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Old 03-09-2012, 12:31 PM   #241
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

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Depends on the relative speeds of the two moving, deformable objects.
True, but assuming same rate of closure (into a Suburban doing 30 at 30mph or into a bridge abutment at 60), you will want to choose the movable, deformable object over the solid hard mass.

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Wouldn't the easiest strategy be to just ride your bikes that you already own more?

On a bad day my worst mileage bike gets in the high thirties. On a good day my best mileage bike gets in the mid 60's.

For most people in this country I still think it comes down to the fact that bikes are strictly pleasure vehicles and are not considered transportation like they are in most of the rest of the world. Earlier this week I saw lots of bikes on the road on my daily commute. Yesterday and today the only bike I saw on the road was mine. It looks like on cool and rainy days people still have no problem justifying getting 15 mpg in their trucks and SUVS vs 40 or 50 on their bikes. YMMV
Yes, if you have a bike in the first place. Most people don't, and we have two generations of people now (ever since cheap Asian cars killed off the bike as transportation concept for many in the mid 80s) that don't view bikes as more than toys or used by the extreme experience set as their default. No kidding - perhaps one of our more recent and younger riders not from a riding family can comment on that phenomenon.

As for me, I'm on a bike any time the weather isn't too awful (i.e., not horrible for cars driven by idiots, so they don't crash into me) and prefer it over any other form of ground transport. As I told my recently-deceased mom, when I'm out of the house and moving around you'll more often find me on a bike than anywhere else.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:34 PM   #242
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

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. Earlier this week I saw lots of bikes on the road on my daily commute. Yesterday and today the only bike I saw on the road was mine. It looks like on cool and rainy days people still have no problem justifying getting 15 mpg in their trucks and SUVS vs 40 or 50 on their bikes. YMMV
True, but even just commuting on the "good" days will save you some gas. Especially here in TX where the riding season is basically year 'round. My buddy in Fargo puts his Street Triple away in October, and it doesn't come out until April!
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True, but assuming same rate of closure (into a Suburban doing 30 at 30mph or into a bridge abutment at 60), you will want to choose the movable, deformable object over the solid hard mass.
Conceded.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:37 PM   #243
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

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Some good points there. I'm not against small SUVs in the city; they can be very efficient. I'm not against large SUVS - or pickups - if you actually need them. It's about finding the right vehicle that'll do what you need it to do when you need it, without crippling you the rest of the time. If somebody needs a big SUV to haul a 5,000 lb trailer, they need it. If their second car is also a big SUV, they probably don't need that one.

It would be equally impractical and foolish for somebody with small children (think car seats) to buy two tiny, two-door cars with minimal back seats- fuel efficient as they may be.

There are a lot of purpose-built vehicles out there. We Americans all need to get better at defining the purpose better before making the purchase. Now, true confession time. It probably wasn't that bright of me - back in 1978 - to buy that brand new Celica just as we were starting a family.
Tim: good points on buy the vehicle that works for you. Someone commented on a 60 mile total commute[matches my numbers exactly] with a rather priceless comment [If you are driving 30 miles one way to work, then you have 2 options, move closer, or buy a fuel efficient car.] Lets set the record straight: Selling our home and moving is not a financial option. Nor is buying a small economy car that would create further damage to my wife's spine [due to poor seat support] as she has permanent ongoing spinal damage. Thanks for the compassion! BTW, we hang our laundry as weather permits to save on utilities[gas, electric].What a concept!
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:43 PM   #244
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

I recently picked up a bike and got my license.

Once I graduate and (hopefully) find a job, I plan to use the bike as a commuter tool. Besides the fun factor, we all know how efficient and cheap to run and insure they can be in comparison to a car. Once I'm on my own, I won't have support from my parents to fund gas or repair bills on my daily driver and only (running) vehicle.

I'd like to be able to keep my car, but filling it with 93 Octane and running full synthetic oil adds up really quickly. Hence, why I'm hoping to have my bike done and insured by summer.

My parents, of course, are not supporters of my two wheeled lust, despite that my dad used to ride trials (Bultaco 250 with upgraded carb, IIRC) and shared a Honda CB350 with his brother.

Bikes are seen as entertainment items by my parents and most people my age, which is unfortunate, as I've found that MSF courses teach a lot of good techniques and increase awareness. Most of which can be applied to driving as well.

Last edited by Led Duck; 03-09-2012 at 12:54 PM. Reason: Misspelt Octane :P
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:50 PM   #245
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

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Tim: good points on buy the vehicle that works for you. Someone commented on a 60 mile total commute[matches my numbers exactly] with a rather priceless comment [If you are driving 30 miles one way to work, then you have 2 options, move closer, or buy a fuel efficient car.] Lets set the record straight: Selling our home and moving is not a financial option. Nor is buying a small economy car that would create further damage to my wife's spine [due to poor seat support] as she has permanent ongoing spinal damage. Thanks for the compassion! BTW, we hang our laundry as weather permits to save on utilities[gas, electric].What a concept!
Don't worry. I had someone tell me the same thing. I commented months ago, after buying our first house (I'm STILL excited!) about the commute sucked. Someone else was all "Well, nobody FORCED you live so far away from work". ***? I guess my desire to raise my children in a house I can afford, in a neighborhood that doesn't set off old Army "head on a swivel" instincts, is somehow a vice. Not everybody thinks everything all the way through. They just spit out the first thing that falls into their mouth.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:51 PM   #246
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

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I recently picked up a bike and got my license.

Once I graduate and (hopefully) find a job, I plan to use the bike as a commuter tool. Besides the fun factor, we all know how efficient and cheap to run and insure they can be in comparison to a car. Once I'm on my own, I won't have support from my parents to fund gas or repair bills on my daily driver and only (running) vehicle.

I'd like to be able to keep my car, but filling it with 93 Octan and running full synthetic oil adds up really quickly. Hence, why I'm hoping to have my bike done and insured by summer.

My parents, of course, are not supporters of my two wheeled lust, despite that my dad used to ride trials (Bultaco 250 with upgraded carb, IIRC) and shared a Honda CB350 with his brother.

Bikes are seen as entertainment items by my parents and most people my age, which is unfortunate, as I've found that MSF courses teach a lot of good techniques and increase awareness. Most of which can be applied to driving as well.

BIKE BIKE BIKE BIKE! What is it? Bike!!!!
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:52 PM   #247
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

Wally, I totally respect your wife's spine. That's why I would never throw paint on your car. Well, I wouldn't anyway, but you know what I mean. I picked the commute distance because that's what I drove for 30+ years. That's the distance from south Arlington to downtown Dallas, to the Regal Row area, and to Los Colinas - my three primary commutes. It's a common commute distance in the Metromess and, for many people, their outside acceptable limit.

You're right - moving is a poor option, especially given that, in an era when people have to change jobs too frequently, they may have to work in many different areas. It's not financially feasible to sell your house and move closer if you have to change jobs or locations every five years. But in DFW, it's also not feasible for most professionals to say they'll only work in Arlington, or McKinney, or Plano.

So, we drive. That's why my philosophy has always been -- buy a comfortable but efficient commuter car and run it into the ground. And buy a vacation vehicle, but don't put unnecessary miles on it. Worked for me for 35 years. Your results may vary.....
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:53 PM   #248
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

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BIKE BIKE BIKE BIKE! What is it? Bike!!!!
He's the friend I picked up that GS850G for. He tried an EX500 project first but it didn't work out for reasons beyond anyone's control.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:55 PM   #249
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

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He's the friend I picked up that GS850G for. He tried an EX500 project first but it didn't work out for reasons beyond anyone's control.
Murphy had a say in it :P
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:59 PM   #250
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

Hmmm.... GS850... good bike. I almost bought one with a full Vetter system on it a few years ago, then I was all "Why am I buying this? I don't even LIKE fairings!", then I bought a Concours later, so... yeah. Anyway, good bike. Classic styling.
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:15 PM   #251
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

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Wally, I totally respect your wife's spine. That's why I would never throw paint on your car. Well, I wouldn't anyway, but you know what I mean. I picked the commute distance because that's what I drove for 30+ years. That's the distance from south Arlington to downtown Dallas, to the Regal Row area, and to Los Colinas - my three primary commutes. It's a common commute distance in the Metromess and, for many people, their outside acceptable limit.

You're right - moving is a poor option, especially given that, in an era when people have to change jobs too frequently, they may have to work in many different areas. It's not financially feasible to sell your house and move closer if you have to change jobs or locations every five years. But in DFW, it's also not feasible for most professionals to say they'll only work in Arlington, or McKinney, or Plano.

So, we drive. That's why my philosophy has always been -- buy a comfortable but efficient commuter car and run it into the ground. And buy a vacation vehicle, but don't put unnecessary miles on it. Worked for me for 35 years. Your results may vary.....
Tim: i was not refering about you in my rant[it was a quote from another poster]. Please forgive. And YoDoc,
i also appreciate your understanding along with Tim!
Now please send some great riding weather my way!
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:19 PM   #252
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

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I wonder if there are going to be more low cc bikes to combat high prices so I visited the local Suz-Kawa dealer yesterday. Nope. The only small street legal bike was a KLX250 (I want it) and a DR650 and KLR650 (want them too). The rest were monster bikes like the Vulcan 1700cc. Seems these guys would have a TU250 or two but they didn't. It tells me that America still does not want these little tools. The showroom was empty of customers but it was raining.
When I was looking to buy my TU250, I had to educate the sales staff that it even existed. Most of the dealerships around here focus on the bigger bikes for the image-conscious, I guess. Of course, when I'm being more charitable I understand that big cruisers basically sell themselves and bring in a bigger profit margin...
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:21 PM   #253
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

I'm not even sure who said what, but I am pretty sure that I don't get mad at people for not knowing a situation, or for offering general advice. What irks me is:

Me: "Man, this situation sucks."
Other Guy: "Did you try A,B,C, and D?"
Me: "I tried A and B, and C and D aren't options for reasons E and F."
Other Guy :"Well, you COULD do C or D, you just don't want to."

*transitioning into fantasy realm here*
Me: "Oh, my bad. I guess I just didn't grasp that ANYTHING is an option when you aren't the one making the decisions or paying for the consequences. Now come here so I can choke the life out of your face."
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:24 PM   #254
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

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When I was looking to buy my TU250, I had to educate the sales staff that it even existed. Most of the dealerships around here focus on the bigger bikes for the image-conscious, I guess. Of course, when I'm being more charitable I understand that big cruisers basically sell themselves and bring in a bigger profit margin...
Also, not many people can road trip a TU250. My 250 lb butt, with luggage, and a head wind... I'd probably never get out of 2nd gear...

Or freeway riding. Trying to coax a 250cc cruiser up to freeway speeds with me on it is a daunting prospect, and one that I am not eager to explore. A 250cc sport bike is a whole other beast, but I won't ride one for the same reasons I won't ride any sport bike.
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:32 PM   #255
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

I'm gonna road trip the **** out of my 250... As much as my time schedule allows, anyway! (refer to "Minimalist Touring Thread" on ADV... ) It's really all about one's point of reference. I'm coming off of a 150cc scooter and used to commute in a 71 VW Beetle that would barely do 60mph.

I don't find the TU250 to be too bad on the freeway. It starts running out of breath at around the same point that the wind starts making things uncomfortable. I'm 6'2", 180lbs so YMMV...
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:33 PM   #256
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

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Also, not many people can road trip a TU250. My 250 lb butt, with luggage, and a head wind... I'd probably never get out of 2nd gear...

Or freeway riding. Trying to coax a 250cc cruiser up to freeway speeds with me on it is a daunting prospect, and one that I am not eager to explore. A 250cc sport bike is a whole other beast, but I won't ride one for the same reasons I won't ride any sport bike.
I used to run a XR250 on the highway for a 20 mile commute at 70mph, and I was running 230-240lbs at the time. I don't know if I would do a trip over an hour at 70mph, but the idea that they won't get out of 2nd is just crazy.(I know you're exaggerating, but there really are a lot of people that don't think a 250 can pull 55mph) Lack of experience with them is a big part of the problem, in my opinion.
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:38 PM   #257
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

Oh, I don't doubt that it CAN be done, just not by me. I literally wouldn't ride it. I like long distance, too, so that makes another no-no. Unless you like the "minimalist touring" thing. I mean, I did most of the BRP on a Sportster, camping every night, but a Sporty is a Goldwing compared to some of the stuff those guys ride! Lol.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:06 PM   #258
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

I should have been more clear about the SUV vs mini vans. I was talking about the larger, original SUVs like the Suburbans, Expeditions and high passenger SUVs. The new one are "crossovers" and look to me like a cross between a 60s Ford SW and a early 80s hatchback. Those I expect good mileage from but not room to carry 6 in comfort with gear.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:08 PM   #259
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

Truth. 2007 RAV4 we had before the new kiddo came along: 4banger, front wheel drive. 5 seats, but one would be VERY cramped. Not too much "S" in that SUV...
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:27 PM   #260
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Re: $5.00 per gallon gas strategy

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I should have been more clear about the SUV vs mini vans. I was talking about the larger, original SUVs like the Suburbans, Expeditions and high passenger SUVs. The new one are "crossovers" and look to me like a cross between a 60s Ford SW and a early 80s hatchback. Those I expect good mileage from but not room to carry 6 in comfort with gear.

The only original one on that list is the Suburban, all the other original SUVs of that size are dead now and have been for some time - the Travelall, Wagoneer, Bronco, etc., etc. :P
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