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KTM Thumper Discussion

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:tab So the next item I want to address on my 530 is the clutch. It is a hydraulic clutch. The friction zone is TINY. It goes from no grab to 100% grab with very little lever travel. This makes it hard to do any low speed stuff, especially starting from a stop under less than ideal conditions. Conceptually, I understand how a clutch works. That said, I have never cracked open a case and actually messed with one. I don't have any idea if there is something I might need to simply adjust or if I should be inspecting for wear and potential replacement. Also, I want to inspect the kick start mechanism. Sometimes it feels like the gears "jump" when I push on the lever and it isn't engaging. So I figure I'll get in there and check it all at once while I have it apart.

:tab As much as I would like a newer 500, the reality is that I will probably be keeping the 530 for a long time. So I might as well get it fixed right, besides I'd want it fixed right just in case I had to sell it if a smoking deal on a 500 fell in my lap :trust:

:tab Anyone got a link to a good video or write up that shows how to get into the clutch, inspect it, adjust it, what to replace, etc,... and /or how to check the kick starter?
 
Tourmeister said:
As much as I would like a newer 500, the reality is that I will probably be keeping the 530 for a long time. So I might as well get it fixed right, besides I'd want it fixed right just in case I had to sell it if a smoking deal on a 500 fell in my lap :trust:
Click to expand...

I just bought one today :) :) . 2017 500 excf pics to follow.

PS, you can't have it. :)
 
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Tourmeister said:
:tab So the next item I want to address on my 530 is the clutch. It is a hydraulic clutch. The friction zone is TINY. It goes from no grab to 100% grab with very little lever travel. This makes it hard to do any low speed stuff, especially starting from a stop under less than ideal conditions. Conceptually, I understand how a clutch works. That said, I have never cracked open a case and actually messed with one. I don't have any idea if there is something I might need to simply adjust or if I should be inspecting for wear and potential replacement. Also, I want to inspect the kick start mechanism. Sometimes it feels like the gears "jump" when I push on the lever and it isn't engaging. So I figure I'll get in there and check it all at once while I have it apart.

:tab As much as I would like a newer 500, the reality is that I will probably be keeping the 530 for a long time. So I might as well get it fixed right, besides I'd want it fixed right just in case I had to sell it if a smoking deal on a 500 fell in my lap :trust:

:tab Anyone got a link to a good video or write up that shows how to get into the clutch, inspect it, adjust it, what to replace, etc,... and /or how to check the kick starter?
Click to expand...

Do you have any drag at all when you pull the lever in all the way? When you say it engages quickly, does it do that right at the bar or closer to the end (clutch lever all the way out)?

A couple things that are specific to KTM hydraulic clutches. The clutch masters have a bore number, 10.5, 9.5, 9.0 etc. The smaller the bore, the easier the pull and the longer the throw. The higher bore numbers are harder to pull in and have a shorter throw (engages faster and further away from the handlebar). Most KTM four strokes seem to have the larger bores for some reason. However, you can easily switch master cylinders to change the lever effort and throw. Yours should be a Magura brand cylinder but KTM started using Brembo Masters around the time of your bike too. It makes a difference because Magura uses Mineral Oil and Brembo uses brake fluid.

Another known issue with KTM clutches is leaking O rings at the Slave Cylinder. You can't see it is leaking because it leaks into the engine side. However, your fluid level will go down. You have to take the slave off the check this but it is easy to do. Also, the slave piston gets cocked sideways inside the slave cylinder bore and can wear the cylinder wall. This can cause funny clutch feel too. If the fluid level in the master cylinder is not going down, then you are good. If it is low, then you have a slave cylinder issue--most likely o rings.

If your clutch is dragging or not disengaging all the way, then you could have some warped steel drive plates. They are easy to check on a flat pane of glass or other perfectly straight surface. Both the fiber and drive plates have wear measurements that you can check with calipers.

Last thing that could cause funny engagement would be wear on your clutch basket. This would be caused by the friction plate ears hammering against the clutch basket.

If you need slave cylinder o rings, I have a whole bag full of upgraded Viton o rings. I can drop a few in the mail.

On the kick start, they are easy to work on too. However if one of my dirt bikes doesn't start on the e start, then I just go to the next one and ride the one that does start.:mrgreen: My Husaberg and newest KTM don't even have kickers.
 
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:tab The lever pull effort is not really an issue unless I am doing a ride where I am just constantly changing gears all day long. The engage point is about midway between the full out position and full pull (which is not quite to the bar). When I ease the clutch out, there is nothing nothing nothing then GRAB! There is no "feathering" or partial clutching. It's just kind of all or nothing. It makes starting from a stop kind of interesting sometimes. I CAN feather the clutch, but I have to REALLY focus on super small movements of the lever to make it happen. I did not used to be that way when I first got the bike.

:tab My manual says to use Dot 4/5.1 fluid for the clutch. Level in the reservoir is fine. Is is possible that air in the line would cause the behavior I describe? I've not bled the clutch in a long time. Even then, I bled it backward because I did not realize you had to bleed them from the bottom up :doh:

:tab It is possible there may be some dragging. The bike is noticeably easier to move in neutral than it is in first gear with the clutch lever pulled in all the way. It is also easier to start in neutral than in gear with the level pulled in all way.
 
Tourmeister said:
:tab The lever pull effort is not really an issue unless I am doing a ride where I am just constantly changing gears all day long. The engage point is about midway between the full out position and full pull (which is not quite to the bar). When I ease the clutch out, there is nothing nothing nothing then GRAB! There is no "feathering" or partial clutching. It's just kind of all or nothing. It makes starting from a stop kind of interesting sometimes. I CAN feather the clutch, but I have to REALLY focus on super small movements of the lever to make it happen. I did not used to be that way when I first got the bike.

:tab My manual says to use Dot 4/5.1 fluid for the clutch. Level in the reservoir is fine. Is is possible that air in the line would cause the behavior I describe? I've not bled the clutch in a long time. Even then, I bled it backward because I did not realize you had to bleed them from the bottom up :doh:


:tab It is possible there may be some dragging. The bike is noticeably easier to move in neutral than it is in first gear with the clutch lever pulled in all the way. It is also easier to start in neutral than in gear with the level pulled in all way.
Click to expand...

Ok. You have a Brembo clutch master then. I doubt that you have air in the line. Any little bit of air at all and you will have no pressure at all (no lever resistance). At this point, I would take your clutch apart enough to inspect all the wear pieces (steel drive plates and friction plates). It only takes a minute to do a reverse bleed with a syringe. I probably would just to eliminate that variable.

It really is very easy to check your clutch. You don't even have to drain the oil--just lay the bike on its side or tilt it over 45 degrees or more. From there, the clutch cover comes right off, and you are looking at the pressure plate with the bolts in a circle holding in the clutch springs.

Once the pressure plate is off, you can remove all the clutch plates--both steel and fiber. The wear limits are in the engine manual, or maybe even in the owners manual. I have not taken apart a 530 clutch--you may have a couple different thicknesses of plates that go in a certain order.

While you are in there check the clutch basket for wear where the friction plates touch. If the clutch basket has notches from wear, this prevents the plates from sliding smoothly and can cause abrupt engagement like you are experiencing.

I don't have a link to a formal "how to" but if you have the KTM engine repair manual that has all you need. If you are keeping your 530 you should have one anyway.

This whole process is less than an hour of work. Pretty straightforward.
 
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Johnf3 said:
While you are in there check the clutch basket for wear where the friction plates touch. If the clutch basket has notches from wear, this prevents the plates from sliding smoothly and can cause abrupt engagement like you are experiencing.
Click to expand...

I've never had this problem with KTMs, but have with others. You do not need to replace the hub, just file the ears smooth.
 
mcrider said:
I've never had this problem with KTMs, but have with others. You do not need to replace the hub, just file the ears smooth.
Click to expand...

Right. It is not the clutch hub though. The steel plates are what contact the hub. The clutch basket, where the friction plates ride, is what needs to be inspected.

Filing the basket works, but it just makes the problem come back faster because the clearance is increased and the plates chatter against the ears even worse.

i agree with you that KTM baskets are pretty tough, but I have seen them wear and it is worth checking considering how easy it is to do.
 
Any special tools required?

Do I need to replace the gasket between the cover and the case?

Any "gotchas" I need to worry about, like say a spring or two that might launch across the garage into limbo...?
 
Tourmeister said:
Any special tools required?

Do I need to replace the gasket between the cover and the case?

Any "gotchas" I need to worry about, like say a spring or two that might launch across the garage into limbo...?
Click to expand...

No special tools needed, unless you actually have to remove the clutch hub nut. I use an air impact for that. Otherwise you need something to hold the clutch basket/hub assembly while you loosen the big hub nut. Just to inspect everything you should not need anything special except for digital calipers to measure the plate thickness of the steel and fiber plates.

I will look here in a minute at the parts diagram for your bike, but the only gotcha would be if you have different thicknesses of plates. If that is the case, they need to go in a certain order usually, but the manual will specify that.

Other that that, take your time and just take out the plates and place them so they go back in the same order. Take pictures, report back.

Edit: I looked at the KTM factory parts diagram for your clutch. You do have one different fiber disc that you need to keep track of and put it back in the same spot. The steel discs are all the same, so you are good there. One more thing after looking at the diagram--your clutch has what KTM calls a "spring" that goes between the clutch hub and the first clutch plate (part #6 in the KTM diagram for the clutch on a 530). It will be the last thing you take out of the entire assembly and the first thing you put back. I have seen those springs wear a groove into the clutch plate that it rides up against. When this happens, it can cause abrupt clutch engagement. So take a close look at that.

Here is a link to your clutch parts diagram.

http://www.ktmpartspro.com/oemparts/a/ktm/524b9637f8700231ac499b64/clutch
 
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:tab I have the user manual and the parts fiche in PDF for the 530. What I don't have is something that actually tells me HOW to do stuff. Guess I need to look for something like a Haynes or Clymer? I've never found those to be very good for other bikes though. Where possible, I like to see a detailed write up with pics or a good video. Still hunting for something like that.

:tab I need a good set of digital calipers.
 
Hi KTM Thumpers!
Found what looks like a good deal on a clean stock '08 530 with 745 on the ODO. Reading this thread and you guys seem like real mechanics so I'm worried about taking on too much M&R that eats into my already limited riding time. Any suggestions about what to look for at inspection, or should I quit drooling over KTM and just buy Japanese?
Thanks.
 
If the price is right, buy it now, put gas in it, and ride the snot out of it. That bike will put a giggle on your face.

You might ask the seller if it had the auto-decompression cam warrantied. If the seller doesn't know, it's super easy to check after you get it home and all shined up.

BUY BUY BUY

Rally training last weekend...
i-PwzS3dm-L.jpg


What happens when you don't pay attention to the roadbook.
i-x3pSgKw-L.jpg


Over 18,000 miles and 600 hrs on my 2008 KTM 450 EXCR.
 
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I'm just curious how you managed to get it stopped without going further down... :eek2:
 
This is Rick M riding his KTM thumper across the Colorado River back in 2013.
Rick2-X2.jpg
 
Funny that after experiencing these symptoms for (cough) quite awhile, I finally opened mine up again tonight and found exactly what you described. The little Belleville spring/judder spring/tension spring has worn a heck of a groove.


Johnf3 said:
No special tools needed, unless you actually have to remove the clutch hub nut. I use an air impact for that. Otherwise you need something to hold the clutch basket/hub assembly while you loosen the big hub nut. Just to inspect everything you should not need anything special except for digital calipers to measure the plate thickness of the steel and fiber plates.

I will look here in a minute at the parts diagram for your bike, but the only gotcha would be if you have different thicknesses of plates. If that is the case, they need to go in a certain order usually, but the manual will specify that.

Other that that, take your time and just take out the plates and place them so they go back in the same order. Take pictures, report back.

Edit: I looked at the KTM factory parts diagram for your clutch. You do have one different fiber disc that you need to keep track of and put it back in the same spot. The steel discs are all the same, so you are good there. One more thing after looking at the diagram--your clutch has what KTM calls a "spring" that goes between the clutch hub and the first clutch plate (part #6 in the KTM diagram for the clutch on a 530). It will be the last thing you take out of the entire assembly and the first thing you put back. I have seen those springs wear a groove into the clutch plate that it rides up against. When this happens, it can cause abrupt clutch engagement. So take a close look at that.

Here is a link to your clutch parts diagram.

http://www.ktmpartspro.com/oemparts/a/ktm/524b9637f8700231ac499b64/clutch
Click to expand...
 
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