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AWD KTM (Revit #95)

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M38A1

M38A1

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A KTM based all wheel drive motorcycle.... :ponder:

Source:
http://www.gizmag.com/revit-two-wheel-drive-super-enduro/37588/

When the system is active it allows the front to freewheel until the rear has lost 80 percent of its traction. Then a one-way clutch installed in the front wheel hub disengages, allowing the transfer of motion to the front until the rear finds grip again.

pictures


.
 
M38A1 said:
A KTM based all wheel drive motorcycle.... :ponder:

Source:
http://www.gizmag.com/revit-two-wheel-drive-super-enduro/37588/

When the system is active it allows the front to freewheel until the rear has lost 80 percent of its traction. Then a one-way clutch installed in the front wheel hub disengages, allowing the transfer of motion to the front until the rear finds grip again.

pictures


.
Click to expand...
We had one for sale on here earlier this year. The Christini:chug:
 
I'm pretty certain that one of the credits give to the photographer, Gregor, was (one of?) the first people to convert the Christini system to that KTM bike bike platform. Gregor had a 950 Adventure that he partnered with that fabricator, Chris to build up. The entire thread is on advrider.com. It was crazy long, and really interesting from a mechanical-experimental point of view. I got sucked into the thread and actually read most of the entire 20+ pages.

I know the nice thing for me to do would be to find that thread. But I don't have the time at the moment to do so.

Later,
CJB
 
I recall Yamaha tried two wheeled drive on the R1, interesting but went no further than the prototype.
 
Saw the Christini's at Last Man Standing some years ago. They were cool, but David Knight proved that mad skills beat cool new tech. Still, it's all interesting stuff and I'd sure like to take a skilless ride on one.
 
I think it was the 2013 Erzberg race on TV where I saw a Christini all wheel drive for the first time. There was a little gawking done over it by the announcers. I don't think it made the full course, not even to Carl's Diner, where it would have been the most fun to watch.

Yeah it seems that power to the rear wheel alone gets the job done just fine, just as it is with bicycles.

Maybe it should get used on a Harley or some cruiser, where weight isn't considered a disadvantage?
 
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Johnny L said:
Oops my bad...looks like Christini's have finished Erzberg at least once!
http://www.dirtrider.com/features/news/141_0806_christini_riders_erzberg/

So why this tech not become more common I don't know beyond that motorcyclists are just too practical, or traditional, or skills-focused, or something.
Click to expand...

That was a great article. Some cool stuff for those 2 American riders! Though it took me a second to notice that the article was from 09'.

I'm not entirely sure why its not more popular. I have a feeling that motorcycle riding has been so defined as a rear-wheel driven vehicle, and all of the techniques (and maintenance, cost, complexity, reliability) have been well vetted. Thus is doesn't leave as much of an opening for something new that may just be marginal. However, I'd think at the upper levels of competition 'marginal' improvements would be highly sought after. Hmmmm.... might also have something to do with sponsorship and paychecks. If your a KTM rider, then you will rider what they offer...and that ain't 2 wheel driven bikes.

As for me, as a gear geek, I just like to see the concept applied in various ways. The KTM 950 Adv I mentioned went thru TONZ of mods in order to make it work. I love the hunt for making the uncommon happen.

Later,
CJB
 
What's a Christini cost? Add that to all the bits and pieces someone will buy for their new bike and I bet that's a pricey bike that doesn't go much faster for the average rider on their normal riding. That money will be better spent on the new bike they'll get in two years. :D
 
Johnny L said:
Hmm maybe that's the core issue, that the gains realized are too small to warrant the pains?
Click to expand...

I believe they had to create the mods because Chirstini didn't actually offer a option for that model. I REALLY wish I could find that thread. It was a great read.


Someone mentioned the bicycle version. When I owned the bicycle shop, we had one come in for a component upgrade. We had the bike for over a week and completely went thru it (but not the 2 wheel mechanism). IMHO, on a bicycle when the 'engine' is putting out 1/2 HP at best, the added weight and drag really is not worth it. How often do I really need *that* kind of assistance?....predominantly when I'm climbing steep loose stuff. But in those situations, the front wheel is being "lofted" up over stuff, or is already so unweighted that the extra 'drive' is not all that helpful. Truth be told, testing it around the shop, I couldn't tell ANYTHING. But it was super cool engineering and to gawk at.

Later,
CJB
 
CBaron said:
I still have not been able to locate the advrider thread but did find this for your viewing pleasure.

Later,
CJB
Click to expand...

HERE"S THE THREAD on Advrider.com

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=461267

*WARNING*- if you are a tech-bike-gear-mod geek, please plan accordingly before clicking on the link above. Its now at 90 pgs, and last fall I dug thru every since one of them. I bet I killed hours a day going thru it over the course of a few weeks. I've been interested in the KTM Adv bikes and when I ran across the thread, I couldn't stop. The bike owner begins with a tear-down, then build it back up in a search for more horsepower. Dyno runs, velocity stack, carb changes give way to a quest for 2-wheel drive. All of this occurs as he decides to move from NY to Oregon.

Later,
CJB
 
CBaron said:
predominantly when I'm climbing steep loose stuff. But in those situations, the front wheel is being "lofted" up over stuff, or is already so unweighted that the extra 'drive' is not all that helpful
Click to expand...

This was a lot of what we also witnessed at LMS. Not enough situations where the rear wheel was slipping that the front had adequate traction to pull the bike along. Seems it's VERY good in a very small amount of situations.
 
gixxerjasen said:
This was a lot of what we also witnessed at LMS. Not enough situations where the rear wheel was slipping that the front had adequate traction to pull the bike along. Seems it's VERY good in a very small amount of situations.
Click to expand...


Ok so I didn't heed my own warning and got sucked back into that thread! :eat:

I just ran across this description of how the bike works in a 2 wheel drift, side-out loose turn. *This* sounds like it could be useful in certain performance situations. But then again...I can't think of any specifically. What kind of racing is that? Flat track? Hmmmm....sound more like an expensive mod to make the avg guy feel like a stud kicking it out in loose turns while his friends watch with envy.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25213545&postcount=1332
 
CBaron said:
...the front wheel is being "lofted" up over stuff, or is already so unweighted that the extra 'drive' is not all that helpful...
Click to expand...

You bring up a good point.

The thing I'm wondering is that for maximum power and control, you want BOTH wheels to keep traction when needed...so techniques to bring more traction to the front wheel matter regardless of whether it's also capable of delivering power (e.g., leaning over the bars). The trad bike setup still offers that.

Thinking about 4 wheel AWD vehicles, where the possibility to manhandle the vehicle over obstacles is impossible, having drive on all wheels certainly offers an advantage you simply don't need for a dirtbike. But for, say, an 800# cruiser, maybe front wheel drive could make that sort of bike more versatile?

Maybe Christini needs to run a KTM1290 from Madrid to compete at Erzberg, finish it and return, and show the adventure bike crowd what a REAL adventure could mean? :rider:

...I'm sure I'm 5 years or so behind any meaningful discussion on AWD, but I can't belp wondering....
 
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