Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) / 4 Gal Min mandate

10-13-2010, 03:22 PM

I ranted about the ethanol bubble about a year ago here.

It looks like the EPA would permit a higher blend of ethanol in gasoline today.

SEYA,

RB

TWTim · 10-13-2010, 04:03 PM

Ugh. I was hoping this wouldn't happen, but the ethanol lobby is apparently becoming powerful enough to force it through.

Kawasaki, the maker of all my bikes, is adamant in their bulletins that ethanol of any concentration is not to be used in their engines. It wasn't a huge concern for me when we discussed this subject in the other thread, but unfortunately a lot has changed in the past year, and it's now becoming difficult to find ethanol-free fuel in West Texas.

I'm worried about the life of my engines. I take a lot of pride in the care my bikes receive, and it's infuriating to think that some bought-and-paid-for EPA mandate is gonna end up ruining my motorcycles.

I think it's time someone developed and marketed a safe system for removing the ethanol from fuel at home. Get to work, chemists and engineers!

**1TallTXn** · 10-13-2010, 04:31 PM

The owners manual for my VFR says its safe to run up to 10% ethanol. Beyond that is not allowed.
Does the EPA expect us to purchase a new vehicle, meeting their "better" standards, every time they change their mind?

This is of course ignoring that my fuel mileage went down noticeably with the E10, and the fact that E10 loses 30% of its effectiveness compared to E0!

**SL350** · 10-13-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Kreitz

Ugh. I was hoping this wouldn't happen, but the ethanol lobby is apparently becoming powerful enough to force it through.

Kawasaki, the maker of all my bikes, is adamant in their bulletins that ethanol of any concentration is not to be used in their engines. It wasn't a huge concern for me when we discussed this subject in the other thread, but unfortunately a lot has changed in the past year, and it's now becoming difficult to find ethanol-free fuel in West Texas.

I'm worried about the life of my engines. I take a lot of pride in the care my bikes receive, and it's infuriating to think that some bought-and-paid-for EPA mandate is gonna end up ruining my motorcycles.

I think it's time someone developed and marketed a safe system for removing the ethanol from fuel at home. Get to work, chemists and engineers!

Tim, it might be a little bother but you could buy av-gas at your local airport.

JacknTexas · 10-13-2010, 04:37 PM

So we are going to get worse fuel that gives less mpg?

Then after Nov. '10, we are looking at a higher gas tax from the Feds from what I am gathering in the news. Mr. O. did get my attention when he claimed that the 50 billion for infrastructure "investment" will not come from deficit spending. Seems like he does have a plan to pay for it.

41 million on food stamps, I guess fuel stamps are next.

aggie81 · 10-13-2010, 04:41 PM

We should see unleaded avgas in 2012. It'll probably be 94 motor octane number. I'll be running it in everything I have if E15 shows up. We're still able to get conventional gasoline north of the DFW area, but I bet it won't be around much longer. How about some legislation to force the corn farmers to mix that swill with the diesel fuel they burn. What's sauce for the goose.....

TWTim · 10-13-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SL350

Tim, it might be a little bother but you could buy av-gas at your local airport.

Yes. I've run AvGas blended with pump gas in the past. Luckily, an acquaintance of mine owns an aviation maintenance company, so I have a resource.

gospeed81 · 10-13-2010, 04:55 PM

There's always people fighting for our side:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010...NEWS/101019991

khager · 10-13-2010, 05:01 PM

Yea this SUX bigtime, but the way I am reading it for now anyway, there will be a choice, and as long as there is a choice I will not use it, actually I don't think anybody will use it. I sure wish I could find some real gas around here but the closest place I know is in OK.

**JVRx7** · 10-13-2010, 05:04 PM

Just as a point of reference, if your bike, car, or other internal combustion engine devices have a catalytic converter you'll want to stay away from 100LL avgas (blue in color) as it contains lead. Lead and cats do not play well with each other, period, and cats ain't cheap. No cat, "should" be no problems. 100LL contains about 3 times the amount of lead that regular leaded car gas used to have, so "clinkers" or lead fouling that might lead to pre-ignition "could" be an issue.

Regards,
J

**1TallTXn** · 10-13-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVRx7

Just as a point of reference, if your bike, car, or other internal combustion engine devices have a catalytic converter you'll want to stay away from 100LL avgas (blue in color) as it contains lead. Lead and cats do not play well with each other, period, and cats ain't cheap. No cat, "should" be no problems. 100LL contains about 3 times the amount of lead that regular leaded car gas used to have, so "clinkers" or lead fouling that might lead to pre-ignition "could" be an issue.

Regards,
J

I'm sure my '71 Mustang with a 302cid would love that

**JVRx7** · 10-13-2010, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TallTXn

I'm sure my '71 Mustang with a 302cid would love that

At $3.50 to $6.30 a gallon, in your area

, although the engine would "purr"

, I'm guessin' you'd be

at every fill-up.

Another "up-side" to avgas is that unlike mogas, it doesn't go "stale" so no need for Stabil when you put toys up for a long nap...

J

KenH · 10-13-2010, 08:44 PM

Mix 100LL with mogas at 1:3 for use in vehicles without cats.

I can get 87 octane gasoline local. The 93 my 550 requires is a bit more difficult.

E15 is a bad joke, foisted on us by a lying ethanol lobby.

**bluedogok** · 10-13-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TallTXn

Does the EPA expect us to purchase a new vehicle, meeting their "better" standards, every time they change their mind?

Yes....yes they do. For the economy you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenH

E15 is a bad joke, foisted on us by a lying ethanol lobby.

...and the politicians they buy.

**rickmillertx** · 10-13-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Kreitz

Ugh. I was hoping this wouldn't happen, but the ethanol lobby is apparently becoming powerful enough to force it through.

I'm worried about the life of my engines.

I think it's time someone developed and marketed a safe system for removing the ethanol from fuel at home. Get to work, chemists and engineers!

Try Phiten Titanium Necklaces. They have amazing abilities.

MIKEYLIKESIT · 10-13-2010, 10:35 PM

forgive my ignorance, but what does ethanol do to the engine? i know it eats fuel lines and all. i could google, but i like it here better.

DFW_Warrior · 10-13-2010, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT

forgive my ignorance, but what does ethanol do to the engine? i know it eats fuel lines and all. i could google, but i like it here better.

I was going to ask the very same thing. I have a 2004 Strom with close to 80k miles on it (if I were to guess, probably 60k of them have been with ethanol in the gas) and so far I haven't seen any ill effects other than a slight dip in mileage. Do I like regular gas better, sure! But I personally haven't seen anything near as horrid as the internet stories would have someone thinking I should be having.

**EdSidders** · 10-13-2010, 11:14 PM

Ethanol has delt me mucho misery in my antique and classic cars...Sold nearly everything because of the problems ..What I have kept gets a dose of ''marine stabil''-- cost about twice as much as regular stabil but it is designed to counteract the effects of ethanol...Working so far but the jury is still out...Havn't tried it in fiberglass tanks...

FrayAdjacent · 10-14-2010, 02:06 AM

As far as I understand, it's not the engine itself that suffers, it's the fuel system that can be corroded by the ethanol in the mix. Given my bike is 15 years old, I'd be worried about that the most.

ItchyBob · 10-14-2010, 06:15 AM

15% ethanol will also start causing stress corrosion cracking in carbon steel. That includes most transport pipelines and a lot of storage tanks. NACE

10-13-2010, 03:22 PM	#1
Red Brown Guest Posts: n/a	Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) / 4 Gal Min mandate I ranted about the ethanol bubble about a year ago here. It looks like the EPA would permit a higher blend of ethanol in gasoline today. SEYA, RB

10-13-2010, 04:03 PM	#2
TWTim Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Midland Posts: 9,723	Re: Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) Ugh. I was hoping this wouldn't happen, but the ethanol lobby is apparently becoming powerful enough to force it through. Kawasaki, the maker of all my bikes, is adamant in their bulletins that ethanol of any concentration is not to be used in their engines. It wasn't a huge concern for me when we discussed this subject in the other thread, but unfortunately a lot has changed in the past year, and it's now becoming difficult to find ethanol-free fuel in West Texas. I'm worried about the life of my engines. I take a lot of pride in the care my bikes receive, and it's infuriating to think that some bought-and-paid-for EPA mandate is gonna end up ruining my motorcycles. I think it's time someone developed and marketed a safe system for removing the ethanol from fuel at home. Get to work, chemists and engineers! __________________ 2004 Kawasaki ZRX1200R 2003 Kawasaki ZX7R 1978 Kawasaki KZ1000 Limited www.timkreitz.com

10-13-2010, 04:31 PM	#3
1TallTXn Skinny guy on a bike Forum Supporter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Cleburne, TX Posts: 10,435	Re: Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) The owners manual for my VFR says its safe to run up to 10% ethanol. Beyond that is not allowed. Does the EPA expect us to purchase a new vehicle, meeting their "better" standards, every time they change their mind? This is of course ignoring that my fuel mileage went down noticeably with the E10, and the fact that E10 loses 30% of its effectiveness compared to E0! __________________ Nathan Burleson Mafia Hitman 2002 VFR800STi \| 1982 XR200R \| 1983 GL1100 Aspencade \| 1985 GL1200 Aspencade -Earl IBA# 31895 -------- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin "...what is the militia? It is the whole people, except a few public officials." - George Mason 1788

10-13-2010, 04:37 PM	#5
JacknTexas Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Huntsville,Tx Posts: 2,999	Re: Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) So we are going to get worse fuel that gives less mpg? Then after Nov. '10, we are looking at a higher gas tax from the Feds from what I am gathering in the news. Mr. O. did get my attention when he claimed that the 50 billion for infrastructure "investment" will not come from deficit spending. Seems like he does have a plan to pay for it. 41 million on food stamps, I guess fuel stamps are next. __________________ .........Jack Tiger 1050--ZZR 1200--VMax 1200--KTM SXC 625--KLR 650 The best Rx is repeat as needed. Click here for TWT member recommended places to dine while on a ride.

10-13-2010, 04:41 PM	#6
aggie81 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rural Denton County Posts: 538	Re: Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) We should see unleaded avgas in 2012. It'll probably be 94 motor octane number. I'll be running it in everything I have if E15 shows up. We're still able to get conventional gasoline north of the DFW area, but I bet it won't be around much longer. How about some legislation to force the corn farmers to mix that swill with the diesel fuel they burn. What's sauce for the goose.....

10-13-2010, 04:55 PM	#8
gospeed81 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Willis, TX Posts: 468	Re: Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) There's always people fighting for our side: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010...NEWS/101019991 __________________ Damon Current love: 1983 GL650 - cafe build Loves lost: Honda PC800, Suzuki Bandit 1200, Kawasaki ZR-7S, Honda CBX, Suzuki SV650, Honda VFR750, Honda CBR900RR, Triumph Daytona 955i, Kawasaki Ninja 500R, Yamaha XS650, Honda CM400T

10-13-2010, 05:01 PM	#9
khager Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Granbury Posts: 313	Re: Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) Yea this SUX bigtime, but the way I am reading it for now anyway, there will be a choice, and as long as there is a choice I will not use it, actually I don't think anybody will use it. I sure wish I could find some real gas around here but the closest place I know is in OK. __________________ K12 DL650AL2 The Orange Machine! K7 Wee-Strom RIP!

10-13-2010, 05:04 PM	#10
JVRx7 Forum Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kress, TX Posts: 835	Re: Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) Just as a point of reference, if your bike, car, or other internal combustion engine devices have a catalytic converter you'll want to stay away from 100LL avgas (blue in color) as it contains lead. Lead and cats do not play well with each other, period, and cats ain't cheap. No cat, "should" be no problems. 100LL contains about 3 times the amount of lead that regular leaded car gas used to have, so "clinkers" or lead fouling that might lead to pre-ignition "could" be an issue. Regards, J __________________ JVRx7 - 2K BMW K1200LT I'm living well above my means, but far below my standards. "Well now me & my friends are gettin' long in the tooth After 3 or 4 decades of seeking the truth Tryin' to recover from a mis-spent youth And gradually givin' in to knowledge..." AMA, BMWRAI, BMWMOA, NRA, TSRA, et al.

10-13-2010, 08:44 PM	#13
KenH Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lost in space Posts: 10,414	Re: Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) Mix 100LL with mogas at 1:3 for use in vehicles without cats. I can get 87 octane gasoline local. The 93 my 550 requires is a bit more difficult. E15 is a bad joke, foisted on us by a lying ethanol lobby. __________________ It only takes 12 horsepower to ride around the world. The rest is just wheelspin. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone. "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within the limits of the law" because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." - Thomas Jefferson

10-13-2010, 10:35 PM	#16
MIKEYLIKESIT Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Porter/New Caney Posts: 1,567	Re: Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) forgive my ignorance, but what does ethanol do to the engine? i know it eats fuel lines and all. i could google, but i like it here better. __________________ 2002 Triumph Trophy 1200 (Misty) PGR# 126703 No matter where you go------There you are... 4 out of the 5 voices in my head say go for it!! (305): If God's watching us, we might as well be entertaining

10-13-2010, 11:14 PM	#18
EdSidders Forum Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Lake-O-The-Pines(Ore City) Posts: 858	Re: Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) Ethanol has delt me mucho misery in my antique and classic cars...Sold nearly everything because of the problems ..What I have kept gets a dose of ''marine stabil''-- cost about twice as much as regular stabil but it is designed to counteract the effects of ethanol...Working so far but the jury is still out...Havn't tried it in fiberglass tanks... __________________ A Wild and Crazy teenager stuck in a Broken Down Old Fart's Body..... It's Never Too Late To Have A HAPPY CHILDHOOD 60+ Years on 2 wheels 79 Triumph 750 Bonneville survivor 4K Miles 74 Moto Guzzi Eldorado California/Ural Sidecar project 08 Honda Rebel - Gas sipper 07 Yamaha FJR 79 Kaw KZ1000ST Vetter/Kaw factory option Dressed (Gone to motorcycle Purgatory , Good UJM but never had a Soul)

10-14-2010, 02:06 AM	#19
FrayAdjacent Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Elgin Posts: 184	Re: Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) As far as I understand, it's not the engine itself that suffers, it's the fuel system that can be corroded by the ethanol in the mix. Given my bike is 15 years old, I'd be worried about that the most. __________________ "The existence of the flamethrower is evidence that someone, somewhere, once said 'I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't want to have to walk over there to do it.'" 1995 Honda ST1100

10-14-2010, 06:15 AM	#20
ItchyBob Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Cowtown Posts: 668	Re: Ethanol in motorcycles (15 percent coming soon!) 15% ethanol will also start causing stress corrosion cracking in carbon steel. That includes most transport pipelines and a lot of storage tanks. NACE __________________ A skeleton walks into a bar. It orders a beer and a mop.

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