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2000 Suzuki SV650 - unable to start :giveup:

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Re: 2000 Suzuki SV650 - unable to start

ctmullet said:
WOOHOO my bike started up on the first try once i changed to the new starter relay. :clap:

Took it out tonight and put some miles on it.

Thanks everyone for all the help and advice.
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Test the old one. I've seen a good disconnect/reconnect clean the terminals enough to allow continuity (that starter relay carries a lot of current). So, you may have two good ones and it is always good to have a spare. If it doesn't work, you're no worse off than you were before.
 
Re: 2000 Suzuki SV650 - unable to start

ctmullet said:
WOOHOO my bike started up on the first try once i changed to the new starter relay. :clap:

Took it out tonight and put some miles on it.
Click to expand...

Needs more miles! :rider:

Very glad that it was a simple fix. :thumb:
 
Johnny Monsoon said:
The arc that is likely to be created when disconnecting the battery can be quite powerful; as powerful as a spark plug spark. Would you apply a spark plug spark to your rectifier? While harnessed energy, which is regulated always has a proper flow, a spark will not, and it'll find its way across whatever it wants to get to ground. Most electronic bits run on 5VDC or less logic (some substantially less, especially with SMT components that are becoming much more mainstream.
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Can you provide a reference about your battery arc? I do agree that a good deal of modern digital electronics uses logic levels in the 0-5VDC range. Surface mount technology in the equipment I work with is also in the same range.
 
wanabeguru said:
Can you provide a reference about your battery arc? I do agree that a good deal of modern digital electronics uses logic levels in the 0-5VDC range. Surface mount technology in the equipment I work with is also in the same range.
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Triboelectric charges (static electricity) have a potential of up to 5K volts, though very little current. The human threshold for feeling a spark is 1500V. The ability to develop a spark from the battery of your bike is substantially higher than that and will be moving much more current.

Any electronics reference will provide this information.

While many of the SMT circuits run on 5VDC, it is becoming much more common to find units that run in the millivolt range; I work with several hundred of these in various systems.

Here's a decent link: http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/03/ARG/dunnihoo.html

If you're working with SMT (or any electronics, really) you should be familiar with ESD safe practices, and you'll find this information there as well.
 
Johnny Monsoon said:
Triboelectric charges (static electricity) have a potential of up to 5K volts, though very little current. The human threshold for feeling a spark is 1500V. The ability to develop a spark from the battery of your bike is substantially higher than that and will be moving much more current.

Any electronics reference will provide this information.

While many of the SMT circuits run on 5VDC, it is becoming much more common to find units that run in the millivolt range; I work with several hundred of these in various systems.

Here's a decent link: http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/03/ARG/dunnihoo.html

If you're working with SMT (or any electronics, really) you should be familiar with ESD safe practices, and you'll find this information there as well.
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Perhaps I stated my need for information incorrectly. How does a BATTERY upon being disconnected from an operational circuit all of a sudden become an electrostatic device? Can you really be talking about the reverse EMF produced when an energized field coil is de-energized? Just wondering as I don't see where a static charge can be produced from the bike's electrical system[even the spark at the plugs is produced from the collapsing field of the coil]
 
wanabeguru said:
Perhaps I stated my need for information incorrectly. How does a BATTERY upon being disconnected from an operational circuit all of a sudden become an electrostatic device? Can you really be talking about the reverse EMF produced when an energized field coil is de-energized? Just wondering as I don't see where a static charge can be produced from the bike's electrical system[even the spark at the plugs is produced from the collapsing field of the coil]
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Electrostatic: A potential at rest.

A battery is essentially an electrostatic device, as is a capacitor. Once a demand is put on them, they allow for electrons to move from their negative side to the positive side.

When any charge potential is developed, no matter how miniscule, there is a potential for immediate discharge. At some point, the charge can overcome the dielectric properties that are keeping the charge static. When this happens, the result is an arc (the electrons free-jumping space to find a path to ground).

That's exactly what happens when you get sparking when you hook up jumper cables or remove battery cables (which is essentially exactly the same thing). As you pull the lead away from the battery, you create a dielectric air barrier. The amperage available from your battery is sufficient to create a spark from the terminal to the cable, which is an arc. The arc is more powerful than the static charge of the battery because it can be up to the full potential of the battery (current flow) released all at one time, just like a quick discharge capacitor. Releasing that amount of energy onto a circuit that is designed to have a regulated flow, and to have various drains for mild variables in voltage and current variables is a great way to fry them.
 
Johnny Monsoon said:
Electrostatic: A potential at rest.

A battery is essentially an electrostatic device, as is a capacitor. Once a demand is put on them, they allow for electrons to move from their negative side to the positive side.

When any charge potential is developed, no matter how miniscule, there is a potential for immediate discharge. At some point, the charge can overcome the dielectric properties that are keeping the charge static. When this happens, the result is an arc (the electrons free-jumping space to find a path to ground).

That's exactly what happens when you get sparking when you hook up jumper cables or remove battery cables (which is essentially exactly the same thing). As you pull the lead away from the battery, you create a dielectric air barrier. The amperage available from your battery is sufficient to create a spark from the terminal to the cable, which is an arc. The arc is more powerful than the static charge of the battery because it can be up to the full potential of the battery (current flow) released all at one time, just like a quick discharge capacitor. Releasing that amount of energy onto a circuit that is designed to have a regulated flow, and to have various drains for mild variables in voltage and current variables is a great way to fry them.
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Again you are assigning static to a CHEMICAL process. I also feel amperage of the source does not create the spark, rather the INTENSITY of the spark. We need to meet at a pie run to have a great discussion about the ins/outs of current flow, sparks, discharges, static, chemical etc. It is a little too far for me to currently ride, however. You deal with ones and zeros, so do I. And we both are well versed in theory. We seem to need more common ground/definitions. I am the sole technician here as well as the manager for our electronics repair department. Oh how I wish for a like minded tech such as yourself to have these kind of discussions. Again, save me a piece of pie, someday I'll get to Texas.
 
;-)
wanabeguru said:
Again you are assigning static to a CHEMICAL process. I also feel amperage of the source does not create the spark, rather the INTENSITY of the spark. We need to meet at a pie run to have a great discussion about the ins/outs of current flow, sparks, discharges, static, chemical etc. It is a little too far for me to currently ride, however. You deal with ones and zeros, so do I. And we both are well versed in theory. We seem to need more common ground/definitions. I am the sole technician here as well as the manager for our electronics repair department. Oh how I wish for a like minded tech such as yourself to have these kind of discussions. Again, save me a piece of pie, someday I'll get to Texas.
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I suspect we're just not communicating our points. Or I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to ask/tell.

I need to get a bike, or at least have Amy make some pies to get a bunch of you out here to Fate. I'm sure we'd get on fine. When I deal with the Navy guys here, they think the USAF guys are wrong about electronics theory, since they fundamentally teach that electrons flow from positive to negative, not from negative to positive. Yet at the end of the day the theories align when it comes to the working end of things, and I suspect that's what's happening here.
 
Yes, great to find the relay problem. But methinks dead battery will haunt him when he least expects it.
 
Jack Giesecke said:
10-4 and +1. I know it's 95 bucks, been there, done that, but it's worthwhile insurance. I'm sure he lost some capacity if it went dead flat.
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That can be measured though; and any good shop should be able to do it for him; or, if he has an multi-meter he can do it himself.
 
Re: 2000 Suzuki SV650 - unable to start

ctmullet said:
WOOHOO my bike started up on the first try once i changed to the new starter relay. :clap:

Took it out tonight and put some miles on it.

Thanks everyone for all the help and advice.
Click to expand...

Reading this tread, I could not help but think of CT in the role of the Progressive MC Insurance comercials.....

"Towels" is my favorite
 
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