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Good news from Honda - CRF450L merged

Re: Good news from Honda

I'm more worried about oil capacity than I am fuel capacity. ...it seems that bikes like the KTM 500 have a very small oil capacity limiting it's use for longer runs in the back country. While there's also fixes for that, it'd be nice to see a dedicated dual sport come with capacity in this manner to accommodate rider needs.

I had the same concern about the 500 EXC prior to buying one. After thinking about it I decided to compare it to the oil capacity of other popular dual sport bikes.

Oil Capacity:
CRF450L - 1.8 liters
XR650L - 1.9 liters
DRZ400S - 2 liters
500 EXC - 1.5 liters
701 Enduro - 1.7 liters
TE610 - 2.1 liters
TR650 - 2 liters


All fairly close to each other. The new CRF has more oil capacity than my 701 Enduro. What's interesting to me is the recommended service intervals. The 701 Enduro is 6,200 miles. The oil change interval on the TR650 was 3000 miles. The Honda XR650L is 1000 miles. The DRZ is 3000 miles if my memory is correct. In other words - they all have similar amounts of oil but vastly different oil change recommendations.

Once I figured this out, I decided that since I don't race the 500 and generally use it as an adventure bike (i.e. moderate loads on the engine) that changing the oil every 1000 miles was not unreasonably long.

Then I thought to myself, "How many dual sport trips do I actually do that are longer than 1000 miles?" In all the years I've been dual sport riding, one has been more than 1000 miles.

So, for typical use, the oil range of the 500 is easily within my normal riding habits. If I were planning a trip much more than 1000 miles but less than 2000miles, I would probably just buy some oil in a town along the way and change it in the parking lot of an auto parts store, not worrying about the oil filter until the trip was over. I'm not sure where I would choose the 500 for a ride longer than 2000 miles.

The bottom line is that unless Honda is recommending an extreme oil change interval (something like every 5 hours or after every ride) then 1.8 liters is probably sufficient for typical dual sport riding.
 
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Re: Good news from Honda

I had the same concern about the 500 EXC prior to buying one. After thinking about it I decided to compare it to the oil capacity of other popular dual sport bikes.

Oil Capacity:
CRF450L - 1.8 liters
XR650L - 1.9 liters
DRZ400S - 2 liters
500 EXC - 1.5 liters
701 Enduro - 1.7 liters
TE610 - 2.1 liters
TR650 - 2 liters


All fairly close to each other. The new CRF has more oil capacity than my 701 Enduro. What's interesting to me is the recommended service intervals. The 701 Enduro is 6,200 miles. The oil change interval on the TR650 was 3000 miles. The Honda XR650L is 1000 miles. The DRZ is 3000 miles if my memory is correct. In other words - they all have similar amounts of oil but vastly different oil change recommendations.

Once I figured this out, I decided that since I don't race the 500 and generally use it as an adventure bike (i.e. moderate loads on the engine) that changing the oil every 1000 miles was not unreasonably long.

Then I thought to myself, "How many dual sport trips do I actually do that are longer than 1000 miles?" In all the years I've been dual sport riding, one has been more than 1000 miles.

So, for typical use, the oil range of the 500 is easily within my normal riding habits. If I were planning a trip much more than 1000 miles but less than 2000miles, I would probably just buy some oil in a town along the way and change it in the parking lot of an auto parts store, not worrying about the oil filter until the trip was over. I'm not sure where I would choose the 500 for a ride longer than 2000 miles.

The bottom line is that unless Honda is recommending an extreme oil change interval (something like every 5 hours or after every ride) then 1.8 liters is probably sufficient for typical dual sport riding.

How much fuel does the 701 use, and in a pinch could it run on low octane. 12:1 on the Honda probably requires 90+ octane. Good looking bike for a youngster. How often on the valve check?? Does it come with a horn :-)
 
Re: Good news from Honda

How much fuel does the 701 use, and in a pinch could it run on low octane. 12:1 on the Honda probably requires 90+ octane.

I consistently get in the low 50s mpg on the 701 when riding in the hill country. My average is about 52 mpg. If I'm riding slow mileage increases to the high 50s. I don't do much sustained highway speeds (70 mph) but when I do the mileage drops into the high 40s.

Interestingly, every fuel injected bike I've owned had, or has, similar gas mileage. 650 Strom, TE610, TR650, and the 500 EXC got, or get, 50+ mpg.

The worst gas mileage was my Honda XR650L. It was a gas guzzler and averaged about 38 mpg.

I'm not sure if the 701 can run low octane gas in a pinch as I haven't fully tried to do so. I have mixed low octane with high octane in Mexico - I topped off my tank with low octane fuel when riding in Mexico once - with no issues. I try to remember to carry a small bottle of octane booster if I know I will be riding in a place where high octane might not be available (i.e. Mexico) but in that case I simply forgot.
 
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Re: Good news from Honda

Not as road ready as a KLR or DR or XRL 650 but much more trail friendly. My guess is there will be several options for larger tanks by the time they have stock in showrooms for guys that need the capacity.

I know everyone plans a true get away from it all adventure ride but in all honesty I bet most are ridden within the distance limits of the stock tank out on the trails for a while then either into town for gas or back to the truck for gas.

it is based on the 450X and Acerbis makes a 6.6 gallon tank for the X, and Safari makes a 2.25 gallon rear saddle tank for a whopping 8.85 gallons.
 
Re: Good news from Honda

it is based on the 450X and Acerbis makes a 6.6 gallon tank for the X, and Safari makes a 2.25 gallon rear saddle tank for a whopping 8.85 gallons.

The new Honda we are talking about is not based on the current X model. It is completely new. It would not be possible for a carbed current X tank to fit a fuel injected motorcycle anyway. The fuel pump will be in the tank on the new Honda.

I see a tank on the new Honda that looks like a big piece of titanium pop corn. Aluminum perimeter framed motorcycles are harder to fit larger tanks to as well with the frame spars right in the way. The improvement in fuel mileage with FI will give this bike 100 mile or more range anyway. If you are adventure touring and need more capacity, I am sure the aftermarket will have something available.
 
yes it is based on the new 450X that is based on the old 450X.

the saddle tank can be adapted to work with the fuel injected tank, you plumb the line out from the saddle tank to the vent line on the main tank cap, you then run the vapor recovery line to the saddle tank if you desire to maintain emission control.
 
I'm thinking that if this ends up coming out in a Rally version I'm going to have a very tough time staying out of a Honda dealership!
 
I'm thinking that if this ends up coming out in a Rally version I'm going to have a very tough time staying out of a Honda dealership!



That would be much more interesting, but would add even more weight. If they could do that and keep it under 300 pounds or so it would be really intriguing.
 
Re: Good news from Honda

Once I figured this out, I decided that since I don't race the 500 and generally use it as an adventure bike (i.e. moderate loads on the engine) that changing the oil every 1000 miles was not unreasonably long.

Then I thought to myself, "How many dual sport trips do I actually do that are longer than 1000 miles?" In all the years I've been dual sport riding, one has been more than 1000 miles.

So, for typical use, the oil range of the 500 is easily within my normal riding habits. If I were planning a trip much more than 1000 miles but less than 2000miles, I would probably just buy some oil in a town along the way and change it in the parking lot of an auto parts store, not worrying about the oil filter until the trip was over. I'm not sure where I would choose the 500 for a ride longer than 2000 miles.

:tab My 530 EXC holds .9 in the engine and .9 in the tranny. I can't recall what the hours/miles service interval in the manual is. I don't worry about it. I am not racing the bike. I typically just change it before each trip I do, which may run 1000 miles to 1500 miles. I think the longest I did was around 1800 miles. If I am not doing any trips, I change it once a year because I just don't put that many miles on it. I run synthetic oil in it. I have to top it off a tiny bit each day on trips because mine has always used a wee bit of oil if I run 200+ miles a day with some high speed highway mixed in there (new piston rings did not solve the issue). So I carry a metal MSR bottle with 1 liter of oil. I might use 1/4 of that over the course of a six day trip. If I were going to be doing an extended trip, like down to the end of South America and back, I'd probably change it on average every 2000 miles. When I do change the oil, it comes out slightly darker but clean (no metal flakes, etc,...).

:tab The reality nowadays with modern oils is that the service intervals are likely much shorter than they need to be unless you are seeing extreme service. Oil is relatively cheap. You can be sure that the engineers are being VERY conservative with their service intervals on oil changes. I would be far more concerned about keeping my air filter clean to keep crap out of the motor.

:tab The ability to put a bigger gas tank on the bike is a big issue. I want 200+ miles on a tank RELIABLY as a minimum. IF you are trail riding, that might seem extreme. If you are adventure riding out in the middle of nowhere, that can get a bit tight. I have a 300 mile range on my 530 EXC with an Acerbis 6.6 gallon tank on the bike. That has come in very handy on more than one occasion.
 
Looks like Honda made a better Drz400s ..... price is higher but you get a lot for your money.... I like it. Put me in line.
 
Btw .... the current crf450x only holds 700cc on the engine side. Talk about keeping an eye on your oil level.
 
You know what's great about this over KTM? Resale prices will be much better for the buyer. Woot for us cheapskates!
 
Euro model makes 25 HP. US model may do better. Oil and filter change every 600 miles. Engine tear down and rebuild every 20,000 miles. I'll keep my DRZ.
 
Euro model makes 25 HP. US model may do better. Oil and filter change every 600 miles. Engine tear down and rebuild every 20,000 miles. I'll keep my DRZ.

that is not right, the cbr300 engine makes that easy and it is a mildly tuned engine, my mini GS is restricted to 34hp and it is just 308cc
 
that is not right, the cbr300 engine makes that easy and it is a mildly tuned engine, my mini GS is restricted to 34hp and it is just 308cc

Someone else told me that, surely that isn't right. Yamaha WR250R makes more than that. If so it's doomed.
 
I got caught up in that the thread at ADV, and I too believe these numbers aren't right. They are just too far outside the norm for a Honda street legal bike. Kinda funny, the thread name at ADV is what my comment here was... Who saw that coming or something to that effect.

I have twisted Suzuki reps arms and they have sort of indicated there is something in works along this line and there are now rumors of a Yamaha 450. It is time for a update in this market segment. Maybe we'll see some real competition. KTM pretty much owns the space now.

I've been looking more at the 701 as a replacement for my DRZ, but I'd like it to be a little lighter and I know that I'm one of the few that will say this, but I don't think I need quite that much motor. To me the 701 is an updated DR or KLR. I guess I'm looking for the unicorn that sits between the KTM 500 and the 701. I hope this Honda fills that space.
 
that is not right, the cbr300 engine makes that easy and it is a mildly tuned engine, my mini GS is restricted to 34hp and it is just 308cc

I'm sorry, I got my information from Honda's European web site. I guess I need to go to some place that knows more about the bike than the manufacturer. "Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-rider’s perspective is the engine’s reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450L’s build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km."

Here is a link to Honda's European Web site: https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10
 
if it only makes 24.675 bhp it will be a colossal failure.

DRZ400 makes 33.4hp at the back wheel, 39.7 at the crank.
 
I agree on the failure with 25 HP. US version would not have to meet EU emisions, but going from 25 to something acceptable to the US motorcycling rider would be a stretch.
 
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EU emissions are not as strict as ours, my 310GS is Euro 4 compliant and makes well more than 25hp.

that has got to be a mistake.
 
Euro model makes 25 HP. US model may do better. Oil and filter change every 600 miles. Engine tear down and rebuild every 20,000 miles. I'll keep my DRZ.



I was looking at the US specs and with a 96mm bore and 63mm stroke, 12.0-1 compression ratio and 46mm throttle body it is going to make better than 50hp easy.
That euro number may be for a version restricted to meet learner bike restrictions they have for new young riders.
That 25hp would put in the the direct route A2 rating in the UK.
 
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