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The Status of motorcycling in the U.S.

Scooters rock.

Looking forward to visiting with you about your Burgman at Bob's Thanksgiving Meet. I was surprised by an Aprilia 500cc scooter that kept up with me in New Mexico when I riding home on my Tenere. He sold his Ducati to buy the scooter. It could scoot!
 
Scaling down from a 1200gs to a 650 Vstrom was a good choice. Neither age or nor physical ability were a consideration. Several years later, I wanted another bike and since neither my ego, and masculinity were not a factor I bought a scooter. Granted, it will run close to a hundred mph, but the fun factor is almost as high as having a sidecar rig. My Suzuki Burgman 650 is, is, is, very practical. That's why I bought a second Burgman. One for the island and one for Texas. I'll be installing a trailer hitch and pulling my Bushtec trailer anywhere I ever want to go. Now, I know several guys that probably look down their nose at scooters. Don't knock it till you try it. If you are lacking in your "man card", that's not my concern.
Scooters rock.

Ah, er, we love scooters. We shouldn't have sold ours. :doh::nono::shrug::rolleyes:
 
The motorcycle companies will build whatever we want. The real story is the 75 million boomers 51-69 years old have defined the market, AND have the disposable income. They (we) are beginning to slow down, quite riding, die, etc. Not too many boomers I know want to ride a sport bike, or even ride that much any more. A casual observation; I don't see the Harley trains like I used too, so I know the riders and mileage is down.

The ATV market is probably the life saver of motorcycle dealers.
 
Reminds me of a thread in alt.motorcycle years ago. The cruiser guys were debating with the sport bike guys which style of bike was a better chick magnet. The argument went on for some time before one astute guy posted, "Have you ever noticed that the really cute chicks are riding Vespas?"

All bikes have different strong points. If I lived in an high density urban environment all of the time, I'd probably own a small scooter.

I'd not looked at Honda's numbers in some time, so I took a look at them today. The opening photo in the Review of Operations Motorcycle Business is a Pioneer 1000 four wheeler. North America makes up only 9.8% of their overall motorcycle market in terms of sales revenue and sales are declining. Again in terms of revenue, motorcycles are only 10% as big as financing. Power equipment, which is growing, is 75% the size of motorcycles.

All that is to say in this global economy, Honda execs trying to grow the motorcycle business probably never think "what we need is a new dual sport for the North America market!"
 
Reminds me of a thread in alt.motorcycle years ago. The cruiser guys were debating with the sport bike guys which style of bike was a better chick magnet. The argument went on for some time before one astute guy posted, "Have you ever noticed that the really cute chicks are riding Vespas?"

All bikes have different strong points. If I lived in an high density urban environment all of the time, I'd probably own a small scooter.


I'd not looked at Honda's numbers in some time, so I took a look at them today. The opening photo in the Review of Operations Motorcycle Business is a Pioneer 1000 four wheeler. North America makes up only 9.8% of their overall motorcycle market in terms of sales revenue and sales are declining. Again in terms of revenue, motorcycles are only 10% as big as financing. Power equipment, which is growing, is 75% the size of motorcycles.

All that is to say in this global economy, Honda execs trying to grow the motorcycle business probably never think "what we need is a new dual sport for the North America market!"

In HOUSTON? Ever ridden Westheimer? I'll take my KLR, thanks. I'd choose a CRF450, but they ain't street legal. :rofl:
 
In HOUSTON? Ever ridden Westheimer? I'll take my KLR, thanks. I'd choose a CRF450, but they ain't street legal. :rofl:

Actually I have a house in Houston and have ridden Westhemier. It's RT work for me. I guess Houston seems big and densely populated, but when it comes to comparative population density, Houston isn't even on the list. Frankly I was thinking of Chicago as an example and there are a lot of cities in the US more densely populated than Chicago. If I were living in Europe where many of the streets were set down prior to the automobile then a scooter would be practical. Come to think of it, that would go for Annapolis, Maryland too.
 
300 lb adventure bike with a 40hp parallel smooth as silk engine. 5 gallons of fuel and decent wind protection and low enough seat height that someone with a 30 in inseam can get at least one foot on the ground. Basically a unicorn
 
300 lb adventure bike with a 40hp parallel smooth as silk engine. 5 gallons of fuel and decent wind protection and low enough seat height that someone with a 30 in inseam can get at least one foot on the ground. Basically a unicorn



300 pounds is a pretty high (or low) hurdle to clear for any road going bike. The Versys 300 sounds pretty close to what you’re describing, though.
 
Actually I have a house in Houston and have ridden Westhemier. It's RT work for me. I guess Houston seems big and densely populated, but when it comes to comparative population density, Houston isn't even on the list. Frankly I was thinking of Chicago as an example and there are a lot of cities in the US more densely populated than Chicago. If I were living in Europe where many of the streets were set down prior to the automobile then a scooter would be practical. Come to think of it, that would go for Annapolis, Maryland too.

Well, for roads that should be MX tracks I want suspension and I kinda like sitting up high to see over the SUVs. :D Neither is a quality a small scooter possesses.
 
Looking forward to visiting with you about your Burgman at Bob's Thanksgiving Meet. I was surprised by an Aprilia 500cc scooter that kept up with me in New Mexico when I riding home on my Tenere. He sold his Ducati to buy the scooter. It could scoot!

In 1989 I was headed south on my 74 Norton Commando on US93 south of Ely Nevada when I saw a bike coming my way. I was wondering what it was and I was surprised to see a Honda Hilux, just as he was seeing a Norton Commando.
Miles from anywhere and a long way from home. Good memories.
 
You gotta think that the luxury & affordability of modern cars has to have much to do with this. A/C, heat, electric everything, WiFi, 40+mpg for 0 down & 0% financing?
 
You gotta think that the luxury & affordability of modern cars has to have much to do with this. A/C, heat, electric everything, WiFi, 40+mpg for 0 down & 0% financing?

Too true. Some of the cost is in required safety and emissions features, but with starting prices in the $13K range, a new car can be had pretty cheap if you skip the frills and status charges.
 
A lot of the conversation around this subject swings to manufacturers not marketing or delivering product lines (in the US at least) to new, young riders and women. I believe that to be a fallacy, young people will find their way onto bikes but that's going to be incremental business at best for the reasons outlined above.

I actually think their best (and probably only) viable strategy is the one they're already following. Try and attract more affluent GenX'ers to either the Adventure Riding category or the high end sport bikes, sell a lifestyle whether it be Boorman's or Lorenzo. A trip to AMS Ducati in Dallas on a weekend will show exactly the last demographic left that can be persuaded to purchase a new bike irrespective of price.

Unfortunately for Japan, neither of these markets are really serviced by them, for sportbikes it's Ducati (who broke sales records in 2016) and for ADV it's BMW with the other European brands following behind & the Japanese somewhere even further back.

As for the big bore cruiser market, it's aging out and the GenX'ers will be a hard sell on a bike that Dr. Grandpa has turned into a caricature.
 
Interesting discussion. No answers here although I speculate that demographics are crucial, so is population growth and density of traffic. Motorcycling is changing fast. Perhaps electric bikes are the future? Light weight and safe are keys, so is price point. Attracting new riders depends on the "cool" factor, and safety, and practicality. Given that, I love my blue Guzzi V7 III, the bike does everything I want in a motorcycle. Just wish Houston was not such a toxic riding venue....
 
Interesting discussion. No answers here although I speculate that demographics are crucial, so is population growth and density of traffic. Motorcycling is changing fast. Perhaps electric bikes are the future? Light weight and safe are keys, so is price point. Attracting new riders depends on the "cool" factor, and safety, and practicality. Given that, I love my blue Guzzi V7 III, the bike does everything I want in a motorcycle. Just wish Houston was not such a toxic riding venue....

Meh, electric bikes...never understood that. They don't make noise. How could they be sold to a market that chunks the stock mufflers before they even fire it up. :rofl: Personally, though, I still pine for my old two strokes. Nothing like a two stroke twin...better yet triple...up on the pipe. :D Guess I could always rig up a MP3 of a two stroke on that electric thing. :lol2:

As for Houston, I have no desire to go there even in the truck unless I HAVE to. I live west of Eagle Lake, not quite in the Houston sphere of influence....yet. I rather like it that way.
 
The market may have to decline a little more before it is "discovered" by a younger generation. I suspect it's a good guess that electrics will be the future... of course they are already here. One of the trials threads I've been following is on the new generation of electric trials bikes. The two biggest complaints seem to be no clutch and way too much power. I'd like to ride one, but the Sherco jumps out from under me as it is.
 
Electric is coming. In the world of automotive sports, the FIA is recognizing that gas-powered F1 cars could ultimately become dinosaurs instead of test beds and purveyors of next-generation technology. To that end, they're created Formula E, an all-electric open-wheel racing class, in hopes of capturing the imaginations of a generation who may never drive a car with a gasoline engine.
 
Good old Jack!

The new tesla roadster does 0 to 60 in1.9 seconds. 250 plus top speed. 620 mile range.

Put that equation into a goldwing, very possible with tech available in 2 to 5 years, and the switch will be made. And it will be fabulous.

Battery technology is ramping up quick. 500 mile range 300hp superbikes will be a reality in a decade or less.
 
Good old Jack!



The new tesla roadster does 0 to 60 in1.9 seconds. 250 plus top speed. 620 mile range.



Put that equation into a goldwing, very possible with tech available in 2 to 5 years, and the switch will be made. And it will be fabulous.



Battery technology is ramping up quick. 500 mile range 300hp superbikes will be a reality in a decade or less.



I don’t buy that time frame or those performance specs, but I am looking forward to an electric bike that actually competes with gas burners.
 
Hadn't really thought about it until now, but after racing and trials where ride time to down time is low, platforms like the Wing may be the first to really exploit electric technology. First, they are primarily ridden in areas where Level 2, CHAdeMO and other dedicated charging systems are common. Also they would be a better at supporting the weight of the batteries, on board chargers, etc.

Between Nissan, Tesla and RV parks getting into the game there is an explosion of charging stations all over the country. The last time I looked at buying an electric car was in 2015 and I was amazed at how many new charging stations have popped up since then.

An electric future may be sometime off for ADV riders, DS guys and others out in the rural areas. It seems that there is still a bottle neck with battery charging, but they are solving that problem a lot faster than I guessed it would happen.
 
To Meridan's (and others') point, there are a couple of things to recognize. One is that technology is changing and evolving fast. Where battery technology moved at a creep for years, it has vastly accelerated now because there's far more incentive than ever in developing it and incorporating it into practical platforms.

The other thing to realize is that we too often tend to look at tomorrow's technology through today's -- or even yesterday's -- eyes. 110 years ago, people scoffed at automobiles because it was hard to find fuel for them away from certain locations, and because automobiles couldn't emulate horses. As it turns out, the first problem was solved much more quickly than might have been expected, and nobody cared about the second. Transportation, and how we thought about it, wasn't dependent on the philosophy of horsemanship. It's easy for us to look at our use of motorcycles - or any IC-engine-based transportation - and assume the next generation will see its use exactly as we see it. When we do so, we're almost certainly wrong.

So where does this leave the future of the motorcycle? I have no idea. Maybe like those bright green bicycles in downtown Ft Worth that people borrow and use for a couple of bucks, then park for the next patron. What I know for sure is that what people need and want will always change and evolve, and markets will always change and evolve to meet the demand. That's enterprise. Ain't it great?
 
To Meridan's (and others') point, there are a couple of things to recognize. One is that technology is changing and evolving fast. Where battery technology moved at a creep for years, it has vastly accelerated now because there's far more incentive than ever in developing it and incorporating it into practical platforms.

The other thing to realize is that we too often tend to look at tomorrow's technology through today's -- or even yesterday's -- eyes. 110 years ago, people scoffed at automobiles because it was hard to find fuel for them away from certain locations, and because automobiles couldn't emulate horses. As it turns out, the first problem was solved much more quickly than might have been expected, and nobody cared about the second. Transportation, and how we thought about it, wasn't dependent on the philosophy of horsemanship. It's easy for us to look at our use of motorcycles - or any IC-engine-based transportation - and assume the next generation will see its use exactly as we see it. When we do so, we're almost certainly wrong.

So where does this leave the future of the motorcycle? I have no idea. Maybe like those bright green bicycles in downtown Ft Worth that people borrow and use for a couple of bucks, then park for the next patron. What I know for sure is that what people need and want will always change and evolve, and markets will always change and evolve to meet the demand. That's enterprise. Ain't it great?

I can't see gas or diesel being replaced anytime soon for pickups and large long haul trucks. Motorcycles? Maybe. It'll likely bankrupt Harley Davidson, though. I mean, who wants a hawg that can't rattle the windows at idle, indeed can't even idle? :lol2:
 
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About Harley --- true dat, and not my problem! :lol2:

About trucks and whatnot -- I totally see your point. I haul a camping trailer around, and don't see any hybrids or EVs on the horizon that can take over that duty. Ditto, the task of hauling heavy cargo point to point.

BUT, I also can't foresee how rapidly technologies will develop to power trucks and tow vehicles. Or, how people's use of changing technologies and newer emerging concepts will revolutionize how cargo hauling or RVing are done.
 
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