TWT Forums  

 


Go Back   TWT Forums > General Discussion > General

Notices

Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-28-2011, 10:04 AM   #1
SigepKat
 
SigepKat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 121
Electronic insurance cards

I've got an Evo smartphone (big touchscreen) that my email comes to and I'm wondering if having an electronic copy of my ins. card on my phone will suffice should I get pulled over, need inspection, etc. Anybody know, specifically LEOs?
__________________
Chris

2009 Yamaha FJR
2002 Yamaha TW200
2002 Harley Sportster (sold)
1991 Suzuki VX800 (sold)
SigepKat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 10:11 AM   #2
Monkey Wrench Cycles
Forum Supporter
 
Monkey Wrench Cycles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Fort Worth, Tx
Posts: 2,483
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Nope. Even though they can run your tag and KNOW whether you have insurance or not, they will give you a ticket for "failure to carry an insurance card" or something of that nature.

Had a buddy get pulled over while i was with him. He couldnt find a current insurance card, but had a just expired copy with him. The police officer confirmed that he had insurance from running the plate, but gave him a ticket for not having a card.
__________________
www.monkeywrenchmotorcycles.com
www.facebook.com/monkeywrenchcycles

My Toys:
1981 Honda Odyssey w/600cc I-4-on hold
2000 Buell Blast boardtrack racer-on hold
1967 VW Beetle W/busa Engine-On hold
2005 Ninja ZX6-RR -JE Big Bore Pistons, Carrillo Rods, CNC Porting, Flywheel lightened, Crank lightened/knife-edged/balanced, Total Loss Charging System, Dynotune Nitrous System, Sharkskinz Racing Bodywork, Swingarm Ext., Vortex Clip-ons, Bazzaz Tuner, CRG Shorty Levers, Annitori Quick Shifter
Monkey Wrench Cycles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 10:26 AM   #3
SigepKat
 
SigepKat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 121
Re: Electronic insurance cards

But isn't it "failure to provide proof of ins."? Which it seems to me, that's proof...
__________________
Chris

2009 Yamaha FJR
2002 Yamaha TW200
2002 Harley Sportster (sold)
1991 Suzuki VX800 (sold)
SigepKat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 10:32 AM   #4
Monkey Wrench Cycles
Forum Supporter
 
Monkey Wrench Cycles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Fort Worth, Tx
Posts: 2,483
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by SigepKat View Post
But isn't it "failure to provide proof of ins."? Which it seems to me, that's proof...
It used to be that before they could look it up from your tag. Now its "failure to provide a valid insurance card" or "failure to carry a current insurance card" I know it stated on the ticket, about not carrying a current ins. card.

Just a way to write a useless ticket, to get revenue. There is no disputing that ticket if you dont have a card.
__________________
www.monkeywrenchmotorcycles.com
www.facebook.com/monkeywrenchcycles

My Toys:
1981 Honda Odyssey w/600cc I-4-on hold
2000 Buell Blast boardtrack racer-on hold
1967 VW Beetle W/busa Engine-On hold
2005 Ninja ZX6-RR -JE Big Bore Pistons, Carrillo Rods, CNC Porting, Flywheel lightened, Crank lightened/knife-edged/balanced, Total Loss Charging System, Dynotune Nitrous System, Sharkskinz Racing Bodywork, Swingarm Ext., Vortex Clip-ons, Bazzaz Tuner, CRG Shorty Levers, Annitori Quick Shifter
Monkey Wrench Cycles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 10:37 AM   #5
SigepKat
 
SigepKat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 121
Re: Electronic insurance cards

That's annoying. Thanks, guess I ought to print cards...
__________________
Chris

2009 Yamaha FJR
2002 Yamaha TW200
2002 Harley Sportster (sold)
1991 Suzuki VX800 (sold)
SigepKat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 10:38 AM   #6
connick
 
connick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 710
Re: Electronic insurance cards

The first bolded section says you need proof of insurance issued by your liability insurance company; what is required as "proof of insurance" is listed at the bottom of the quote. Note that it does not say anything about a physical copy of the card; as long as you have some electronic proof, from your insurer, that includes all of that information, you should be good.

The second bolded part directly contradicts Monkey Wrench's statement above--they can't ticket you for not having proof of insurance, if they determine through their verification program that you are in fact insured.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...htm#601.051.00

Quote:
Sec. 601.053. EVIDENCE OF FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY. (a) As a condition of operating in this state a motor vehicle to which Section 601.051 applies, the operator of the vehicle on request shall provide to a peace officer, as defined by Article 2.12, Code of Criminal Procedure, or a person involved in an accident with the operator evidence of financial responsibility by exhibiting:

(1) a motor vehicle liability insurance policy covering the vehicle that satisfies Subchapter D or a photocopy of the policy;

(2) a standard proof of motor vehicle liability insurance form prescribed by the Texas Department of Insurance under Section 601.081 and issued by a liability insurer for the motor vehicle;

(3) an insurance binder that confirms the operator is in compliance with this chapter;

(4) a surety bond certificate issued under Section 601.121;

(5) a certificate of a deposit with the comptroller covering the vehicle issued under Section 601.122;

(6) a copy of a certificate of a deposit with the appropriate county judge covering the vehicle issued under Section 601.123; or

(7) a certificate of self-insurance covering the vehicle issued under Section 601.124 or a photocopy of the certificate.

(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an operator who does not exhibit evidence of financial responsibility under Subsection (a) is presumed to have operated the vehicle in violation of Section 601.051.

(c) Subsection (b) does not apply if the peace officer determines through use of the verification program established under Subchapter N that financial responsibility has been established for the vehicle.

---------------

Sec. 601.081. STANDARD PROOF OF MOTOR VEHICLE LIABILITY INSURANCE FORM. A standard proof of motor vehicle liability insurance form prescribed by the Texas Department of Insurance must include:

(1) the name of the insurer;

(2) the insurance policy number;

(3) the policy period;

(4) the name and address of each insured;

(5) the policy limits or a statement that the coverage of the policy complies with the minimum amounts of motor vehicle liability insurance required by this chapter; and

(6) the make and model of each covered vehicle.
__________________
Kegan
'06 FZ1N - '04 EX250 - '04 625SMC - '00 YZFR6
IBA #41999
Fort Worth Motorcycle Riders
connick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 10:40 AM   #7
Janet
Forum Supporter
 
Janet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Midlothian, TX
Posts: 3,445
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Wrench Cycles View Post
It used to be that before they could look it up from your tag.
That system is not without major flaws. Probably half the license plates that get run have the "verify manually" message show up. There are quite a number of vehicle types that are not in the data base yet.
My morotcycle had the verify manually message until just a few months ago.
__________________

.......Janet
2008 FJR
Ride With Pride!
Blue Knights TX XXI
IBA 18308


"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine


Janet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 10:43 AM   #8
10-95
 
10-95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bryan, TX
Posts: 2,024
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Wrench Cycles View Post
It used to be that before they could look it up from your tag. Now its "failure to provide a valid insurance card" or "failure to carry a current insurance card" I know it stated on the ticket, about not carrying a current ins. card.

Just a way to write a useless ticket, to get revenue. There is no disputing that ticket if you dont have a card.

That is not correct.

It is true Texas has a statewide database for insurance. It is NOT true that the database is always correct or that it is always up to date. This is why we cannot use the info contained in it for reason to stop and you can't use it for PC for an arrest. It's also why not all accept that info as proof that you are insured.

You are still required by state law to carry and present insurance upon demand by a peace officer or judge. If you don't you can be issued a citation for no insurance. The cite would be dismissed upon providing the court with proof of insurance. The court has the option of charging a dismissal fee, which is set by the state.

To the OP, I would not accept what you showed me on your phone.
__________________
Cursed be the ground for our sake. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for us. For out of the ground we were taken, for the dust we are... and to the dust we shall return...



2006 DL1000
Size 14 REEBOKS
10-95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 10:56 AM   #9
SigepKat
 
SigepKat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 121
Re: Electronic insurance cards

10-95 - why would you not accept it? Its the same thing I would print out... Just curious.
__________________
Chris

2009 Yamaha FJR
2002 Yamaha TW200
2002 Harley Sportster (sold)
1991 Suzuki VX800 (sold)
SigepKat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 12:16 PM   #10
drfood
 
drfood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,877
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by SigepKat View Post
10-95 - why would you not accept it? Its the same thing I would print out... Just curious.
I have to agree 100% based on the way the code is written. It states proof, not the form of the proof. The insurers I am currently with have notified me effective January 1, 2012 they will no longer send any hard copy of any paperwork. All policies, proof of insurance and billing will be 100% electronic. And they will not allow printing of proof of insurance due to the large number of forged and manipulated cards. In fact right now on my Android phone I have all of my insurance info electronically stored including homeowners information.
__________________
Houston, TX
2005 V-Strom 1000
AMA Member
drfood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 12:25 PM   #11
gixxerjasen
 
gixxerjasen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seagoville, TX
Posts: 8,460
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-95 View Post
That is not correct.

It is true Texas has a statewide database for insurance. It is NOT true that the database is always correct or that it is always up to date. This is why we cannot use the info contained in it for reason to stop and you can't use it for PC for an arrest. It's also why not all accept that info as proof that you are insured.
Sounds like a fantastically useless use of taxpayer dollars. What's the point of having such a big fancy db if we aren't going to trust it and actually use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drfood View Post
I have to agree 100% based on the way the code is written. It states proof, not the form of the proof. The insurers I am currently with have notified me effective January 1, 2012 they will no longer send any hard copy of any paperwork. All policies, proof of insurance and billing will be 100% electronic. And they will not allow printing of proof of insurance due to the large number of forged and manipulated cards. In fact right now on my Android phone I have all of my insurance info electronically stored including homeowners information.
So what do you do if you have just a plain old cell phone? How do you get your proof to carry with you?
__________________
My Blog
Current Bikes:2007 Yamaha FJR1300AE | 1998 KTM 250 EXC | 1992 Suzuki Bandit 400
Past Bikes: 1997 Katana 600-wrecked | 2000 CBR600F4-Stolen | 2001 GSX-R600-Stolen | 1989 Honda CB1-Sold | 2001 Suzuki TL1000R-Traded | 1992 Suzuki Bandit 400-Sold | 2004 Suzuki GSX-R600-Sold | 2007 DR-Z400SM-Traded | 2003 Yamaha FZ1-Wrecked | 2003 Yamaha FZ1 II-Sold
gixxerjasen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 12:57 PM   #12
Annhl8rX
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Aubrey, TX
Posts: 549
I would accept (and have accepted) proof of insurance from a phone or computer...but I know others who won't.
Annhl8rX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 01:22 PM   #13
Buffalo
 
Buffalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Terrell, Tx
Posts: 2,456
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by drfood View Post
The insurers I am currently with have notified me effective January 1, 2012 they will no longer send any hard copy of any paperwork. All policies, proof of insurance and billing will be 100% electronic. And they will not allow printing of proof of insurance due to the large number of forged and manipulated cards.
If my insurance company told me that I would just say "See Ya" and go find another insurance company.

When I went to get my new tags for my truck last month I took my insurance card in but the lady at the desk said they didn't need to see it anymore because they could get the information on the computer. If they accept the information on the database as proof of insurance for getting tags it seems it should also work for a traffic stop. I'll still carry my card with me though just in case the person that stops me does not have computer access.

Here is another question for you. If someone crashes into you will you accept the info on their phone as proof that they have insurance?
__________________
Craig

07 Burgman 650 Exec
06 Burgman 400S
Buffalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 01:45 PM   #14
gixxerjasen
 
gixxerjasen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seagoville, TX
Posts: 8,460
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Hey wait, we are all here in Texas...most of us. You have to show proof of insurance to get your vehicle inspected. What are you supposed to do at one of these mom and pop garages? I'm sure they don't have access to the statewide insurance database.
__________________
My Blog
Current Bikes:2007 Yamaha FJR1300AE | 1998 KTM 250 EXC | 1992 Suzuki Bandit 400
Past Bikes: 1997 Katana 600-wrecked | 2000 CBR600F4-Stolen | 2001 GSX-R600-Stolen | 1989 Honda CB1-Sold | 2001 Suzuki TL1000R-Traded | 1992 Suzuki Bandit 400-Sold | 2004 Suzuki GSX-R600-Sold | 2007 DR-Z400SM-Traded | 2003 Yamaha FZ1-Wrecked | 2003 Yamaha FZ1 II-Sold
gixxerjasen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 01:46 PM   #15
Monkey Wrench Cycles
Forum Supporter
 
Monkey Wrench Cycles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Fort Worth, Tx
Posts: 2,483
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-95 View Post
You are still required by state law to carry and present insurance upon demand by a peace officer or judge. If you don't you can be issued a citation for no insurance. The cite would be dismissed upon providing the court with proof of insurance. The court has the option of charging a dismissal fee, which is set by the state.
I specifically remember the ticket as being failure to keep an insurance card. It wasnt a no insurance ticket, that could be dismissed. This was in Euless though, a city known to the good people who inhabit it as Useless...
__________________
www.monkeywrenchmotorcycles.com
www.facebook.com/monkeywrenchcycles

My Toys:
1981 Honda Odyssey w/600cc I-4-on hold
2000 Buell Blast boardtrack racer-on hold
1967 VW Beetle W/busa Engine-On hold
2005 Ninja ZX6-RR -JE Big Bore Pistons, Carrillo Rods, CNC Porting, Flywheel lightened, Crank lightened/knife-edged/balanced, Total Loss Charging System, Dynotune Nitrous System, Sharkskinz Racing Bodywork, Swingarm Ext., Vortex Clip-ons, Bazzaz Tuner, CRG Shorty Levers, Annitori Quick Shifter

Last edited by Monkey Wrench Cycles; 01-28-2011 at 01:48 PM.
Monkey Wrench Cycles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 02:17 PM   #16
drfood
 
drfood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,877
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo View Post
If my insurance company told me that I would just say "See Ya" and go find another insurance company.

When I went to get my new tags for my truck last month I took my insurance card in but the lady at the desk said they didn't need to see it anymore because they could get the information on the computer. If they accept the information on the database as proof of insurance for getting tags it seems it should also work for a traffic stop. I'll still carry my card with me though just in case the person that stops me does not have computer access.

Here is another question for you. If someone crashes into you will you accept the info on their phone as proof that they have insurance?
Yes. I have no problem taking an e insurance card as long as the cops are there to validate their insurance through the database.

Same reason TSA has to accept that you really do have a boarding pass for the plane you claim to have. Same reason my credit union now has my visa card on my phone and I can have certain grocery stores scan the funky square bar code as my credit card (it's a test program I volunteered for and am getting $100 to participate in)

Electronic documents can be 100% valid proofs of who you are these days. If I am not mistaken there are a couple of states evaluating using electronic FOBs as drivers licenses.
__________________
Houston, TX
2005 V-Strom 1000
AMA Member
drfood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 02:41 PM   #17
Buffalo
 
Buffalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Terrell, Tx
Posts: 2,456
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by drfood View Post
Yes. I have no problem taking an e insurance card as long as the cops are there to validate their insurance through the database.
So your not really accepting the e insurance card, you are accepting the LEOs validation of it.

What do you do if law enforcement doesn't come out to investigate. On minor accidents where no one is injured and traffic is not being blocked, they will sometimes not come out anymore. They just tell you to swap DL and insurance info.
__________________
Craig

07 Burgman 650 Exec
06 Burgman 400S
Buffalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 02:46 PM   #18
connick
 
connick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 710
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo View Post
So your not really accepting the e insurance card, you are accepting the LEOs validation of it.

What do you do if law enforcement doesn't come out to investigate. On minor accidents where no one is injured and traffic is not being blocked, they will sometimes not come out anymore. They just tell you to swap DL and insurance info.
Most insurance companies have 1-800 numbers to call to verify insurance coverage. Get the other party's name and policy number, and immediately call and check that their coverage is valid. This is a good idea even if they give you a physical copy of their insurance card... who's to say they didn't cancel the policy a week after recieving it?

I fail to see why an electronic copy of a card displayed on someone's phone is any less trustworthy then a paper copy. I'd almost be *more* likely to trust an electronic copy.

10-95, I'd be interested in hearing your interpretation of the code I cited earlier, and what in there justifies ignoring someone's proof of insurance, just because it's not in a form that you're used to seeing?
__________________
Kegan
'06 FZ1N - '04 EX250 - '04 625SMC - '00 YZFR6
IBA #41999
Fort Worth Motorcycle Riders
connick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 03:03 PM   #19
sharkey
The Incredible Hulk
 
sharkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 8,958
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxerjasen View Post
Sounds like a fantastically useless use of taxpayer dollars. What's the point of having such a big fancy db if we aren't going to trust it and actually use it?

So what do you do if you have just a plain old cell phone? How do you get your proof to carry with you?

I use to have to order certified copies of convictions all the time for our cases. Apparently the courts don't trust the validity of the FBI's NCIC or DPS' TCIC database. It's real fun calling CA asking not just for a copy but a certified copy. I BLAME Defense Lawyers

I can't imagine any company stating that once you've paid them, they will not send out proof. Progressive sent my proof vie email but I then just printed it out.

The insurance database has it faults I imagine because no good folks pay for a month and then discontinue it and whoever runs the database is relying on various insurance companies for verification either way. I'm not sure I would rely on it either but that wasn't around when I wrote tickets.

Many times I would cut a ticket for FMFR -fail to maintain financial responsibility knowing it would get tossed in court when proof was shown at that time. I let them go on the moving violation to avoid a spike in their rates and they were usually thankful. Usually being the key word
__________________
Faith in yourself is limiting, faith in God is limitless. Live life limitless.
sharkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 03:10 PM   #20
Monkey Wrench Cycles
Forum Supporter
 
Monkey Wrench Cycles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Fort Worth, Tx
Posts: 2,483
Re: Electronic insurance cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
I use to have to order certified copies of convictions all the time for our cases. Apparently the courts don't trust the validity of the FBI's NCIC or DPS' TCIC database. It's real fun calling CA asking not just for a copy but a certified copy. I BLAME Defense Lawyers

I can't imagine any company stating that once you've paid them, they will not send out proof. Progressive sent my proof vie email but I then just printed it out.

The insurance database has it faults I imagine because no good folks pay for a month and then discontinue it and whoever runs the database is relying on various insurance companies for verification either way. I'm not sure I would rely on it either but that wasn't around when I wrote tickets.

Many times I would cut a ticket for FMFR -fail to maintain financial responsibility knowing it would get tossed in court when proof was shown at that time. I let them go on the moving violation to avoid a spike in their rates and they were usually thankful. Usually being the key word
Thought that was the whole point of having the database. Its supposed to stop people from cancelling there insurance and presenting a valid, yet cancelled, card. So if thats the case, and they check your card anyway, what has the system accomplished but to waste time and money?? Couldn't the same person who did that before the database, still do it since the database is not accurate?
__________________
www.monkeywrenchmotorcycles.com
www.facebook.com/monkeywrenchcycles

My Toys:
1981 Honda Odyssey w/600cc I-4-on hold
2000 Buell Blast boardtrack racer-on hold
1967 VW Beetle W/busa Engine-On hold
2005 Ninja ZX6-RR -JE Big Bore Pistons, Carrillo Rods, CNC Porting, Flywheel lightened, Crank lightened/knife-edged/balanced, Total Loss Charging System, Dynotune Nitrous System, Sharkskinz Racing Bodywork, Swingarm Ext., Vortex Clip-ons, Bazzaz Tuner, CRG Shorty Levers, Annitori Quick Shifter
Monkey Wrench Cycles is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Go Back   TWT Forums > General Discussion > General

Notices


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All Rights Reserved, Scott Friday 2003-12.
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=
Page generated in 0.30630 seconds with 9 queries