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Old 04-17-2017, 02:50 PM   #1
Drop_Center
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 66
Considering PCV and custom tune

Right now I have Dale's supertuner and pipe. I like this bike enough to spend some more cash and make it even better, but does anyone know if Dale's stuff does anything besides the fueling? Or would i even benefit?
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Old 04-17-2017, 04:31 PM   #2
OSU55
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

HS tuner only adds fuel. With a custom map there will be areas where fuel is reduced from the oem map. I've had 3 bikes custom mapped and all had some negative entries. That is why I prefer a PC with custom map over any of the less expensive paths. However, I would be surprised if you noticed much improvement performance wise - probably better mpg -provided the bike runs well as is. I would like to see dyno runs of a HS tuned bike then switched to a PC and custom mapped, as well as mpg comparisons.
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:02 PM   #3
Drop_Center
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

So I take it there isn't any timing changes or factory restrictions taken off?
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:32 AM   #4
NZSpokes
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Just had my ECU flashed and the bikes a monster now.
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:52 AM   #5
OSU55
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Have you reviewed the different tuning stages HS has? What stage did you buy? Since you have his tuner don't you have his settings? The oem restrictions on the Bandit are done through the secondary throttle plates. Just remove them, but the a/f ratio has to be changed to accommodate no plates. They start reducing airflow ~ 7,000 rpm. HS stages 1 and 2 don't change the timing. Not much to be gained by changing it.
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:20 PM   #6
NZSpokes
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSU55 View Post
Have you reviewed the different tuning stages HS has? What stage did you buy? Since you have his tuner don't you have his settings? The oem restrictions on the Bandit are done through the secondary throttle plates. Just remove them, but the a/f ratio has to be changed to accommodate no plates. They start reducing airflow ~ 7,000 rpm. HS stages 1 and 2 don't change the timing. Not much to be gained by changing it.
HS tuner is a crude tool. Flashing you dont need to add abox. Can just turn O2, Pair, all restrictions off. You can also leave the secondry plates in and adjust them for more torque down low.

The 7k rpm dip is timing, nothing to do with fuelling.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:59 AM   #7
OSU55
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by NZSpokes View Post
HS tuner is a crude tool. Flashing you dont need to add abox. Can just turn O2, Pair, all restrictions off. You can also leave the secondry plates in and adjust them for more torque down low.

The 7k rpm dip is timing, nothing to do with fuelling.
Gotta disagree. The dip is caused by the secondaries, not timing, and they are the only real "restriction" on the bandit, except for the oem small airbox intake port and muffler, and the oem fueling. The exh cat is not very restrictive, and the PAIR system doesnt restrict, but removal does get stuff out of the way, reduce wt, and stop popping on decel. Why dont you post your before and after dyno charts for the reflash? Butt dynos arent very accurate.
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:46 AM   #8
Drop_Center
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Dale is a very experienced tuner, I'd just like to know from someone other than him if there's any room for improvement after doing his Airbox, supertune and slip-on mods other than a full system.

What I'd really like to know is if his supertune pro can do any of the things an ECU flash does:

ECU unleashed maps can
ECU Modifications – (Optional per customer request and application)
* Remove Factory Timing Retard
* Remove Throttle Restrictions
* Increased Idle
* Increased Rev Limit
* Remove Speed Limiters (Gear Dependent)
* Reduce Excessive Engine Braking/Improved Deceleration
* Improved Throttle Control & Reaction
* Remove Injector Shut-Off on Deceleration
* Eliminate Factory “Error codes” (ex. exhaust valve, steering damper)
* Improved Fuel Maps
* Improved Ignition Maps
* Velocity Stack Switching Adjustment (Variable Stacks Only)
* Race Fuel Mapping Accommodations

Last edited by Drop_Center; 04-19-2017 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:16 PM   #9
neroneuman
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

HS TFI/EJK are piggyback units. Piggyback units wont be as efficient as Flash tunes.
Flash tunes along with Piggyback is much better than Flash tune alone.

Advantage with TFI/EJK is the tune/settings which you get for free from Dale. His settings are the result of the hours he spent in the dyno with his bike.

Definitely powercommander has more knobs for tuning but its a question of money/time on the dyno.

TFI/EJK or power commanders without custom tune may be a perfect fit for 80% of your bike's requirements. ECU flash will be much better than both of them. But the ECU flash would need to be specific for your bike rather than a generic ECU Flash.

my 0.2c
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:31 PM   #10
NZSpokes
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSU55 View Post
Gotta disagree. The dip is caused by the secondaries, not timing, and they are the only real "restriction" on the bandit, except for the oem small airbox intake port and muffler, and the oem fueling. The exh cat is not very restrictive, and the PAIR system doesnt restrict, but removal does get stuff out of the way, reduce wt, and stop popping on decel. Why dont you post your before and after dyno charts for the reflash? Butt dynos arent very accurate.
Wrong. Dale could not get the dip out. Timing change did. Secondrys on my bike are removed.

First run is with the stock map and the Supertune pro removed. Bike ran better without the Supertune in it.

https://www.facebook.com/brmmotorcyc...99015690260526

Last edited by NZSpokes; 04-19-2017 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:57 PM   #11
Drop_Center
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Does anyone know how much the factory restrictions and timing retaration hold the bike back?

According to ECU unleashed there are restrictions in the ECU that can get rid of.

Last edited by Drop_Center; 04-19-2017 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:49 PM   #12
NZSpokes
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop_Center View Post
Does anyone know how much the factory restrictions and timing retaration hold the bike back?

According to ECU unleashed there are restrictions in the ECU that can get rid of.
A bit of a timing retard in the low gears and the secondry plates close down a bit at high rpm. All easy to adjust with a flash.
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:12 PM   #13
Drop_Center
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Well my secondaries are out but I bought this for low end power, do you think I'd notice a difference with my setup?
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:25 PM   #14
NZSpokes
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop_Center View Post
Well my secondaries are out but I bought this for low end power, do you think I'd notice a difference with my setup?
With a flash you get much more everywhere. That's what I have found. Fuel economy is better as well.

I don't have a pic of my torque curve but its 90ftlb. She runs strong down low.
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:26 PM   #15
Drop_Center
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

So ECU unleashed would be a good place in the states to have it done?

Doesn't seem like too many options out there
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:32 PM   #16
NZSpokes
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop_Center View Post
So ECU unleashed would be a good place in the states to have it done?

Doesn't seem like too many options out there
My guy used a Woolrich? system. Sorry I'm in New Zealand so don't know what you guys have.
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Old 04-21-2017, 06:27 AM   #17
OSU55
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

HS did get the "dip" out with the stage 2 tune, by removing the secondaries and no timing changes. http://www.holeshot.com/suzuki/bandi...250/dynocharts

It appears your reflash gained 4-1/2 hp peak and minimal in other areas? There is really nothing to be gained on the Bandit with a reflash vs secondary removal and a PC. The secondaries are the only real restriction. Provided there is a Tuning Link center one can get to, the PC with custom map is really the best. Yes it's ~$300 for the mapping on top of the cost of the PC, but you can then tweak the map to suit, which I have done on all of my bikes. Those tweaks have been at low rpm low throttle to improve throttle pick up and reducing A/F in the cruise range to improve mpg for range.
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:44 PM   #18
NZSpokes
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by OSU55 View Post
HS did get the "dip" out with the stage 2 tune, by removing the secondaries and no timing changes. http://www.holeshot.com/suzuki/bandi...250/dynocharts

It appears your reflash gained 4-1/2 hp peak and minimal in other areas? There is really nothing to be gained on the Bandit with a reflash vs secondary removal and a PC. The secondaries are the only real restriction. Provided there is a Tuning Link center one can get to, the PC with custom map is really the best. Yes it's ~$300 for the mapping on top of the cost of the PC, but you can then tweak the map to suit, which I have done on all of my bikes. Those tweaks have been at low rpm low throttle to improve throttle pick up and reducing A/F in the cruise range to improve mpg for range.
You can do what you like to your bike. But mine with the supertune was a fat pig everywhere and too lean at 5% throttle. Ran better with it out. So you can either just ride it or get it flashed. Mine is now smooth and very strong. It would take my superbike on down low for sure.

Sportrider magazine seems to get a different curve to the Holeshot ones.http://www.sportrider.com/project-su...0fa-gsx-essive
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:14 AM   #19
Tonis_T
 
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Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by NZSpokes View Post
You can do what you like to your bike. But mine with the supertune was a fat pig everywhere and too lean at 5% throttle. Ran better with it out. So you can either just ride it or get it flashed. Mine is now smooth and very strong. It would take my superbike on down low for sure.

Sportrider magazine seems to get a different curve to the Holeshot ones.http://www.sportrider.com/project-su...0fa-gsx-essive
This is holeshot tune in the magazine but with old dobek TFI. He got the dip out from stage 2 tune when he started to use EFI supertune pro. However the dip is still there with stage one.
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Old 04-22-2017, 07:42 AM   #20
OSU55
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Missouri
Posts: 12
Re: Considering PCV and custom tune

Quote:
Originally Posted by NZSpokes View Post
You can do what you like to your bike. But mine with the supertune was a fat pig everywhere and too lean at 5% throttle. Ran better with it out. So you can either just ride it or get it flashed. Mine is now smooth and very strong. It would take my superbike on down low for sure.

Sportrider magazine seems to get a different curve to the Holeshot ones.http://www.sportrider.com/project-su...0fa-gsx-essive
Glad you like the reflash. I'll just ride mine with a PC-V & custom map that has no dip in the curve, courtesy of removing the secondaries.
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