questions about jacket armor and helmet length of life

I have two questions.
First: I have a Tourmaster jacket, relatively new ( 1 year or two), in which the shoulder, elbow and forearm armor has just disintegrated. Little crumbles of black junk. The back armor is fine, but that is it. The jacket is very nice, wasn't cheap...but is cheap. The jacket has been kept well, not mistreated. Is this a common occurrence?
Second: Just how long is a helmet safe for? I know this topic has been discussed over and over...but what is the average for a mid priced helmet?

Yes the armor that many jackets come with will do this. Get a new set. The replacements are cheap to very expensive, but most of the better stuff lasts longer, and more expensive isn't always better. Not really a big deal, but comes as a surprise to many, you aren't alone.

Helmets, well there is a can of worms, but the SNELL foundation and many of the major manufacturers recommend 3-5 years depending on brand and use.
Some of the high end helmet makers give a little more shelf life, a couple of years IIRC.

After 3-5 years a helmet has been through a lot. Things start to deteriorate and rust. The newer are usually "better" as they use more modern components and safety findings when making them.

YMMV

The standard recommendation for replacing a helmet is every five years. Whether the helmet is worn on a regular basis or not, the polystyrene aka stryrofoam within the helmet loses its ability to absorb shock. In Texas that can be accelerated if you store your helmets in the garage. I'm a near daily rider and can wear out a helmet in about three years. At that point, new cheek pads and helmet liner are not able to restore the original fit of the helmet.

Another question: Is there anybody recycling these things so they don't go in landfills?

Helmet standard from DOT and SNell is 5 years from date of manufacture.. Every DOT approved helmet has a born on date sticker on the inside normally under the comfort padding.

The "can of worms" is only opened by folks with no crash data, no knowledge of the chemicals and man made components that go into making the helmet, no knowledge of designs of the helmet, no manufacturing knowledge, no research in the effects of pollutants, UV light, sweat, body oils ect the helmet is exposed to, no research using X Ray machine or sonic testing.

Your helmet may be good for use after 5 years,,6, 8, even 10 years.... the best way to tell is to wear it in a crash and find out.. if it works it was good, if it fails, it should have been replaced IAW the nationally recognized standards of both the manufactures and independent safety organizations that do not sell or accept monies from helmet manufactures.

Windsong said:

...I have a Tourmaster jacket, relatively new ( 1 year or two), in which the shoulder, elbow and forearm armor has just disintegrated. Little crumbles of black junk. The back armor is fine, but that is it. The jacket is very nice, wasn't cheap...but is cheap. The jacket has been kept well, not mistreated. Is this a common occurrence? ...

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I bought a Tourmaster Epic jacket back in 2010 and it has seen lots of heavy use. Thrown in the washer probably 50 times and the last dozen times or more without removing the molded armor only the back panel. Sun faded but otherwise in great shape and I love the jacket so about a year ago bought a NOS one off Ebay as model was already discontinued. Stored it in my closet waiting for the day my old jacket developed problems which still hasn't happened. But now I keep a set of riding gear out of state so started using the new jacket. Second long ride and left elbow armor disintegrated into pieces much like you described above. I still have a 5" section of it acting as a forearm pad but question how strong it is. This happened on the new jacket before ever washing it and before any falls also. Thinking a safety issue on a relatively new jacket would be addressed I emailed Tourmaster, they did email back but only to supply the part number of the damaged piece and advised it was on backorder for 30-60 days. Sounds like a bad batch of rubberized armor pieces creating a backorder demand for replacements that they are not addressing as a defect.

_

SilverBullet said:

I bought a Tourmaster Epic jacket back in 2010 and it has seen lots of heavy use. Thrown in the washer probably 50 times and the last dozen times or more without removing the molded armor only the back panel. Sun faded but otherwise in great shape and I love the jacket so about a year ago bought a NOS one off Ebay as model was already discontinued. Stored it in my closet waiting for the day my old jacket developed problems which still hasn't happened. But now I keep a set of riding gear out of state so started using the new jacket. Second long ride and left elbow armor disintegrated into pieces much like you described above. I still have a 5" section of it acting as a forearm pad but question how strong it is. This happened on the new jacket before ever washing it and before any falls also. Thinking a safety issue on a relatively new jacket would be addressed I emailed Tourmaster, they did email back but only to supply the part number of the damaged piece and advised it was on backorder for 30-60 days. Sounds like a bad batch of rubberized armor pieces creating a backorder demand for replacements that they are not addressing as a defect.

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Follow up on this post:
After another month of use now every piece of my armor was basically junk like Windsong stated in his first post. So a nice email was sent off to Tourmaster further explaining my situation and I received a quick reply back and a package in the mail a few days later with a complete set of new armor. New armor is not the black rubbery type but combo hard shell, mesh and padding. Tight fit in my older model jacket but they did go in and I have a new safely armored jacket again. I suggest anyone contact them directly if they have this issue as I feel this bad batch of rubber armor is a known problem to them.

Every company has problems at one time or another. How they handle these problems sets them apart from the competition. Tourmaster stepped up to the plate and made it right for me without forcing me to jump through hoops. Excellent company!

_

Just ran into the same thing on my older Power Trip jacket. Just emailed them, so we shall see what they do or say about it. If that doesn't work - anybody know where to get replacement armor?

Well - just found a full set of armor available on Amazon for $30.

Windsong said:

Second: Just how long is a helmet safe for? I know this topic has been discussed over and over...but what is the average for a mid priced helmet?

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What Arai has to say about helmets. Life is discussed a couple of minutes in. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovd3KGu6BgU"]Arai[/ame]

SilverBullet said:

I bought a Tourmaster Epic jacket back in 2010 and it has seen lots of heavy use. Thrown in the washer probably 50 times and the last dozen times or more without removing the molded armor only the back panel. _

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I also have the Epic. It is a great jacket and versatile until temps hit around 80 and with the vents open, it is too warm. I switch to full mesh during that time. Folks say there are full textile riding jackets that work well from 32 to 109 degrees, but I have yet to find them. I use a cooling vest with the mesh and it works pretty well.

Washing the jacket that often may weaken the fibers. The excessive washing may also increase the decay of the rubber if your using laundry soap.

RB

mr-roboto said:

Folks say there are full textile riding jackets that work well from 32 to 109 degrees, but I have yet to find them. I use a cooling vest with the mesh and it works pretty well.



RB

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I agree on the washing of the jacket having negative effects after many washes.

I just picked up a Tourmaster Flex. Overall, it seems pretty versatile. It's a full mesh jacket, but has a solid outer liner that zips on for cooler weather and then you can take it one step further with the quilted inner liner if the temp drops further. I figure that paired with my heated jacket I can cover a pretty broad range of temps. We'll see how it works out this winter.

mr-roboto said:

I also have the Epic. It is a great jacket and versatile until temps hit around 80 and with the vents open, it is too warm. I switch to full mesh during that time. Folks say there are full textile riding jackets that work well from 32 to 109 degrees, but I have yet to find them. I use a cooling vest with the mesh and it works pretty well.

Washing the jacket that often may weaken the fibers. The excessive washing may also increase the decay of the rubber if your using laundry soap.

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Xdriver said:

I agree on the washing of the jacket having negative effects after many washes.

I just picked up a Tourmaster Flex. Overall, it seems pretty versatile. It's a full mesh jacket, but has a solid outer liner that zips on for cooler weather and then you can take it one step further with the quilted inner liner if the temp drops further. I figure that paired with my heated jacket I can cover a pretty broad range of temps. We'll see how it works out this winter.

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I've used mine in 109 degree weather and it's fine for me. Open all vents, use heat out wicking undergarment and you have a quasi swamp cooling system. A mesh jacket will not operate for you this way and you'll get hit with the hot air. Also just allowing yourself to acclimate to the heat is a big benefit. I'm not an A/C fan and have lived in many tropical climates and adapted (Houston included). My body starts sweating at an earlier point than most which is what keeps my body core regulated properly. I also use the jacket off road, even slow moving low airflow conditions in the forest, etc. and it doesn't overheat me. For winter I close all vents and zip in the liner if needed and have never ever gotten cold. My hands are always the weakest link in winter. I don't carry a rain suit either. Zip up all vents, roll out the integrated hood, wear under my helmet and jacket is nearly waterproof and good enough for my travels. Again weakest point in rain is the hands so I carry XL Playtex Living gloves and wear over my summer gloves and gauntlets stretching over my jacket for a watertight seal.

Due to off road mud, dirt and sand the numerous washings become mandatory. Otherwise I just put under the sun to get the wet swamp dog smell out. Degradation by washing is very minor if you do it properly, cold wash/cold rinse, gentle soap, gentle cycle, immediately hang dry and remove all armor. If you read my post entirely you'll see the jacket washed dozens of times, even some with armor in is still 100% fine. It is only the new jacket, never washed and armor never removed that failed. The armor failed premature and was detected after minimal use. clearly a bad batch as the 6 year old armor is still going strong.

_

Xdriver said:

I agree on the washing of the jacket having negative effects after many washes.

I just picked up a Tourmaster Flex. Overall, it seems pretty versatile. It's a full mesh jacket, but has a solid outer liner that zips on for cooler weather and then you can take it one step further with the quilted inner liner if the temp drops further. I figure that paired with my heated jacket I can cover a pretty broad range of temps. We'll see how it works out this winter.

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For mesh I use the Tourmaster Intake jacket. It is excellent quality, provides extensive protection and the jackets comes with several layers of liners of insulation based on the temperature. I use the jacket for riding when it is 70-110 degrees. When it get's that warm at the upper end, the cooling vest helps.

The washing machine twist and turn cycle stretches the fabric, loosens threads and beats up the inner padding. For this reason, get a bottle of baby shampoo (or [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Woolite-Everyday-Laundry-Detergent-Ounce/dp/B000VPBNJQ"]Woolite[/ame]), mild brush and go to a car wash with the power hose. You can scrub a little with the brush and shampoo and give it a good blast with the high pressure hose to rinse the soap off. Then put it on and it will dry after a several miles of riding. This process works very well. A second option is to use a bathtub full of warm/hot water.

I wash the helmet every 6-10 months. I remove the liners and use gentle soap and I am amazed at how much dirt comes out. I let the liners dry. Once the helmet is clean, it seems to have slightly less road/wind noise when riding. I think the liners are more plump and create a better seal around your head.

RB