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AZ Trip - Advice Requested

Funny, one of my college friends lives in Skull Valley.

I did a quick run out to Phoenix at Easter this year. I'll dig up the route.
 
and I'm not even sure if they're open that early. It's high & snowy over on that side.

It's normally open around May 15th, but a late snow storm could change that. With everything else you have to choose from, and a limited time schedule, I wouldn't even consider it for this trip.
 
Are Monument Valley and Canyon de Chelly the kind of places that require a whole day each? Half a day? And hour or two? I don't expect we'll be doing any significant trail walking, just getting to vistas and back.
 
Wow, great article and great picture, Jason. Thanks. That particular loop is a given for this trip. I've driven the exact route in the past, but anticipate it'll be a lot more fun on two wheels than four.
 
Are Monument Valley and Canyon de Chelly the kind of places that require a whole day each? Half a day? And hour or two? I don't expect we'll be doing any significant trail walking, just getting to vistas and back.

It all depends upon what YOU want to do. MV can be a quick view from the View Hotel parking lot (yes, it costs to get in), or have lunch/breakfast inside the hotel and admire the scenery through the large picture windows while you eat. Early breakfast is not advised due to the sun being in your face.

CdC is the same. You can ride the Rim in a couple of hours and see the basics from the various scenic stops.

I haven't been THROUGH MV or CdC since 1980. I've only visited the outskirts and the rim on my trips since then.

When you're at MV you might want to cross the highway and check out the museum at Goulding's Lodge. Gouldings is the place where John Ford / John Wayne and other stars would stay when they were filming in MV. I stayed in one of the original cabins that had been built in the 1930s, but sadly, are no longer there. It's a great place to stay and then photograph the sunrise.
 

Arrrgh...

First Car & Driver did a road test on 191 a few months ago, and now Rider is spreading the word even more.

Don't believe a word they print. The road is terrible. Horrible. Full of traffic. You don't want to ride this. Stay away.
:trust:

:rofl:

That's actually a good article and very truthful to the experience. The photo with the caption of views into NM is misleading. I actually stopped where that National Forest sign is and took a photo. That IS in New Mexico.

Alma has a good bit of history. The town was home of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid's infamous Wild Bunch gang for a short period.

The loop is actually done quite often by those of us who live out here. We tend to stay in Alpine, ride down the border on the NM side, and then come back up on the Arizona side. At least for me, riding curves uphill is a lot more comfortable and fun than riding them downhill.
 
:tab IF you are on a dual sport, the stretch between Alpine and Alma is a LOT more fun if you run down Blue River Rd., to FS 281. Then run 281 South along the Blue River to Pueblo Park Rd. This runs East to the border and becomes 232. Stay on that all the way to US 180. There is one water crossing, but we did it on big bikes, in the rain, and had no problems. The run South along the river is really nice. The run up over the mountains on Pueblo Rd. is also really nice with some great views. It is all big bike friendly.
 
Looks like we have the itinerary mostly set for this trip. I'll be meeting my buddy in Williams AZ on Sunday, May 13. We'll do a day trip to the South Rim, and some riding down through Sedona and Oak Creek Canyon. Then we'll base out of Payson for a couple of days, and do some nice day loops. After that, we head east to Alpine. We'll spend a day over around Glenwood & Mogollon & the Catwalk area. And finally, we'll do the big loop that takes us into NM, south from Glenwood, and north to Clifton and up the Devil's Highway.

I have a couple of questions about one of the roads between Payson & Alpine. I was taking a very up-close look at the road, first using Google Map satellite view, and then the camera's-eye view.

First, I found this from the satellite view on Hwy 191, somewhere west of Alpine. It looks for all the world like a cattle guard. But if it is, it also looks as if the rails run parallel to the highway, rather than perpendicular. If that's what it is, it would be a bit problematic for motorcycle tires. Anybody have any idea what I'm actually looking at?

39897018282_a9eb6fc924_b.jpg
cattle guard by Tim Shelfer, on Flickr

Second, I have a question about Hwy 273. The camera view show it as becoming a dirt road just south of Sunrise Lake. But the satellite view shows it as being a paved 2-lane road all the way through. Any insights about this road?

39897018372_311dccb9f9_b.jpg
AZ map by Tim Shelfer, on Flickr
 
Tim you cattle guard is indeed a cattle guard i thought it look familiar i have installed a few of those but were in heavy truck traffic areas used for drainage.

If you will go and look at 191 west out of alpine AZ on goggle maps and find three forks road and you can see that in place at that intersection.

Hope this helps
 
That's exactly what I needed to see, thanks!!! So now that I see it better, it appears to be just a typical, if somewhat rough & widely spaced cattle guard, when I look at it from the camera view. From the bird's-eye view, the cross rails weren't showing up at all - all I could see was the support tracks underneath, which run parallel to the road. I didn't think Arizona would build a death trap for motorcyclists, but you just never know.
 
The last and only time I rode into Mogollon the road looked like it had been bombed. Check locally before you ride in, hopefully is has been repaired. The lodge at Hannigans is nice and the food was very good, I haven't been there in years but at the time it was very good. I have stayed at the Sportsmans motel (very basic) and Ti Wee Wee lodge north of Alpine which is much better. I have caught snow as late as early June at Hannigans but it was only for a mile or so at the highest point on 191.
The road across the White Mtn. Apace Rez that goes past Sunrise ends at Alpine and has been paved.
Hope I have been of some help.
John
 
Tim, If you ever want to meet and compare notes or ask questions I live in Granbury not that far away.
Going to be down for a bit (not long I hope) due to orthoscopic knee surgery. So helping you plan would be fun.
John
 
:lol2: I've been up and down that road a few times since the early 70s and it's always been that way. Glad to know they haven't "spoiled" it with new pavement. Hard to believe people actually live up there.

I appreciate that offer, Zonie, and I'll certainly keep it in mind.
 
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OK, folks. My planned Arizona trip is about 2 months out. I'm looking for some specific route advice. I plan to get from Payson over to Alpine by following the map posted here. My problem is - no matter how many waypoints I plug in, my GPS does not want take me SE on 273, and absolutely refuses to take me north on 261. I can't find any problems with either highway. Can anybody shed any light on these 2 roads?

25958908757_63efe951fe_c.jpg
AZ map by Tim Shelfer, on Flickr
 
OK, folks. My planned Arizona trip is about 2 months out. I'm looking for some specific route advice. I plan to get from Payson over to Alpine by following the map posted here. My problem is - no matter how many waypoints I plug in, my GPS does not want take me SE on 273, and absolutely refuses to take me north on 261. I can't find any problems with either highway. Can anybody shed any light on these 2 roads?

25958908757_63efe951fe_c.jpg
AZ map by Tim Shelfer, on Flickr

Those roads are on the White Mtn. Apache reservation and are tribal roads so maybe that is why they don't show up? I have never been on either of those roads even though I used to live in Show Low.
As a FYI the Zia chapter of the AMCA is having a cross New Mexico ride starting on May 18th on Clovis and ending in Alpine on the 19th.
 
Hmm, they may be, but they still have Arizona highway numbers.

I've tricked the GPS into routing me through on 273 to the 261 cutoff. That's where it really gets weird, though. I've put half a dozen bread crumbs along 261 and my Garmin just doesn't want to connect the dots.

Hopefully, Texas T will see this post & chime in. He lives right in the neighborhood.
 
PS - We'll be in Alpine on the 18th & 19th, riding around Glenwood NM and doing the loop of 191. No doubt we'll run into a few of them. Glad I already made my motel reservations.
 
Tim, I had to add a bunch of points, but made it work. I'm attaching the route segment so you can see. I was thinking it might be because of season closures and Garmin was routing around because of that, but I had it off and still had an issue.
 

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  • Show Low Regional Airport to Reserve Airport.GPX
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Thanks, Rusty.

Without the right subscriptions, a Garmin on its own isn't smart enough to route around weather closings.Actually, Google Maps is, and it doesn't have any problems with the route.

So I take it you rode those two roads & there were no issues, nonpaved areas, closures? I know from looking at some Google Earth images that a large part of 273 was apparently gutted for complete rebuilding within the past few years, but other sources show it nicely paved all the way.
 
I have a clarification post about 261 and 273 on the AZ Beemers board right now. As soon as I get an answer I'll repost it over here. I "think" they are both paved but I haven't ridden them so I don't want to steer you wrong.
 
Thanks, Rusty.

Without the right subscriptions, a Garmin on its own isn't smart enough to route around weather closings.Actually, Google Maps is, and it doesn't have any problems with the route.

So I take it you rode those two roads & there were no issues, nonpaved areas, closures? I know from looking at some Google Earth images that a large part of 273 was apparently gutted for complete rebuilding within the past few years, but other sources show it nicely paved all the way.

No, I haven't ridden. There is a chance I've driven them, but that would be close to 30 years ago.

I just got into Basecamp and forced it to route on those roads. Each had a small segment that the software really didn't want to go on. I'm wondering if it is dirt right there or something. With enough shaping points I made it route.
 
Yeah, that's kind of what I found. In fact, my Garmin still wants to route me off of 261, out onto a FR road to the west, then back. Can't find anything on Google Earth, but it's like there's a piece of highway that's just missing as far as Garmin is concerned.

Oh well, Texas T is gonna check that out via his BMW connection & we'll have the definitive answer.
 
Both roads are now fully paved, and both are currently closed for the winter. I would anticipate them opening up mid-April if not sooner as we have had a very light snowfall this year. I had some flurries from Heber to the Rim yesterday, and there's still patches of snow here and there along that route but mainly in the shade under the trees.

A tiny bit of snow flurry yesterday afternoon in Show Low for just a matter of a couple of minutes.
 
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