Track bike rental question

[bmwonder]

Hi all! I am a noob here. So first of all "Hi!"

Secondly. I was having a look at track bike rental through these people http://www.texastrackbikes.com/
I have no problem with the costs but I do have a question about the waiver
http://www.texastrackbikes.com/liability-waiver.htm

With full knowledge of these dangers, and intending to be legally bound, I hereby agree for myself and on behalf of all of my family and heirs to RELEASE TTB and any of its representatives, agents, directors, officers, members, fellow riders and owners of any equipment or property upon which the equipment is located, including but not
limited to the owner of the property on which the TTB rig is located from any and all liability claims, demands or any causes of action, and NOT TO SUE OR OTHERWISE make ANY CLAIMS against TTB or Owners whatsoever which may arise during my
participation in any activities of the motorcycle track day. I intend this RELEASE OF LIABILITY to be effective whether or not any loss, damage, injury or death RESULTS FROM THE NEGLIGENCE of the TTB, LLC.

Does this seem normal to you? They are asking you to sign away your rights even if the company is negligent. Seems a bit harsh, or am I wrong? Also there is no limit to the amount charged to your card in case of damage. This also seems a bit unfair. I think that there should be an upper limit on the potential costs. Say no more than the agreeed current market value of the bike. Signing away your negligence rights seems over the top though. Would this be enforcable? Anyone rented from these people and have any recomendations please?

[SRADkneedragger]

Would this be enforceable? in a word "No". But the harsh reality of things is this(as my lawyer often said) ANYONE in America with $100 and a grudge can sue anyone anywhere for anything.
Our Society has become so litigious that many venues just close rather than risk the liability. Witness Skateboard parks, Motorcross parks did you ever wonder why DragRacing is moving from 1/4 mile to 1/8 mile? It's because the higher speeds make Insurance way higher on the 1/4.
Want another example? When our local Drag Strip was open the owner "Leased" it to one of his employees. An employee who as a matter of fact owned nothing other than his home and bike. WHY? Because several times over the years people crashed race cars then tried to sue the Track OWNER, who promptly showed that he didn't operate it he merely owned it, then the individual would try to sue the "Operator/Lesee" and find out he had nothing to sue for. This in spite of the fact that everyone had signed a waiver.
In our Society today some people think they can sue others for their own mistake.
SRAD

[Skid]

I am guessing you haven't either signed or read a track day liability waiver either. They all basically say the same thing and that is you release them from everything. However, as my understanding, this document is worthless if negligence exists on behalf of the company.

BTW, from the little I know of Pete (the owner of Texas Track Bikes), he seems like a nice guy. I just think he is trying to protect himself to the best of his ability. You have to remember, this isn't the safest of business's to go into.

[Sleepy Weasel]

I sort of assume they're just trying to protect themselves from being sued by some guy who goes out there and trashes one of their bikes because he got himself in over his head, and some bright lawyer said "Hey, let's just cover ALL the bases, shall we?" Did it include the clause about acts of dog and/or God?

[texasyankee]

If you have trouble with the waiver, don't rent the bike or do the track day. No one is forcing you to do this.

[Chirpy]

Originally Posted by texasyankee

If you have trouble with the waiver, don't rent the bike or do the track day. No one is forcing you to do this.

+1

I'd also guess that the no limit to what can be put on your card is there precisely to make you have second thoughs about getting on the bike and riding like a yahoo on a borrowed bike. And it looks like it's working.

If you decide to do it, ride well within your limits and don't throw the bike down the track...and you won't have to worry about damages.

[Squeaky]

Like has been said, I think they're just covering their bases. If you were to crash, you could say "but the brake pads weren't up to par and that's why I crashed" but it was up to you to inspect the bike before taking posession of it at the track.

I don't know of anyone in this sport that would intentionally try to harm you by renting you a bike that isn't track ready - but it's up to you to make sure they don't miss something BEFORE you go out there.

[bmwonder]

I don't want to suggest in any way that these guys are not straight up decent people and I have thrown a couple of bikes down the track and know that it hurts. However I don't want to sign a form that says if some idiot has screwed a sump plug up to the wrong torque and it pours oil over the tire or a coolant hose split 'cause no one's replaced it for a few years then I don't want to sign my rights away (I have seen both of those happen on track). Lets face it most of us know our own bikes inside out. But when we are renting we expect this to be done for us, that is part of the deal that we are paying for right? Saying I can't sue you if you are totally negligent is never enforcable in my opinion. No court would every accept that so why put it in?

This is different issue to accepting responsibility for my own actions which (often) causes me to lose it.

I would love to get some recomendations from anyone who has used them as I would like to do this as my CBR929 won't be ready for a while yet.

[ed29]

Hmmm... looking at the schedule I may have to pick either the September or November event and give this a go. Renting one of their SVs would be better than riding the big bike in many ways. Either way there is financial risk if I bounce a bike and I am thinking that fixing the track bike would be less expensive than fixing my FJR. Not that I am planning on bouncing a bike, just allowing for any scenario.

I would have to do a thorough inspection of the bike before I took possession as Squeaky and others have said. I think I would want to talk to Pete and know the history of the bike being rented... as in... has it been in any hard crashes, ever have any frame repairs or tweaking, how many track days have the current tires been run, etc.

[bmwonder]

Ed, An SV650 would probably be a lot faster round a track than your FJ. I have taken big bikes on trake (mainly my BMW R1100S) and its great fun but you really find the limits of them fairly quickly. That's a big bike to hussle round a tight track. Not that it can't be done with style mind you .

I would feel happier knowing that there are some regular, repeat renters out there and get their feedback.

[hardybaker]

Pete is a real "stand-up" kind of guy. I am glad he ventured off into this rental business as it makes it easier for us riders to get a chance to get quality track time and training. Inspect the bike proir to riding it, (and I'm sure you'll find it prepared properly) sign the waiver and ride it. You'll be glad you did. Hardy

[bmwonder]

Originally Posted by hardybaker

Pete is a real "stand-up" kind of guy. I am glad he ventured off into this rental business as it makes it easier for us riders to get a chance to get quality track time and training. Inspect the bike proir to riding it, (and I'm sure you'll find it prepared properly) sign the waiver and ride it. You'll be glad you did. Hardy

thanks

[Skid]

I see these bikes just about every track day I go to. I would have no issue getting on one of them at any time. The SV's aren't beauty queens, but are mechanically sound and maintained.

[ed29]

Thanks for the info folks, Good to see people that I know, trust, and respect are vouching for Pete and his business. That carries a lot of weight with me.

I can see how I could get quicker lap times faster and more comfortably on the SV than the FJR. The smaller, lighter, less powerful machine would be easier to keep momentum up in the corners. It is like going from my blast fast CRF-450 with 54 ponies and jumping on the XR-250 with maybe 14 ponies on a good day. The slower bike encourages smoother cornering since there is not the big bag of power to blast off the apex with. Corner entrance is smoother too since entry speeds are closer to the terminal straight away speed and the brakes don't get engaged as hard.

I guess I should nail down the date that I can do this and get my reservation in on the bike.

Sorry for the thread-jack.

[Skid]

Originally Posted by ed29

I can see how I could get quicker lap times faster and more comfortably on the SV than the FJR. The smaller, lighter, less powerful machine would be easier to keep momentum up in the corners. It is like going from my blast fast CRF-450 with 54 ponies and jumping on the XR-250 with maybe 14 ponies on a good day. The slower bike encourages smoother cornering since there is not the big bag of power to blast off the apex with. Corner entrance is smoother too since entry speeds are closer to the terminal straight away speed and the brakes don't get engaged as hard.

This really would depend on the track. At TWS and possibly MSR-Houston, I would bet you would be considerably faster on the FJR than you would be on the SV. Now, GrandSport Speedway would be a different matter all together. I wouldn't even want to think about a FJR on it.

[bmwonder]

Originally Posted by Skid

This really would depend on the track. At TWS and possibly MSR-Houston, I would bet you would be considerably faster on the FJR than you would be on the SV. Now, GrandSport Speedway would be a different matter all together. I wouldn't even want to think about a FJR on it.

This sounds like a challenge!! Personally I think that you would cook the brakes on the FJ fairly quickly. That extra weight, which is not an issue on the road, becomes more obvious on the track. I think that the gearing on the FJ would be against you as well. I would prefer to maintain the higher corner speed of the SV. Sounds like it might be fun to try though eh? Anyway it's really good fun to watch a good rider on a totally unsuitable bike passing race rep 600s and 1000s (unless it's me of course).

[Skid]

I don't know. I had a student on a K1200GT on his first track day running 1:55's at MSR-Houston. The fastest novice on a SV650 in D Superstock from this weekend only had a best lap of 1:49.131 with 6th place's (mid pack finisher) best lap at 2:01.055.