing arm. There is no cutting or grinding or special tools required. I have skipped this procedure in the past and wished I had done it correctly.

Meriden said:

I'll pitch a wrench in the works and suggest that you do what the service manual recommends. For example, changing the chain on my bike require removing "the rear wheel hanger" or swing arm. The task takes about 5 minutes and allows for inspection and maintenance of the bearings in the swing arm. There is no cutting or grinding or special tools required. I have skipped this procedure in the past and wished I had done it correctly.

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Yes true, if your buying a pre assembled OEM endless chain to re-install.
But as that literally never happens.. and.. unless you need to remove the swing-arm anyway (for service) doing so only complicates a simple job.

E.Marquez said:

Yes true, if your buying a pre assembled OEM endless chain to re-install.
But as that literally never happens.. and.. unless you need to remove the swing-arm anyway (for service) doing so only complicates a simple job.

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I've changed the chain and sprocket sets three times with aftermarket parts. Only once was the chain not endless and I wish I had pulled the swing arm that time. I'm not too sure that buying OEM chains "literally never happens" either.

My point is to service it.

As I said, removing the swing arm is a super simple job, one that is easier than grinding off pins, at least on my bike.

But all that is going down a rabbit trail. The real point was to check the factory repair manual for that motorcycle and see how the manufacturer suggests replacing the part. I know the folk wisdom is to ignore the mechanical engineers who designed the product for the unbound insight of crowd sourcing, but I still like to know what the engineers were thinking. If the manufacturer says grind it off, by all means grind it off.

DFW_Warrior said:

Loosen the countershaft nut before removing the chain. Trust me.

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My new bike doesn't have a countershaft nut, the sprocket is free floating.

Meriden said:

I've changed the chain and sprocket sets three times with aftermarket parts. Only once was the chain not endless and I wish I had pulled the swing arm that time. I'm not too sure that buying OEM chains "literally never happens" either.



My point is to service it.



As I said, removing the swing arm is a super simple job, one that is easier than grinding off pins, at least on my bike.



But all that is going down a rabbit trail. The real point was to check the factory repair manual for that motorcycle and see how the manufacturer suggests replacing the part. I know the folk wisdom is to ignore the mechanical engineers who designed the product for the unbound insight of crowd sourcing, but I still like to know what the engineers were thinking. If the manufacturer says grind it off, by all means grind it off.

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My apologies I stand corrected
I based what I said on my experience of knowing a couple hundred chains and sprocket sets changed at a 6 brand dealership,
plus the 16 sets I changed in calendar year 14 and the three I've changed so far in calendar year 15.

Only two of all of those that I know of were endless link pre-assembled and both of those were insurance jobs that required an OEM part.

Yet still I made a bad assumption I didn't consider Yamaha, BMW Kawasaki, Harley and other brands perhaps all of those are serviced with in endless link preassembled chains.

Nor did I consider folks that simply prefer a preassembled endless link chain that requires swingarm removal because they just don't want to mess with riveting a chain.

That's very reasonable and probably common for many folks... I just don't know any of them.
So I made a bad assumption for all based on my experiences.

And I absolutely agree that servicing the swingarm is a really good idea...WHEN NEEDED... why not do it while changing the chain IF IT NEEDS IT.

Thanks for your response it really made me remember I need to consider others experience and not make absolute comments based on just mine.

Grinding off the link rivets to remove and dispose of the chain has nothing to do with what chain design was spec'ed for a bike..
What type of a chain connection, rivet or clip type master link is perhaps something you might want to follow, but even that is not an absolute.
Chains are rated by size and strength... install a replacement that is the same or equal to what the OEM spec'ed is a good idea. But still not an absolute need.. if your willing to understand what an optional chain might allow for, or limit on.

Well I completed the chain and sprocket swap. I used a saws all and cut the old chain off in 20 seconds. The front sprocket nut came off with a 1/2 breaker bar and no cheater pipe. I had read you needed one , I didn't have one and was a little worried. Everything else went without a hitch. I did not get overly complicated with the alignment.

As for reading the service manual I have one on order. I tend to ask questions from those that have done it in the past for "real world advice" and review factory recommendations as a guide. The picture I posted is a good example from the manufacture . Use Kerosene don't use Kerosene. Even better if I can pull up a You tube video of someone doing it I work with design engineers, mechanical engineers, and sustaining engineers daily. I watched the Master degreed Mechanical engineer that sits in my office try to use a 15mm socket on a 13mm nut for 20 minutes . It's good to review multiple sources.

I am impressed you did not need the cheater bar for the front sprocket nut. I had to use a BIG cheater to get the nut loose on Squeaky's old SV650. From the factory that thing was insanely tight! She sat on the bike while I used a 4 ft long piece of pipe and even then I had to really get into it! I have NEVER seen one that tight, before or since

Tourmeister said:

I am impressed you did not need the cheater bar for the front sprocket nut. I had to use a BIG cheater to get the nut loose on Squeaky's old SV650. From the factory that thing was insanely tight! She sat on the bike while I used a 4 ft long piece of pipe and even then I had to really get into it! I have NEVER seen one that tight, before or since

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Well, it was Squeaky's bike

Every thing I had read said it was going to be tight. I was ready for a fight. I had even looked at tractor supply for a nice piece of pipe but had no luck or need. I guess I got lucky.

Rainmaker said:

Everything I read says to grind the heads off the pins on the old chain before using the D.I.D type chain tool. If I am grinding the heads off already why would I even mess with the tool? Why wouldn’t I just grind the chain in half?

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Any way you break the chain is fine. I find it easier to grind two small heads and push out the link rather than cut the whole chain with the grinder.

Rainmaker said:

I keep reading about proper chain alignment and the chain alignment tool. Isn’t that what the little tick marks on the side of the swing arm are for? If I Make sure they are even and I am good to go , right?

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The tick marks are better than nothing but the chain alignment tool means you can get the chain aligned even if your tick marks are off.

Rainmaker said:

In this instance I am changing both sprockets and chains because I rode a pretty good ways with the chain shot. Do you change both sprockets every time you change the chain?

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You do not need to change everything at once. If you keep everything properly lubricated the additional wear is minimal. If you don't mind taking it apart to change one sprocket then change parts as needed.

Rainmaker said:

When you measure sag is it as simple as pushing the lower portion of the chain up and then down and measuring the difference from the bottom of the chain?

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That's exactly how it's done.

Rainmaker said:

Well, it was Squeaky's bike

Every thing I had read said it was going to be tight. I was ready for a fight. I had even looked at tractor supply for a nice piece of pipe but had no luck or need. I guess I got lucky.

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Borrow an impact if you don't have one and spin it off in one second. Makes no difference if the chain is on or off. High quality battery impacts are game changers. I almost never put my little 1/4 inch impact down while I am working on bikes. It is a perfect tool for working on bikes. My half inch battery impact will break loose axle nuts, clutch basket nuts, flywheel nuts, and counter shaft nuts so easily it is cheating.

Johnf3 said:

Borrow an impact if you don't have one and spin it off in one second. Makes no difference if the chain is on or off. High quality battery impacts are game changers. I almost never put my little 1/4 inch impact down while I am working on bikes. It is a perfect tool for working on bikes. My half inch battery impact will break loose axle nuts, clutch basket nuts, flywheel nuts, and counter shaft nuts so easily it is cheating.

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One of the best things I ever purchased was a $25 1/2" drive electric impact that I kept in my truck for quick tire changes. It also worked nicely when breaking loose leaf spring u bolts on a rusted boat trailer and shocks on my truck. Unfortunately it recently bit the dust and I haven't replaced it yet. Luckily, I didn't need anything other than a break over bar this time