Maybe might possibly want a DS bike

Yeah, I agree. I just think that era had a lot of cool bikes.

TW200, with an ATV seat cover or 2, o-ring chain, gel grips, a 130 main, properly set the pilot screw, Mobil 1 for motorcycles. If over 5'10", add taller bars or bar risers. Avoid high octane and ethanol. About 3000 miles you'll notice the stock front tire wearing funny, vibrating, and making a howl on pavement, but by that time you'll know whether or not you're going to be a dualsport rider. K270 or similar IRC or Shinko is the cure. Really, you couldn't ask for a better dirt road cruiser for a beginner. Closest thing you'll ever find to a Silverwing for casually cruising unpaved roads.

I'm not going to retype arguments against changing sprocket ratios, exhaust, yada, yada, yada on a beginner bike. If you want to know the truth about such insanity, use the search function because I've posted them several times. All that stuff is affective, and as you gain experience, you'll be able to make wiser decisions about what farkles are meaningful to you. You may even eventually want to try a different bike, and that will be an easy option if you are not too invested in the TW--keep it simple and well maintained and you'll get your money out of it. This is your first dualsport, and need not be your last. Be warned--if you start with a simple TW as described, and part with it, you'll miss it terribly.

*Typed by a guy with 4 TWs, one with 54K miles, with his feet propped up on another with over $7000 in farkles.

Rman, is right. On some dirt roads, not much is faster than a TW. I was sitting on a TW with a stock engine that kept up with a 510 Husky on several miles of twisty 2-track on Old River Road. Several rides Tdub has elicited comments from other riders how well she kept up. In any of those instances, had Tdub2 been my ride instead of Tdub, the other bikes could easily have been shown taillight. The only places tall, powerful bikes have an advantage are straight line and big air. Take the berms from the corners, and TWs' max traction will cut inside the heavy bikes with skinny tires every time. Never underestimate the power of a little girl.

I'd prefer to keep 2 wheels on the ground at all times. I also favor the tortoise not the hare, so I don't need to be the first one across the line and don't care if I'm the last so long as they keep a plate of food warming for me.

I really do like the looks of the TW. I just wish there was a TW300 to have enough reserve to ride from home to wherever the ride is going to be. I'm afraid a stock TW would be a little short for the highway. Unfortunately it's a ways from here to anywhere I might ride other than if I rode it instead of my SW in my usual roaming.

swoody126 said:

yes, the TTR230 did replace the TTR250

the hiccup there is that they aren't street legal, to start with

it would have to have a LIGHTING KIT installed, which is a definite possibility

the TTR230 has the same power plant as the XT225

i've had 2-230's & 1-225(the street legal version)

ALL were great machines, simple, w/ anvil dependability...

sw

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Actually the TTR250 has all the necessary equipment and controls to pass Inspection and be registered in Texas. High/low beam headlamp, mirrors and mounts, horn, rear brake operated brake light and lp light. Just need to get insurance, get inspected, register and it is good to go. Does not have turn signal indicators but not required in Texas. No need for an aftermarket DS package.

JQ1.0 said:

Actually the TTR250 has all the necessary equipment and controls to pass Inspection and be registered in Texas. High/low beam headlamp, mirrors and mounts, horn, rear brake operated brake light and lp light. Just need to get insurance, get inspected, register and it is good to go. Does not have turn signal indicators but not required in Texas. No need for an aftermarket DS package.

Click to expand...

then the TTR230 did not replace it

my oops...

Do not discount the klx 250s for a great beginner bike. They are cheap enough also and bullet proof and with a 6 speed transmission it will do for short slab to trail routing. The Drz 400 isn't too bad either but only 5 speed. WR 250 seems to be the baseline for Cadillac light 250 but an older super Sherpa is hard to beat as well. Pick your poison or a range of them and go get one. Buy it right and if you are unhappy after a spell, flip it for another. I have a TW and it's a fun bike but I couldn't imagine doing much highway riding on it.


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...

We ALL wish they would come out with a TW-300. So far that remains an elusive unicorn that Yamaha is as yet unwilling to build. And the other bike companies are content to let them have have the fat tire market all to themselves. So there goes any impetus to update and improve...

I know I might get completely blasted for this but my experiences with a TW and a beginner were not positive at all. After hearing tons of stories of how great they are, the low seat height, and mellow power; both my Wife and I thought how could we go wrong when it comes to her first dual sport bike?

For someone that is new to non-paved riding, the TW is a little "different". It typically has fairly light steering, but if it does get out of kilter the big front wheel and heavy front tire make corrections more difficult to overcome for newbies. It also has a tendency to bounce around more than a typical dual sport. instead of hitting a bump and letting the suspension do all your work, you hit a bump and the suspension is 50/50 tire give and suspension all at the same time. For someone that is more experienced this is fine.

Ken can do some pretty darn amazing things on his TW, I've seen him do it. But what he isn't telling you is that he has more off road riding experience than most others on here. As soon as we sold the TW, and moved Rachel to a plated XR200, her confidence went up by a factor of ten, and she became able to not only ride over anything that Big Bend could throw at her, but also true off-road riding up at Red River.

So if you are small'ish, and completely new to non-paved riding; I would probably say to start with something other than a TW. I know, I know.... I am committing the ultimate motorcycle sin by saying this, but it is really what happened to us.

wildernessrider said:

We ALL wish they would come out with a TW-300. So far that remains an elusive unicorn that Yamaha is as yet unwilling to build. And the other bike companies are content to let them have have the fat tire market all to themselves. So there goes any impetus to update and improve...

Click to expand...

The current TW 'cc' dilemma, IMHO, seems to be spurned purely from Yamaha's laziness. The TW's frame could easily support an XT350ish engine with minimal tooling upgrades. Same tires, same seat height, a bigger gas tank, blah, blah....
That said, the TW200 still does what it was originally designed to do very well, it will go absolutely anywhere!
One reason why Yamaha doesn't retool the TW is due to licensing requirements in Asia and SE Asia, the TW has a huge following over there. To ride anything bigger than a 200cc (or in some countries 250cc, or even 350cc, [the RZ350's following for example]!) requires big $$ on a tiered system. In other words, why would Yamaha care? 90% of their market cant afford the licensing requirements for anything bigger than the cc's that their laws dictate.
Yamaha is still selling TW200's left and right, the US market is quite small.

FWIW I started my son out on a TW200. If the OP likes to keep the trail speeds down it is fantastic. On the street it is super maneuverable (compared to most street bikes). However, unlike most other 250 dirt bikes you can actually counter steer just a bit (Seems like all the other 250 dual sports flick over too fast to really counter steer on the street). On the street it feels like a miniature Harley except with far better handling and less power on the highway. In the dirt it feels like more of a tractor then a light weight dirt bike, but boy is the granny first gear good for crawling along a trail. It can get a bit heavy if you get stuck in the mud. Other dual sports with more suspension can take the technical stuff at higher speeds. However, for the tortoise, the Tdub is a BLAST to ride slowly tractoring along especially up steep hills.

YMMV

You want a bigger TW? It is not impossible. Keep in mind that the stock tires are rated to 84mph, though even Tdub2's trick suspension on the JDM street tires (TW203/204) is squirrely at that speed.

The problem with stuffing a bigger engine in a TW frame is the countershaft sprocket of a TW is way more off center than any other reasonable engine. There is enough room in the stock swing arm to fit a 9-inch wide ATV tire if you wish, simply by trimming the chain guard. Funy things happen to center of gravity when you offset the engine.

Tdub2 is bored and stroked to 267cc based on XT225 internals (Suzuki rod, Honda piston), including the 5-disc XT clutch, 6-speed trans, mildly ported head, bigger exhaust valve, MicroSquirt EFI, and a custom reverse cone megaphone exhaust with a XT350 silencer/spark arrestor. She has almost 10 more horsepower and exactly twice the torque of the stock engine when measured at the tire, she exceeds the stocker's peak torque over a band of over 5000rpm. A similar stroker bottom end in another TW intended for racing has dynoed at 31hp, but has a carb and no power band to speak of. Tdub2 runs fine on 87 octane and has been from Death Valley to Pike's Peak without adjustment. Yet to find a road down which she could not maintain the speed limit, but have yet to ride I10 across West Texas. Pre-EFI Tdub2 was lasered at 92mph, but did not have the monster powerband, and she was geared way too high for lugging down tight trails. Flat, level, no wind, EFI, and regeared, 1st is the same final ratio as stock, and she will run 87mph at redline. No, Tdub2 is not for sale.

250cc can be done on a stock TTR230 or XT225 crank, with a simple grind of the top case half to clear the new cylinder liner. If memory serves, a XT250 piston fits if the skirt is trimmed a bit to clear the balancer. Other than that, the big bore is a bolt-on.

The only machine work required for the 5-disc clutch/6-speed is to turn the TW countershaft on the tranny side of the shaft to match the profile of the XT countershaft. The rest of the conversion is a bolt-in. The XT/TTR kickstart parts can be added to the newer TWs to add that feature, just use the early TW kick start lever.

I wouldn't ever be aiming for 84 or even 74 for that matter. I'm in no hurry to get anywhere but I don't want to be holding hard against the throttle stop at 60 either. Having 84mph available would suggest a nice reserve at the 62-64 that I like to ride, in actual mph not typical speedometer optimism. Hopefully if I research long enough and debate enough the urge will pass, at least until next season, and by then I can know enough to be dangerous.

LDB said:

Having 84mph available would suggest a nice reserve at the 62-64 that I like to ride...

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This may seem counter intuitive for the car first crowd, but something I learned at 14 on a Honda 100 is that speed is a safety feature. There are times when having the ability to accelerate out of traffic trouble is necessary. Riding a bike with a practical top speed that is roughly equal to the average traffic speed on a farm to market road can be risky. I'm not suggesting that everyone needs a motorcycle capable of 140 mph, but one that maxes out at 65 limits creates unnecessary risks in traffic - and at some point it is going to get ridden in traffic.

I'm a late entrant into dual-sport riding. My 2006 KLX250S is much more capable than I am and cruises all day at 61/GPS/mph. I'm 5'6" and have lowered it a little, but I have dropped it a few times due to "no ground" when reaching down with my left foot - which is due mostly to my lack of technique. I purchased this bike a couple of years ago from oldtimer, who then acquired a CRF250L which does have a slight advantage on the pavement. Both of us have traveled several 250-300 mile days on these bikes without issue (oldtimer recently did a 600 mile day on his CRF250L with Seat Concepts + windshield). And, yet, I still want a TW200.

My suggestion would be, in no particular order, to start out with the simpler TW200, XT225 or Sherpa, which was my target when oldtimer offered to sell me the KLX250S.

Meriden said:

This may seem counter intuitive for the car first crowd, but something I learned at 14 on a Honda 100 is that speed is a safety feature. There are times when having the ability to accelerate out of traffic trouble is necessary. Riding a bike with a practical top speed that is roughly equal to the average traffic speed on a farm to market road can be risky. I'm not suggesting that everyone needs a motorcycle capable of 140 mph, but one that maxes out at 65 limits creates unnecessary risks in traffic - and at some point it is going to get ridden in traffic.

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I disagree. Speed kills. Brains is a safety feature. Use them, and it is relatively easy to stay aware and NOT get into situations where one would need speed. A rider who does not recognize developing dangers and take preemptive action to avoid being in danger, who depends on speed as a means to escape danger, will eventually charge out of one danger only to find himself facing another, developing much faster due to more speed, that he did not have a chance of avoiding due to the distraction of the first danger.

Tomato tomahto, it all depends on the rider and situation and a dozen other variables


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KenH said:

I disagree. Speed kills. Brains is a safety feature. Use them, and it is relatively easy to stay aware and NOT get into situations where one would need speed. A rider who does not recognize developing dangers and take preemptive action to avoid being in danger, who depends on speed as a means to escape danger, will eventually charge out of one danger only to find himself facing another, developing much faster due to more speed, that he did not have a chance of avoiding due to the distraction of the first danger.

Click to expand...

Gimme a break Ken, that's not at all what Meriden is saying. You're telling me that you've never been in freeway traffic when some fool in a semi rides up on your with a K rail on the left and another semi on the right? That's the wrong place to be on a 200cc bike!
"A rider who does not recognize developing dangers and take preemptive action to avoid being in danger......". Did you read that out of a book? Your above post suggests that it's all in the rider's hands, that no outside influence can or will compromise the foresight and diligence of the experienced rider. Myself and a few friends will be glad to contradict that hopeful, confident scenario.
That said, yeah, I've ridden freeway traffic on my TW in Houston and Austin. And yeah, I survived, so what? Luck? It's no cakewalk, you better **** well know what you're doing.

Anywho, seems to most "dualsport" TWT riders a "road" is covered in football-sized boulders randomly distributed under and semi-submerged in mounds of sugar sand, which they ride over speeds that would get a ticket on the interstate. These folks actually use all 417 horsepower and 19.3 inches of suspension travel of their monster dirt bikes. If you want to ride like that get a bike like that. Otherwise, such fantastic capabilities simply are not necessary or even desirable because all greatness compromises other attributes. If other attributes are more important to you, choose a motorcycle with those attributes.

Back in the olden days we had a type of bike called "scrambler". These were basically standard street bikes with raised exhaust and "universal tread" tires. Honda, for instance, produced Scramblers in displacements from 50cc to 450cc. These were perfect for any "road", but would limit out pretty quickly on "tracks" and "trails". Pretty much anywhere you could go with a stock 2wd pickup, a scrambler would also go with no problem. Dirt worthiness was enhanced with more aggressive tires (trials treads worked well) and adding a few teeth to the wheel sprocket as most scramblers carried the same sprockets as their street cousins.

Today we have a plethora of "50/50" tires much superior to the old universal treads off pavement, such as the Metzler Enduro, Kenda K270, Shinko 244 and 700, and IRC GP-1. Imagine a V-strom or Versys 250 or 300. PERFECT! Too bad not a single small scrambler is sold today.

If the toughest surface I expected to ride was a dirt road any Impala could traverse with care, I'd pick up a TU250, drop the gearing a tad, mount some 50/50 tires, perhaps raise the front fender a tad, add a luggage rack and case and hand guards to protect the bike in a drop, and ride it like I stole it, fully expecting to ding the mufflers.

KenH said:

Anywho, seems to most "dualsport" TWT riders a "road" is covered in football-sized boulders randomly distributed under and semi-submerged in mounds of sugar sand, which they ride over speeds that would get a ticket on the interstate. These folks actually use all 417 horsepower and 19.3 inches of suspension travel of their monster dirt bikes. If you want to ride like that get a bike like that. Otherwise, such fantastic capabilities simply are not necessary or even desirable because all greatness compromises other attributes. If other attributes are more important to you, choose a motorcycle with those attributes.

Back in the olden days we had a type of bike called "scrambler". These were basically standard street bikes with raised exhaust and "universal tread" tires. Honda, for instance, produced Scramblers in displacements from 50cc to 450cc. These were perfect for any "road", but would limit out pretty quickly on "tracks" and "trails". Pretty much anywhere you could go with a stock 2wd pickup, a scrambler would also go with no problem. Dirt worthiness was enhanced with more aggressive tires (trials treads worked well) and adding a few teeth to the wheel sprocket as most scramblers carried the same sprockets as their street cousins.

Today we have a plethora of "50/50" tires much superior to the old universal treads off pavement, such as the Metzler Enduro, Kenda K270, Shinko 244 and 700, and IRC GP-1. Imagine a V-strom or Versys 250 or 300. PERFECT! Too bad not a single small scrambler is sold today.

If the toughest surface I expected to ride was a dirt road any Impala could traverse with care, I'd pick up a TU250, drop the gearing a tad, mount some 50/50 tires, perhaps raise the front fender a tad, add a luggage rack and case and hand guards to protect the bike in a drop, and ride it like I stole it, fully expecting to ding the mufflers.

Click to expand...

Honestly, what the H@#% are you talking about

Just like there apparently isn't the do-it-all-bike, there isn't the do-it-all advice to offer when it comes to riding in all conditions either.

To me that's what makes motorcycling so much fun.

May the best man survive...

Google "Honda CL". The CLs would easily fulfill the OP's expressed capabilities of cruising city streets without pavement. If I was looking for such a bike today I'd pick up a used TU250, add a little protection in case of a drop and more aggressive tires, raise the front fender, drop the gearing a little, and hit the unpaved city streets. Heck, there are even dualsport tires that fit scooters. A 250cc scooter would fulfill mission objectives easily. I don't think a dirt-oriented dualsport is necessary for where the OP wants to ride dirt, and the compromises that would make a bike more dirt oriented will detract from the bike's main purpose of city transportation.

A good CL350 would be another good choice for me. It would be plenty enough to ride the 80 or so highway miles to SHNF and do fine for any riding at the level I want to ride. I hadn't thought of one of those. I'll have to add it to the suspect list. Thanks.

I found the vibration on the CB/CL twins 250cc and bigger to be objectionable. Don't know why when singles don't bother me, and never kept one long enough to dork with solutions. The smaller twins (175/200) and singles were not a problem. If you want a CL, hold out for a clean CL200. It's a single year model, a punched out 175, that will run an honest 80mph in traffic, but is a lot lighter than the 250+cc bikes of that era with noticeably more mid-range torque than its 175cc predecessor.

Other options include a plethora of "enduro" bikes, which were more dirt oriented than the CLs. Fully street legal, some were available in displacements from 50 to 500cc. These old enduros were often dependable as rocks with much more comfortable seats and pavement ergonomics than today's "dualsport" bikes. All the Japanese and many European builders sold enduros with a choice of 2-stroke or 4-stroke engines. The 250s would top out in the 75-80mph range but the suspensions all could use a little work, especially the rear shocks that tended to have no dampning. Either the Honda SL350 or XL350 or Yamaha DT360 would meet your mission objectives, with the limited suspension travel providing a relatively low seat height. A clean barn find will get lots of attention at any meet and greet.