So, you want a Dualsport?

[gotdurt]

Since Scott's dualsport fever seems to be spreading like wildfire, and I've been asked about DS bikes a number of times, I thought I'd post a thread regarding different DS bikes available, and where they fit. There's lots to consider, but this is an overview to provide a little direction to those considering getting dirty. This PM was asking in regard to 650's, but I touched on all popular 'DS' bikes.

Hey there,.......After reading all the stories and looking at the pic's of the D/S bikes and roads of this past weekend, I now, more than ever want to get serious about getting a D/S bike....I've been toying with the idea for
awhile.......Need advice on what's out there in the medium size......Don't think I want a 1000+cc dirt bike, much less the $ cost and weight. Last dirt bike I had were the open classers CR 500 & KX 500.........I need to know if the 650cc range bikes are road worthy and able to do 1500 miles pavement in a 3 day weekend and do the dirt in style not just the fire roads like the bigger GS's are limited to.

Bikes:...... Honda XR 650,.......Kaw KLR 650,.....Suzuki, KTM, MZ........Any suggestions would greatly help.........

They (the 650's) are all capable of racking up the miles, it really depends on the type of riding you want to do and your tolerance for pain . Unlike the big bikes, none of them are big on power, so keeping your pack weight down is something to consider. What you loose in power and comfort you gain in nimbleness and trail capability. It can be exhausting riding a 650 1500mi in 3 days on the highway, but even more exhausting riding a fully loaded GS on technical surfaces. So, you have to be realistic about what you are going use the bike for....

If you think it'll be more highway and rough paved backroads with some graded dirt roads thrown in, then lean road oriented, if you are going to be chasing deer trails or riding where there are no trails, and ride roads only to connect those trails then get a non-legal dirt bike and make it legal...

Here is the the order of dirt capability of the most popular bikes available, starting with the more street oriented and ending with trail (including the big bikes):

Suzuki DL1000/650 - hot rod (compared to most DS's) street bike with a couple extra inches of suspension travel. I wouldn't take it beyond graded dirt roads.

BMW R1100/1150/1200GS - BIG, WIDE, HEAVY, COMFY! Think of it as the 4X4 Suburban of DS bikes. Touring accessories galore. Best kept to graded dirt, but jeep trail capable if you're brave.

Triumph Tiger - I've read really good things about these. Narrower than the GS and supposedly a bit more dirt capable. Very powerful. This would be my choice of big DS's.

BMW F650GS - heavy, soft and low, they have more touring accessories than most of the other bikes.

KTM 950 Adventure - Well, actually this would be my choice of the bigguns, but cost prohibitive .

BMW F650GS Dakar - same as GS, just better suspension and ground clearance.

Kawasaki KLR650 - Heavy and soft but surprisingly dirt capable, lots of aftermarket accessories for touring, comes stock with a 6 gal tank, great value. Not pretty though.

Suzuki DR650 - Looks more dirt oriented than it is. Soft suspension, doesn't have as much after market support as the KLR for touring, or the XR for dirt/performance. Good all around compromise though; it can tour, it can singletrack. Air cooled with an oil cooler. This is probably my next bike.

Honda XR650L - Not much available for road touring, but probably has the largest aftermarket following for offroad performance than any other DS bike. The RFVC XR/XL family has been around for a long time and are known for bullet proof reliability. The XRL has nearly 12 full" inches of suspension travel and 14" ground clearance with knobbies. This is also the tallest DS with over 37" seat height (higher with large knobbies). Air cooled.

KTM LC4 (640) - Powerfull and mostly dirt oriented, more modern design and motocross-like geometry. I think KTM discontinued it in the US.

KTM 625SXC - Bad to the bone street legal dirt bike.

DRZ400 - Mostly dirt oriented. About the same hp as many of the 650's but less torque, so might be tiring on long, highspeed rides, especially loaded.

Since I put a lot of dirt/offroad miles on a XR650L, I'll expand on that experience; great bike! Slightly under powered IMHO, but the aftermarket can take care of that if you need it, and they respond well to the usual intake and exhaust mods. It's basically a stroked XR600 with an electric start (after you put it on a diet and strip it of all it's 'junk'), and set up properly, performs surprisingly well in just about any terrain. I've ridden along with 2-stroke MX bikes with no problems keeping up (if they could keep up ) and never had to avoid any obstacle/ terrain that they rode (doesn't mean I didn't have to work at it). Torque is plentiful; the dirt bike guys had to really work to keep up on steep climbs and open high speed sections. It's weight and soft (compared to MX) long travel suspension allowed it to soak up the terrain at speed. I also used it for longer rides, such as a 6 day, 1100+ mile trip to Baja. This was a mostly rough jeep trail trip loaded with camping gear. I don't recall any comfort issues, although I spent a great deal of time standing... The longest day ride I've done was almost 600 miles of about 50/50 pavement and dirt roads, with some more difficult trails thrown in as shortcuts. I did sleep well that night . The 'L' has plenty of oomf to cruise 80 all day, even with the shorter gearing I used. At these highway speeds, however, the tall, light (compared to street bikes) bike is like a kite in the wind, and can be exhausting if you aren't up to it. The seat is wide enough, and has room for modification. You'd have to be creative for more serious highway set-up. The Arizona desert is extremely unforgiving on ORV's, but the XR took what I gave out, desite my brutal abuse. Among the casualties as a result of my relentless abuse, it suffered a couple of frame breaks, a broken foot peg, a destroyed front wheel, and we won't even talk about the plasics... but mechanically it kept on ticking. To give an idea of their reputaion and demand in the west, I still was able to sell it for $2100, despite it's mileage and worn, ragged appearance, before I moved back to Texas.

Hope this helps. Now, go get a bike and prepare for the race to sign up for this.

[WoodButcher]

Nice write up. One thing I noticed about the BMW 650GS (and Dakar) is that their load capacity is very near the big GS. I was kind of suprised by that.

I liked reading the Big Bend write up and seeing a variety of DS bikes out there, including a DRZ like mine. Those videos show that you can do those dirt roads on the full range you mention.

The one thing about that trip is that I would have probably trailered the DRZ down there since it is a bit uncomfortable on long road sections. It will do the miles fine though, my rear can't handle it

[Tourmeister]

The DRZ was trailered

The Dakar had trouble running much over 70-75mph, even worse for the DRZ. A KLR would not be much better. If I had time to burn, I'd ride a KLR out there at a LIESURELY pace. At the pace we were running, it would have been pretty miserable. The KTM seemed to handle the higher speeds best of the thumpers.

Adios,

[Adan]

Originally Posted by Tourmeister

The Dakar had trouble running much over 70-75mph

:scratch

Maybe the Dakar has different sprokets/gearing, my (now Pete's) baby GS didn't seem to mind prolonged highway speeds with the stock setup & DS tires. It actually smoothed out pretty good at those speeds, and still had some margin left for passing.

[Tx Rider]

My GPS was showing 96 MPH top speed on the trip computer if I can trust that. I had a very tall 16:40 sprocket set on my bike for the Big Bend trip, when I was riding it in serious dirt I used a 16:48 or a 16:52 sprocket set.

The lighter dirt bikes don't like high speeds very much though even if they can do it. Mine has the the power but winds at those speeds really toss you around.

I also have 4 counter sprockets, and can change gearing in about 10 minutes just dropping a tooth or two in the front can move from tall road gears to a shorter dirt gearing without changing chain length. A 650 needs that flexibility and I'd recommend having the extra sprocket/s.

KTM has stopped importing the LC4 line (620/625/640/640 adventure) but only in the U.S. Europe still gets them and possibly Canada.

From what I hear they are importing like 50 640 adventures period this year and only some supermoto 625smc's. There are a few low mileage '04's around though, two over on ktmtalk for under 5k.

I went with KTM LC4 based bikes as even though they are large they can do the MX and woods stuff that a gs650 or a KLR would have harder time at and have top notch parts and tough as nails frames etc. with great torque and power. The honda 650r would be about as good though.

If I wasn't planning on hard techical trails and wooded single track etc. on occasion I'd probably just have a KLR.

Riding off road your weight isn't on the seat a lot so your **** fares ok, riding long road trips you need a custom seat. Several folks make new seat foams and covers, and guys like James at renazco racing specialize in dual sport seats. The airhawk pad I used this last weekend is the only reason I can walk this week after 1750 miles on that bike with a stock seat.

[Tx Rider]

BTW There's a nice Honda 650 for sale rightover in the for sale topic!

You know you want one!!

[bushwhacker]

I have the Tiger and this weekend took it off road a little in the Bandera area. A six mile stretch of dirt road with a few minor hills and curves were almost like pavement to it. With the exception of a single 90 degree uphill left turn right after a low water crossing it was extremely easy going at 40-50 mph.

Another stretch about 9 miles long between 335 and 336 was another story. A number of dry stream beds with golf ball to base ball size rocks. Some of these were 6-8 feet deep and only 15-20 feet apart which meant you were going down and back up 30 degree or steeper grades.

Constant 90 degree turns and switch backs with trees overhanging into the road.

Bed rock coming straight out of the road in front of you.

I have very little off road experience, but the Tiger did me proud, getting me thru there with only a couple of front wheel slides and one serious rear wheel bounce which I think was due to insufficient rebound damping and not a single dropped bike.

Ed Gardner, who also occasionally posts here, was ahead of me leading the way, also on a Tiger.

I think for any semi serious off roading I may pick up a KLR 250 but for dirt and gravel roads and light off road the Tiger is great.

-

[Hoop]

Originally Posted by Dyna Sport

The bike in front is XR650Rocketman, I'm on the DRZ in back. Just after this picture was taken, Rocketman slid the back tire sideways to try to roost the cameraman. It was cool. Then we stopped to play with a rattlesnake, no kidding. My DRZ was geared down 1 tooth in the front for woods riding, I really needed stock gearing or higher to run the pace in these parts!

[Bandit33]

Yes, I definitely trailered the DRZ down there for the ride. Once there, I rode all over the place. The seat would not have been real comfortable for a long 9 hour drive.

Don

[buck000]

In my short time with the dr650, I like it at any speed under about 50 mph, but above that, the slick Corbin seat and lack of a fairing conspire to make for a pretty painful ride on the highways-to-get-to-the-fun-stuff.

What do folks do for this? I realize a windshield would help, but I'm wondering about protecting the legs from windblast; would tank panniers help at all?

[gotdurt]

Originally Posted by buck000

What do folks do for this? I realize a windshield would help, but I'm wondering about protecting the legs from windblast; would tank panniers help at all?

What many do for a windshield is get a aftermarket windscreen for a rectangular headlight that clamps onto the handlebar.

[Tx Rider]

If you don't like the wind a dirt bike style dual sport isn't going to be for you, and a gs650, 1150 or a maybe KLR with that little fairing would be better. Maybe the faired ktm adventure but I haven't ridden one to know how well that little fairing works.

Personally I like the wind on all my bikes, I just need enough wind blocked from my chest that it isn't pushing me off the seat at 80mph. I try to wear gear that doesn't flap so the wind doesn't beat me up.

Here's a pic of my KTM solution. Simple piece of plexiglass heated with a heat gun and bent to match the number plate, a couple of thumbscrews and tabbed bolts from the hardware store and it's done. 1hr and a few dollars. Could be made 6" taller just as easily but I like my head in clear air.

Can be removed in 30 seconds.

http://killer.playnet.com/pics/ktmstuff/KIF_0859.JPG

Also as for legs, the radiator shrouds do block some wind from the upper legs on the water cooled bikes.

[WoodButcher]

Originally Posted by Dyna Sport

Here's a pic of my KTM solution. Simple piece of plexiglass heated with a heat gun and bent to match the number plate, a couple of thumbscrews and tabbed bolts from the hardware store and it's done. 1hr and a few dollars. Could be made 6" taller just as easily but I like my head in clear air.

Can be removed in 30 seconds.

http://killer.playnet.com/pics/ktmstuff/KIF_0859.JPG

What thickness of plexiglass? I was considering something like that for the DRZ.

[Tourmeister]

Bushwhacker, was that road between 335 and 336 open all the way through? I have heard it is usually locked on either end about a third of the way out from the FM's. Is it not private property?

Adios,

[Tx Rider]

Originally Posted by WoodButcher

What thickness of plexiglass? I was considering something like that for the DRZ.

That stuff is pretty thin, I think 1/16", I was looking for 1/8" but couldn't find any that afternoon. Just a little sheet of acrylic I grabbed from the hardware store.

[bushwhacker]

Originally Posted by Tourmeister

Bushwhacker, was that road between 335 and 336 open all the way through? I have heard it is usually locked on either end about a third of the way out from the FM's. Is it not private property?

Adios,

The road we took was 2631 on one end, 3235 on the other and I have no idea what in the middle or whether or not it was private property but we made it all the way thru and no one told us we should not be there.

It had, I think, 3 bump gates and one gate that had a bike chain on it but none were locked. There was a sign on the one gate asking to keep the gate closed due to livestock.

If you have a garmin mapsource program I can send you my track file, The road varied from the GPS just before the gate that had to be opened manually and we thought we may have taken a wrong turn. We could not see another road where the GPS said it was so we kept going and it curved back into the GPS map.

-

[Tourmeister]

That's the road I was thinking of. I've wondered about it for years and simply have never had the chance to go find out for myself

[brewer90]

I just rode this road on Saturday with four other guys on F650s. We went from the east off 336 to the west and hit 335. It was dusty and fun but not technical at all. We didn't have a GPS and were winging it but it's pretty obvious which is the correct road once you go through the first big green gate.

[fastmonstr]

Originally Posted by Dyna Sport

BTW There's a nice Honda 650 for sale rightover in the for sale topic!

You know you want one!!

Hey, I recognize that pic!!!

[Hoop]

that's a nice picture. It looks like I'm going fast too.