TWT Forums  

 


Go Back   TWT Forums > Texas Dualsport Riding > General Dirtiness

Notices

Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-2005, 11:43 PM   #1
whoa
 
whoa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 3,531
Off Road Training

I heard that Total Rider offers off road training "Hit the dirt!". Has anybody taken their course, or any off road class for that matter? If so, what was covered in the class and how dirty does it get? I'm obviously not looking for a motocross class on this Tiger.

I might want to catch one of those rides out of Huntsville one of these days. And it doesn't look like they have any paved roads out that way based on some of the ride reports.
__________________
David - Let me google that for you.
2005 Triumph Thruxton
2010 Triumph Street Triple
whoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 12:09 AM   #2
Squeaky
A Few Loose Screws...
Forum Supporter
 
Squeaky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Katy
Posts: 14,800
I say we get a beginners group together and see if Scott will give us some pointers. He knows which roads are easier than others, he knows what it takes to learn to ride dirt on a big bike, and he has a motive - when we get good at it, we can go out on those roads with him more often!
__________________
Rebecca
Katy, TX
'03 VStrom 1k "Wilbur"
'98 XR400R "Templeton"
"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending."
-Carl Bard

Where's Squeaky?
Squeaky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 01:33 AM   #3
Tourmeister
Keeper of the Asylum
 
Tourmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Huntsville, Tx.
Posts: 46,615
The first and most important thing to learn about dirt riding is that you WILL fall down. Even the best dirt riders on the planet still fall down on occasion. So you have to get over that aspect pretty quick, otherwise, you will just be wasting your time.

After you get over the falling down thing, the rest is just like street riding in that the key is proper body positioning and throttle control. Dirt riding is all about dealing with limited traction. This is done with the throttle and weight transfer from side to side and front to back. Just as on a street bike, if you relax, the bike will do it's job. If you fight it, you will usually lose and shortly fall down

What a dirt riding class will teach you is how to use the throttle and your body to affect the weight distribution on the bike and how to use those skills in different situations: mud, sand, gravel, etc,... Just like street riding, there are many aspects of dirt riding that are counter intuitive. It helps to have someone point out those things so you don't have to learn the hard way. Also like street riding, learning on a small bike first is easier than learning on a big fat behemoth with lots of power But once you understand the basics, things are pretty much the same on big or small bikes, with a few exceptions...

I am FAR from being an expert on dirt riding. I would really like to take Jimmy Lewis's class. He has raced the Dakar Rally a few times, won too many other races to mention, and is pretty much the all round guru for such matters.

http://www.jimmylewisoffroad.com/

Adios,
__________________
Scott Friday

Total Forum Supporter Donations For October: $323.43 - Previous Month: $685.11 - Record High: Jan 16 $1539.42 - 128 Current Forum Supporters out of 20679 Users (0.62%)
Support TWT by shopping at Amazon


The number one rule for this forum!
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Eph 4:29 (NIV)
Think before you post. Leave out the vulgarity, personal attacks and foul language!

Quote:
"However lofty the goals, if the means be depraved, the result must reflect that depravity." - Leonard E. Read

Lies are fragile. They require constant attentiveness to keep them alive. The exposure of a single truth can rip through an ocean of lies, evaporating it instantly. - Brandon Smith

If you want government to intervene domestically, you’re a liberal. If you want government to intervene overseas, you’re a conservative. If you want government to intervene everywhere, you’re a moderate. If you don’t want government to intervene anywhere, you’re an extremist. — Joe Sobran

It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. – Murray N. Rothbard

When one possessed of the Truth suffers from a heavy heart he is susceptible to a more dangerous affliction — the craving for power to eradicate error, to cause Truth to triumph by force. - Frank Chodorov

Where politicians flourish, long history has harshly taught us, people and their liberty wither. Where the state is god and the "public interest" worshipped, individual man will be found bleeding upon the altar. - Karl Hess

The accepted wisdom is that without the state, society would collapse into lawlessness and crime. In fact, lawlessness and crime define the very nature of the state and the society organized by it. - Bionic Mosquito

But the myth of the rule of law does more than render the people submissive to state authority; it also turns them into the state's accomplices in the exercise of its power. For people who would ordinarily consider it a great evil to deprive individuals of their rights or oppress politically powerless minority groups will respond with patriotic fervor when these same actions are described as upholding the rule of law. - John Hasnas
Tourmeister is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 06:52 AM   #4
STrider
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: you can know where or when, but not both
Posts: 3,348
MSF has a dirt bike class, as well, and it is set up for a person who has never put a leg over a bike. I haven't taken it, but heres a few things I learned dirt riding:

0.5. Look ahead. Now, look farther ahead. Go where you look, not look where you go.
1. Stand up
2. When in doubt, gas it
3. A hill is made at the bottom, not the top
3.5 Don't charge up a singletrack hill until you are sure the guy before you made it.
4. You can jump an xr600 like a supercross bike
4.5 You cannot land a supercross jump uphill
STrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 07:59 AM   #5
buck000
 
buck000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Round Rock
Posts: 4,126
whoa: I called Jon at T.R.I.C. a few moons ago, and I think it was about 80-90 dollars for a 1/2 day or so class. I believe there's a park off of 290 east of Elgin that he likes to go to. IIRC, Jon likes to hold the class / private lesson on Mondays, though he's often out at that park on Sundays.

I really need to hook up with Jon and get some use out of my DR. I just ordered replacement brake and clutch pedals, so I'm ready for the falls...
__________________
paul
'01 Futura, '07 Tuono -- "Aprilia? Who makes those?"

Chris Martenson Crash Course - Worth viewing.
buck000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 08:35 AM   #6
whoa
 
whoa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 3,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by buck000
I believe there's a park off of 290 east of Elgin that he likes to go to.
Thanks, I'll run out there and see if I can find the park. He may be doing real offroad work and my ability on the Tiger will be pretty tame. I've sent them an email for more info.

Did not know MSF had an offroad class. Took mine from Moto Fun so thats my practical knowledge of MSF.
__________________
David - Let me google that for you.
2005 Triumph Thruxton
2010 Triumph Street Triple
whoa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 09:14 AM   #7
STCPO
 
STCPO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: McKinney, Texas
Posts: 919
It's very basic, but Honda offers a one day class here at their training center in Irving. I think you can find info about it on the Honda website.

Pete
__________________
2004 ST1300A
2010 F800GS
STCPO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 09:48 AM   #8
dower
 
dower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kingwood Texas
Posts: 261
Off-Road Book

Has anyone read "Pro motocross and off-road motorcycle riding techniques" by Donnie Bales and Gary Semics?

Judging by the preview of the book on Amazon it appears to start out with the basics and builds upon it.

__________________
Will
2004 R1 "Trinity"
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! -- Homer Simpson
dower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 09:52 AM   #9
WoodButcher
Administrator
 
WoodButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: gentle on my mind
Posts: 12,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by buck000
whoa: I called Jon at T.R.I.C. a few moons ago, and I think it was about 80-90 dollars for a 1/2 day or so class. I believe there's a park off of 290 east of Elgin that he likes to go to. IIRC, Jon likes to hold the class / private lesson on Mondays, though he's often out at that park on Sundays.

I really need to hook up with Jon and get some use out of my DR. I just ordered replacement brake and clutch pedals, so I'm ready for the falls...
The park is Cross Creek Cycle park and it is in Page, TX just off 290 on 21. The website is: http://www.crosscreekcp.com

They have several tracks there, a full motocross, a supercross like, a beginner, and a kid's track. They also have a trail, but it has been raced on a little too much lately and you really need to be on a real dirt bike to ride it. It's rutted and whooped out.

Back to the other thread about Crooked Creek up in Waco though, that has trails that are rideable by the bigger dual sport bikes.
__________________
Rusty Myers

I met a girl who sang the blues
And I asked her for some happy news
But she just smiled and turned away - American Pie, Don McLean

2009 R1200GS Adventure - The Bug Killer
2013 K1600GT - Serenity
WoodButcher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 09:55 AM   #10
irondawg
 
irondawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Leander
Posts: 542
Funny y'all should be talking about this but soon...very soon, I'll be teaching the little missus to ride and it will be in the dirt. This is how I learned to ride and have encouraged newbies to learn on a dualsport first then street bike. The things you learn on the dirt will definitely make you a better street rider.

I have decided one of the better places to learn is out in Bastrop. I think this is the one Buck000 is talking about. It's relatively flat, not so rocky and somewhat softer ground cover so when you biff, it won't hurt so much.

If y'all want to tag along, that'd be cool. I'm thinking March 26/27 weekend.

I'll be riding my DR350 and she'll be on a Yamaha GT80.
__________________
Irondawg
'05 XR650R
'04 WR450F
'80 GT80
irondawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 10:54 AM   #11
Sleepy Weasel
Forum Supporter
 
Sleepy Weasel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Flower Mound
Posts: 10,971
I'm glad somebody brought this up. Though I passed on the idea of getting a DS, it still holds some interest for me. For example, I'd much rather tour Big Bend on a DS than a street bike, just because there are so many more places to go when you're not limited to pavement.

For a while I'd thought "I can just rent a baby GS or something" but then I realized it's not just about being on the bike, but involves knowing how to ride it, too. I've given some thought to finding a used "beater" dirtbike, but I don't know enough about them to be able to determine what to look for, specifically in regards to engine size and seat height.

txcpl, I may just have to look into that Honda class. Gracias.
__________________
Sleepy Weasel®... there's only one.

2012 Triumph Bonneville

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates
I drank what?
Sleepy Weasel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 11:12 AM   #12
Tx Rider
 
Tx Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Grapevine
Posts: 2,875
Well IMO you can't go wrong with about a 350cc sized 4 stroke for a nice dirt bike. They aren't so hot for long highway rides but the size weight is great for tromping around on trails.

I may be partial though as my first bike was a 350 twin enduro I rode everywhere, including I-10 from Houston to Port Arthur many a time and a fair bit of Houston freeways as well.

The modern singles are a lot lighter and have much better suspensions.

There's a lot to learn about dirt riding if you want to ride MX and run fast and jump high. If all your going to ride is trails it's a bit simpler.
__________________
Formerly known as Dyna Sport
2004 KTM 625 SXC
2004 FZ1
1996 KTM 620 RXC
Grapevine, Tx.
Tx Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 11:32 AM   #13
gotdurt
Master Bandage Tester
 
gotdurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Leander, Tx
Posts: 4,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy Weasel
I've given some thought to finding a used "beater" dirtbike, but I don't know enough about them to be able to determine what to look for, specifically in regards to engine size and seat height.
Find an older 400 or smaller 4 stroke. XR400's, XR250's, KLX300's, DR350's, etc. are all good, friendly trail bikes. Whatever yo do, stay away from 2strokes, at least in the beginning. If you're looking for a bargain bike that is still trail worthy, wait for an early 80's XR350; great bikes from what I've read, and I've seen them well under $1k.
__________________
Casey
'80 CB750C
Youtube

"Not knowing where you're going is the best way to get somewhere you've never been..." -J. Peterman

"It's a long and rugged road and we don't know where it's headed, but we know it's gonna get us where we're goin'" - Wailin' Jennys
gotdurt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 04:06 PM   #14
Sleepy Weasel
Forum Supporter
 
Sleepy Weasel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Flower Mound
Posts: 10,971
Maybe it's a dumb question, but why avoid 2 strokes? I mean, I know the whole power per CC comparison to a 4 stroke, but why avoid a smaller (displacement) and presumably lighter 2 stroke bike?
:scratch
__________________
Sleepy Weasel®... there's only one.

2012 Triumph Bonneville

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates
I drank what?
Sleepy Weasel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 04:09 PM   #15
Sleepy Weasel
Forum Supporter
 
Sleepy Weasel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Flower Mound
Posts: 10,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by txcpl
It's very basic, but Honda offers a one day class here at their training center in Irving. I think you can find info about it on the Honda website.

Pete
Doh...

Is this the Honda place you mean? I'm at work and don't have time to look around their site right now, but if it's the one, I'll hit it from home later.

http://www.allambsdallashonda.com

Gracias.
__________________
Sleepy Weasel®... there's only one.

2012 Triumph Bonneville

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socrates
I drank what?
Sleepy Weasel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 04:13 PM   #16
STCPO
 
STCPO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: McKinney, Texas
Posts: 919
Nope...this one. It's Honda's own facility. They were setup at the MC show this year.

Honda Training Site

Pete
__________________
2004 ST1300A
2010 F800GS
STCPO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 04:38 PM   #17
Squidward
 
Squidward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Azle, TX
Posts: 5,167
5 Magics MX school is good for anyone that wants to do any motocross, arenacross, or supercross riding. The skills developed in this class can be useful in trail riding as well. Unfortunately, I don't think it's a class that the BMW guys would want to subject their bikes too, but there were a few guys there on XR650's and DRZ650's that did rather well.
Squidward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 04:51 PM   #18
gotdurt
Master Bandage Tester
 
gotdurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Leander, Tx
Posts: 4,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy Weasel
Maybe it's a dumb question, but why avoid 2 strokes? I mean, I know the whole power per CC comparison to a 4 stroke, but why avoid a smaller (displacement) and presumably lighter 2 stroke bike?
:scratch
Imagine riding a 'Busa with an on/off switch instead of a throttle. Now, throw some trees into the mix... Maybe that's stretching it slightly... but close. Riding a 2-stroke on tight trails is tricky, especially if you are accustomed to a 4, the power is close to all or nothing, so you basically use the clutch for a throttle. You also have to keep your revs up at all times or you'll have to deal with fouled plugs on the trails. 4-strokes have torque, which requires less gear-shifting, and the power delivery is much more variable. They also require much less maintenance. The weight difference between a 230lb bike and a 260lb bike is negligable for a beginner who's going to be riding at lower speeds, and believe me, an XR250R can be ridden PLENTY fast. I would just suggest you learn to ride off-road on a friendly bike, then learn to ride a 2-stroke, which is a whole new lesson in itself.

I prefer 4-strokes for trail riding myself, regardless experience. I've never had a problem keeping up with my 2-stroke buddies on my 300lb 600+cc bikes, in fact it was often the other way around. I learned to trail ride on a '84 KLR600. On a MX track it's a different story...

Hey Squidward, did you once live in Florida? There's a 'Squidward' on 'Thumper Talk' forums...
__________________
Casey
'80 CB750C
Youtube

"Not knowing where you're going is the best way to get somewhere you've never been..." -J. Peterman

"It's a long and rugged road and we don't know where it's headed, but we know it's gonna get us where we're goin'" - Wailin' Jennys
gotdurt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 05:00 PM   #19
Tx Rider
 
Tx Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Grapevine
Posts: 2,875
Yup get a 350 4 stroke and learn to thrash it, then go ride someone elses 2 stroke and see if ya like it. I never did and won't have a 2 stroke.

A 350 is also usually better for tight trails than say my 620 which can be a little big for some tight technical trails.
__________________
Formerly known as Dyna Sport
2004 KTM 625 SXC
2004 FZ1
1996 KTM 620 RXC
Grapevine, Tx.
Tx Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2005, 05:27 PM   #20
Squidward
 
Squidward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Azle, TX
Posts: 5,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotdurt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy Weasel
Maybe it's a dumb question, but why avoid 2 strokes? I mean, I know the whole power per CC comparison to a 4 stroke, but why avoid a smaller (displacement) and presumably lighter 2 stroke bike?
:scratch
Imagine riding a 'Busa with an on/off switch instead of a throttle. Now, throw some trees into the mix... Maybe that's stretching it slightly... but close. Riding a 2-stroke on tight trails is tricky, especially if you are accustomed to a 4, the power is close to all or nothing, so you basically use the clutch for a throttle. You also have to keep your revs up at all times or you'll have to deal with fouled plugs on the trails. 4-strokes have torque, which requires less gear-shifting, and the power delivery is much more variable. They also require much less maintenance. The weight difference between a 230lb bike and a 260lb bike is negligable for a beginner who's going to be riding at lower speeds, and believe me, an XR250R can be ridden PLENTY fast. I would just suggest you learn to ride off-road on a friendly bike, then learn to ride a 2-stroke, which is a whole new lesson in itself.

I prefer 4-strokes for trail riding myself, regardless experience. I've never had a problem keeping up with my 2-stroke buddies on my 300lb 600+cc bikes, in fact it was often the other way around. I learned to trail ride on a '84 KLR600. On a MX track it's a different story...

Hey Squidward, did you once live in Florida? There's a 'Squidward' on 'Thumper Talk' forums...
A properly setup 250 is a little better than an on/off switch for a powerband(a 125 on the other hand......gotta keep it on the pipe), but it's nowhere near as easy to trail ride as a 4-stroke. Your clutch hand will definitely get a workout on a 2-stroke(my preferred dirt eater )

Nope.....that is a different squidward....but I did live in Florida for a year.
Squidward is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Go Back   TWT Forums > Texas Dualsport Riding > General Dirtiness

Notices


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All Rights Reserved, Scott Friday 2003-18.
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=
Page generated in 0.26640 seconds with 10 queries