"Rumble" bumps embedded in lane striping?

[Tourmeister]

Howdy,

At the Pie Run in Sealy yesterday, there was speculation that the white stripes on FM 1458 had something in them that made bikes get all wiggly if they crossed it or hit it and that this may have contributed to the accident of the rider that was on his way to the Pie Run.

Coming home from the Pie Run, I was stopped on FM 1791 South of Huntsville because there was some kind of road work in progress. At first, all I thought was that they were repainting the stripes. I did not talk to the flagman about what they were doing. At the time I was coming through, they were done for the day and just cleaning up everything. So I did not give it much thought at the time.

Later than evening, I got a call from Pkiser. He too had stopped on the way back at 1791, but he spoke with the guys about what they were doing. It seems they are putting some kind of raised bumps in the stripes and then painting over them, effectively making them invisible. The purpose of the bumps is to create a rumble sound similar to what happens if you wander off the right or left side of the interstates where they have those divots in the pavement. These alert the drivers that they are veering out of their lanes and need to correct. The ones on the freeway aren't really a problem for most bikes. However, the ones embedded in the stripes are close enough to each other and high enough relative to the pavement that they can affect the bikes.

When Phil told me about this, I immediately flashed back to the last bit of riding up 1791. I had passed two vehicles, each in a passing zone, but when I crossed the center line the bike got real wiggly each time. I did not give it much thought at the time because my dirt riding has made me MUCH less worried about wiggling motions of the bike. Phil mentioned that he actually experimented with crossing the stripes at various speeds on his way up 1791 and he was NOT happy with the way they affected the handling of the bike! It would be one thing for an experienced rider to hit these without realizing they were there ahead of time, but for an inexperienced rider it could be really bad!! This would be especially true if the rider hits them in a curve. They effectively create an edge trap for the wheels, similar to when you have uneven layers of pavement next to each other.

Has anyone else seen these or had experience with them? It seems to me to be yet another "Safety" feature that totally ignores that there are bikes on the roads and the potential negative effects on bikes.

[bigjnsa]

During the summer when TxDOT was repaving I-37 south of San Antonio, I came across massive grinding groves in the pavement. Not much notice and hit it doing roughly 75mph. That was the scariest, butt pucker moment I have ever had on the bike. I can only imagine if these new lane markers are the same.

[WoodButcher]

I'd love to see some pictures from different angles to see what they look like. Just to see how close and how tall they are.

Might help with the cagers going wide in corners, but the downside is it might not be good for us.

Edit: A little google work shows this doc from 2003. With pictures.

http://tti.tamu.edu/documents/0-4472-1.pdf

[bluedogok]

They have been in some areas for years, just a "development" of the old Botts Dots or Stimsonite reflectors, just spaced closer together for the many space case drivers out there. They were definitely not designed with motorcycles in mind.

I hate them....

[Jbay]

The bumps are likely paint nothing is painted over

raised profile thermoplastic

not very bumpy compared to milled shoulder texture

[Hotboot]

You should see the new ones on Ark. Hwy. 7....3" deep and 3" apart. Hit those on a bike and you go sideways. Makes it hard to pass on the double yellow now.

[bluedogok]

Originally Posted by Jbay

The bumps are likely paint nothing is painted over

raised profile thermoplastic

not very bumpy compared to milled shoulder texture

I have seen some recently that look to be painted over bumps instead of the epoxy's plastic ones.

Originally Posted by Tourmeister

Later than evening, I got a call from Pkiser. He too had stopped on the way back at 1791, but he spoke with the guys about what they were doing. It seems they are putting some kind of raised bumps in the stripes and then painting over them, effectively making them invisible. The purpose of the bumps is to create a rumble sound similar to what happens if you wander off the right or left side of the interstates where they have those divots in the pavement. These alert the drivers that they are veering out of their lanes and need to correct. The ones on the freeway aren't really a problem for most bikes. However, the ones embedded in the stripes are close enough to each other and high enough relative to the pavement that they can affect the bikes.

Phil mentioned that he actually experimented with crossing the stripes at various speeds on his way up 1791 and he was NOT happy with the way they affected the handling of the bike! It would be one thing for an experienced rider to hit these without realizing they were there ahead of time, but for an inexperienced rider it could be really bad!! This would be especially true if the rider hits them in a curve. They effectively create an edge trap for the wheels, similar to when you have uneven layers of pavement next to each other.

They are very slippery, especially in the early morning when there is dew or thick fog, the plastic like surface can get moist, which enhances the pucker factor.

Good observation, Watson.

RB

[hardybaker]

Several days a post was started about cagers drossing over the center line. I replied that I had expierenced in LA. that they are grinding the lowered "opposite of bumps" , I think someone called them divits.
It depends on how deep they are and how far apart they are. I thought it was a great idea to gring these into the center line. you get the highs and the low thumps. Which should "wake-up drifters." And I don't cross the double yellow line to pass. Well........ maybe once or twice I might have done it. Hardy

[Jbay]

Originally Posted by bluedogok

I have seen some recently that look to be painted over bumps instead of the epoxy's plastic ones.

profile thermoplastic might look like it like it

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/roadway_d...a07002/ch3.cfm



it could be something else just throwing this out here, it is being used alot

[wanabeguru]

Originally Posted by Hotboot

You should see the new ones on Ark. Hwy. 7....3" deep and 3" apart. Hit those on a bike and you go sideways. Makes it hard to pass on the double yellow now.

Perhaps DOT is putting them down to prevent cycles from passing on dbl yellow???

[Hemibee]

There was bumps/knots painted over on the shoulder of the road at the accident site. I should have gotten a picture of them especially after I tripped over one of them. They did look a little like the raised portion of Jbay's photo but did not have the cut-out sections between them.


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[STJim]

Last month I noticed the "milled out" rumble strips in both Arizona and New Mexico.

In New Mexico
The entire stripe for the center line was milled out and a raised pavement marker (reflector) was set in the cut out section. This resulted in a 10' +- long depression about 4" wide.

In Arizona near Page they were in the process of milling the rumble strips at both the edge lines and the center line. These were a series of transverse cut milled depressions.

Signing in New Mexico especially made me appreciate the high quality advisory signs and pavement markings in Texas.

Jim

[alancb]

Originally Posted by WoodButcher

I'd love to see some pictures from different angles to see what they look like. Just to see how close and how tall they are.

Might help with the cagers going wide in corners, but the downside is it might not be good for us.

Edit: A little google work shows this doc from 2003. With pictures.

http://tti.tamu.edu/documents/0-4472-1.pdf

From the document:
"Motorcycles
Caltrans has performed a motorcycle CSRS evaluation of various CSRS designs. In its study, participants rode over a series of various CSRS at either 55 or 65 mph (89 or 105 km/hour) or another speed they were comfortable with and then asked to rate their comfort and control for each of the CSRS traversed. It has also been reported that Kansas and Massachusetts have tested motorcycles traversing rumble strips. While the composition of the Kansas test group was unknown, the Massachusetts test group was comprised of the police motorcycle squad. Both test groups reported noticing the rumble strips; however, they did not feel out of control."

So what we have here is a bunch of Aggies relying on a bunch of Kalifornians interviewing a bunch of nameless Jayhawkers and Yankees to determine what's best for Texans. C'mon Ags, enough pseudo-science - don't ya'll ride? Throw a few of those puppies down at TWS and do some honest research!

[Tourmeister]

Hardy, I was not passing on a double yellow The bumps appear to be present in ALL stripes, solid or broken. So in the center lines, you may have bumps in the solid line for one lane and in the broken line in the lane that is allowed to pass. If neither lane is allowed to pass, there are two rows of bumps, which could get real ugly. It is also not just a case where someone intentionally crosses a double yellow, but of what happens if they are unintentionally crossing the double yellow, say to avoid something or prevent an accident, and crossing causes them to lose control... I can appreciate the need to get the attention of drivers that may be drifting because of lack of attention, I just am not wild about the potential adverse affects on bikes.

[Janet]

I have found them quite a number of places where there has been a repainting of the road. Seems like a good plan in theory, but they should have had a motorcyclist sitting in on their think tank. They can be pretty scary.

[jsb223]

The left turn off the loop to my house has the milled out "rumble cuts" on the yellow line
(two lane).

I don't like'em.

The should only cut them were there are no crossing lanes..

I don't like the cables on the interstate divider either.

Just goes to show, no riders in the decision process at TXDOT.

[shadow247]

Originally Posted by jsb223

The left turn off the loop to my house has the milled out "rumble cuts" on the yellow line
(two lane).

I don't like'em.

The should only cut them were there are no crossing lanes..

I don't like the cables on the interstate divider either.

Just goes to show, no riders in the decision process at TXDOT.

That's because all bikers are drug dealers, meth heads, and hooligans that don't deserve any respect or consideration.

I haven't seen any stuff like that in my neck of the woods, but we don't have nearly as many motorcycle riders here as there are back in Texas.

[Janet]

I don't mind the cuts at all. The bumps are a major issue though.

[Jbay]

http://www.lrrb.org/pdf/200807TS.pdf