Did you notice that 100cc boost just above 5-6K or all throughout, bottom end too?
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How to get the most power with stock exhaust?
- Thread starter Drop_Center
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Did you notice that 100cc boost just above 5-6K or all throughout, bottom end too?
Knobby
0
Master mechanic of what? Golf carts?
I'm not looking to go faster, I want the bike to feel as Suzuki intended, not the EPA
I'm not looking to go faster, I want the bike to feel as Suzuki intended, not the EPA
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The guy knows what he's talking about. Everything comes down to power to weight ratio when it comes to moving the bike down the road quicker. Losing weight either for the rider or the bike is free power.
You can get the Bandit to run just as it was intended to without any stages, changes to the exhaust or other doodads. A good state of tune is the foundation for designed performance. That means valves, throttle body sync, good plugs, fresh fluids, setting the suspension just right, clean air and fuel filters and so on.
Given that, your Bandit will run as Susuki designed it to run and you might be amazed at how well it does that. If it isn't running right, somewhere along the line, one or more parts of the tune aren't up to snuff.
When you're told flashing the ecu doesn't do much the meaning is clear, it doesn't do much for power but that is the small part of performance. Smoothness, good clean throttle response is where its at.
Then, drop some weight and little changes like that give a far bigger bang for the buck and any nicely machined part or dongle.
Knobby
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A thoughtful and intelligent response. I fear it will be wasted though. Come to think of it, the person I'm referring to is pretty decent at golf too now that he has time to focus on it. Golf was the only thing I could shade him on in the old days.
Cheers
K
Cheers
K
That's overwhelming false. If it weren't for the EPA the Bandit wouldn't have secondaries, PAIR, cat converter, a rocket launcher for an exhaust pipe or super-lean Fi settings.
The Bandit works just fine in stock trim and there's not a single thing wrong with not laying a finger on the things that choke it up to pass emission (and stop kidding yourself that's the only reason that junk is there) but it's nothing like it would be of if the EPA didn't have everyone by the balls.
It also wouldn't be a 1250 either, the only reason they keep upping the cc's is to keep up with the standards getting stricter and stricter.
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Your OP started out with trying to get more power. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with the Bandit. It runs just fine when properly tuned. Some people can get that done, others can't. Its a fact that if you don't start with a good tune, nothing else you do is going to give you optimum performance.
All bikes have cats and/or other emissions control systems, development which costs money can deal with all of it. The Bandit is a budget bike and it was designed to be just that.
The engine displacement has little to do with the EPA. There are smaller displacement bikes that will stomp on the Bandit no matter what you do to it and they have to follow the same EPA rules so that is a non-starter.
If you aren't happy with the bike as it is you can throw money into it and make it into something else or much easier, just get a bike that does what you want.
Add it up, by the time you finish with the various stages, you have a 130+ hp Bandit and have spent about $6000 grand getting there (engine mods, suspensions seats, etc), plus what it cost to get the bike. Nothing wrong with that either, to each their own but in stock form the Bandit can be made to perform like it's supposed to.
One of the reasons add-ons get put on bikes is because the bike wasn't ever really tuned or set up right to start with.
All bikes have cats and/or other emissions control systems, development which costs money can deal with all of it. The Bandit is a budget bike and it was designed to be just that.
The engine displacement has little to do with the EPA. There are smaller displacement bikes that will stomp on the Bandit no matter what you do to it and they have to follow the same EPA rules so that is a non-starter.
If you aren't happy with the bike as it is you can throw money into it and make it into something else or much easier, just get a bike that does what you want.
Add it up, by the time you finish with the various stages, you have a 130+ hp Bandit and have spent about $6000 grand getting there (engine mods, suspensions seats, etc), plus what it cost to get the bike. Nothing wrong with that either, to each their own but in stock form the Bandit can be made to perform like it's supposed to.
One of the reasons add-ons get put on bikes is because the bike wasn't ever really tuned or set up right to start with.
power vs ROI
Not sure on the Holeshot pipe, but I've read several reports that the Delkevic can is surprisingly... "modest"? Apparently the stock double-wall header and cat do some muffling upstream of the pipe.
Agreed on the B1250 powerband -- the stock torque curve does not seem to penalize short shifting.
Personally, I bought mine as an appliance, and I've gotten my money's worth out of it after nearly five years of commuting. On one hand, it’s worth so little on paper (insurance, trade-in) that it kinda doesn’t make sense to spend ANY money on it.
On the other hand, I could justify sprucing it up for a few bucks -- though I’m certainly not going Stage 2 ($$). Unlike the OP, I’d be more apt to start with the can since that’s apparently pretty heavy. (Plus I usually shift at 4K, so it’s almost too quiet.)
And when my gaze strays toward temptation (FZ-07/09, GSX-1000S), I suddenly remember how cheap my insurance is right now.
Not sure on the Holeshot pipe, but I've read several reports that the Delkevic can is surprisingly... "modest"? Apparently the stock double-wall header and cat do some muffling upstream of the pipe.
Agreed on the B1250 powerband -- the stock torque curve does not seem to penalize short shifting.
Personally, I bought mine as an appliance, and I've gotten my money's worth out of it after nearly five years of commuting. On one hand, it’s worth so little on paper (insurance, trade-in) that it kinda doesn’t make sense to spend ANY money on it.
On the other hand, I could justify sprucing it up for a few bucks -- though I’m certainly not going Stage 2 ($$). Unlike the OP, I’d be more apt to start with the can since that’s apparently pretty heavy. (Plus I usually shift at 4K, so it’s almost too quiet.)
And when my gaze strays toward temptation (FZ-07/09, GSX-1000S), I suddenly remember how cheap my insurance is right now.
Like this?
I tweek them because I can. It's a full on hobby for me plus I like my stuff wired tight when I travel. To each his own certainly applys.
BTW the Yosh R-77 with the Db insert is just right. Mellow jello till you pin it.
The way I see it, I was about to buy a new 2016 for $9500. Instead I got a used '08 with 4500 miles for 5K. I got the best suspension you can buy, comfort mods and $900 at holeshot for a stage 2. I'm still not at what a new one would have cost me.
Not sure where the $6,000 figure came from? I've got a ripping bike now that still cost me half of what a new 2016 FJR1300ES would been. Happy camper here.
Not sure where the $6,000 figure came from? I've got a ripping bike now that still cost me half of what a new 2016 FJR1300ES would been. Happy camper here.
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Yes the $6000 has me rechecking my expenditure as well. I've got 125 rear wheel hp with most of the mods mentioned and even with a complete new AU$2,500 Leading Link front end (sidecar setup) I'm a fair way short of that dollar figure.
That's crazy, gotta get those suspender working right. That's the most important part!
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- McKinless
Yep, you really get some startled looks lifting the front wheel on a Bandit sidecar 
Sorry, that Bandit you have isn't even in the same league as the new FJR. There are many ways to get what you like, two ways are adding stuff on or getting it designed in and built that way from the start. Adding on often gives you improvement in individual areas but they rarely match up to a completely designed in bike.
The $6000 is easy to get to and go over. When counting money put in first thing that happens is forgetting actual costs and rounding down. Almost everyone does it. Nothing wrong with it.
Congrats on making it as you like.
Seems it always comes back to horsepower. 125 is nothing to brag about. HP is such a small part of the pucture but it does sell lots of add on parts.
DaveC
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If there are any stock air box mods, do those. Usually they don't cost anything and well give you a better across the range increase. Stock cans are heavy, so you well get better acceleration due to weight loss. Spend the money on suspension upgrades, you can tell a difference when it is planted, not to mushy and not to stiff.
I'm aware they're not in the same league, I owned an AE and it was like steering an elephant in stock trim compared to my 1250.
The reason I'm so happy is with a big V-stream the only thing I feel I'm lacking are the bells and whistles (definitely a huge drawback) and the shaft. Aside from that it rips around corners like no FJR ever could and doesn't even give up that much on the highway. I'll own another one someday but only when I'm too old to take risks like I do now.
I bought a used 07 Bandit. It had a Dale Walker muffler and fork Brace. After I got it home I found a PC3 under the seat. It was in a default setting. I used a Delkevic header system, pinched the O2 sensor wire, removed the 2nd butterflies, enlarged the air box and K/N filter. I had it dyno'd-125HP and 84TQ. My Brother rode it for 10 days on our trip to Glacier Park. He was getting 56mpg @65mph. He got 60mpg in the Park. We did some high speed riding (80-90mph-corrected) across a lonely road in WY and he got 43mpg. The Bandit responds quite well to tuning. My suspension is stock.
Bandit's head pipes have a smaller ID compared to Delkevic head pipes. Suzuki choked the intake and exhaust to keep the power under 100HP.
Removing the very hot Catalytic Converter made the Bike more enjoyable in heavy traffic.
I talked to Ivan (performanceproducts.com) to see if he had a fuel cutoff device he designed for the GSXR's. He does not have one, but he would design one if 300 Bandit owners said they would buy one (to pay for R/D). My Bike is nasty in lower gears when I close the throttle. In higher gears closing the throttle makes good use of Engine Braking.
Bandit's head pipes have a smaller ID compared to Delkevic head pipes. Suzuki choked the intake and exhaust to keep the power under 100HP.
Removing the very hot Catalytic Converter made the Bike more enjoyable in heavy traffic.
I talked to Ivan (performanceproducts.com) to see if he had a fuel cutoff device he designed for the GSXR's. He does not have one, but he would design one if 300 Bandit owners said they would buy one (to pay for R/D). My Bike is nasty in lower gears when I close the throttle. In higher gears closing the throttle makes good use of Engine Braking.
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I bought my 2016 stock and it ran like crap. Ran out of breath at 6,800 rpms and surged at low rpms. Throttle response was lousy being slow to throttle input. All that changed with Dale Walker’s Holeshot Stage 2 with full exhaust. Much more power and it is linear, predictable and smooth. No more low rpm surging either. Would have never kept the bike if without the changes. BTW, the sloppy throttle response was due to the slow servo motor on the secondary throttle blades which I removed and the surging was caused by a lean epa compliant AFR that the O2 lambda sensor regulated during light load - closed loop operation.