Which and Why - The Nikon delima...

[Keith]

Little background first...

In the late 70's and early 80's I made my living pressing the shutter button on a wide variety of equipment. As a studio and wedding gunner I spent a great deal of time behind the lens looking for a smile or the perfect pose. I've photographed over 300 weddings and more "senior portraits" than I'd care to count, but I also did a lot of drag race photography. The "in studio" work was done with Mamiya 120's, the weddings were shot with a Bronica ETRS 645 setup, and the action/sports work was always on Nikons. But I left the "scene" in the mid 80's and never looked back - until now...

Now I find myself fascinated by the new digital Nikons and very much interested in getting back into the game. I have ZERO interest in ever shooting another wedding, but intrigued with the idea of combining my love for action sports with portrait style work. I'm also interested in software that allows me to let the creative side out.

So - the question is where to re-enter the game at. I'm not ready to invest $3 grand on the newest pro setup from Nikon, but I don't want a fancy "point and shoot" either. I have a Nikon Coolpix 8700 that I bought 5 or so years ago that I absolutely HATE (camera is way too small for my hands). So I'm looking for bigger rather than smaller.

To date I'm considering both the Nikon D3200 and the D5100 - and I'm leaning heavily toward the later.

What's the boards take on these two for an old pro who's looking to get back into the game...

UPDATE: If your "late to the game" please see post 25 on page 2 of this thread. Feel free to comment afterwards - the thread is morphing constantly! Thanks!

[M38A1]

StartHERE. And I'm not kidding.

I would first look at my requirements, build a list and go from there. I'd ask what kind of final product do I want (image size), what kind of speed performance (ISO) capabilities I want, and let that drive my decision. And I would determine frames/second if sporting events are on the list. I would purchase more capacity than I think I would need at the present or immediate future.

When you buy into the DSLR's, you're buying into an entire system, not just who's body or glass. When the requirements are listed, go compare not just the Nikon offerings, but others as well. You may want a Nikon, but a Canon or other system fits your hands better. Remember, you have to carry this thing around.....

Also see which system fits your mindset better regarding HOW they operate. One system might have button placement which is more intuitive than another. Or the menu systems might be more in line with how you think than another system.

And upgrading glass would be a consideration. What system has the selection of glass which fits where you want to be?

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[Keith]

I read the "Dear George" letter last night and I agree 100% with what it says, but I can't budget - or justify - the Nikon I "want" with what I actually need. In the past my driving argument/consideration was always "How long will it take me to pay for the purchase from the work I am creating?" In the case of the Bronica ETRS system the ROI was less than 3 months. Unfortunately, I don't have any current prospects or avenues for "selling" my work, so that line of reasoning is out the window. However, I'd prefer to spend more at the start than regret the purchase later on - but only within reason. I'm afraid that lets the Nikon D800 out. And to be honest, I'm of the era that always felt it's the photographer - not the equipment - that makes the photo. While it's nice to have ALL the bells and whistles, sometimes it's the base equipment that takes the best shot.

For instance, when I did drag race photography at Green Valley Raceway I knew the proper lens for starting line work was a 50mm. But try to get a racer to give you the go ahead when you're carrying that. So I found that I could dramatically increase sales by carrying the Nikon WITH the motor drive and WITH a 200/300 mm zoom lens attached. Of course I chunked it all when I got to the starting line...

I've looked at the two Nikon's I have listed and both will deliver what I feel would be the largest image size I'm looking for (16x20). However the D3200 has a higher resolution (24.1 MP vs 16.1 MP), so technically it could go larger than the D5100. However, as I've read elsewhere - size ain't everything when it comes to MP. Everything else is pretty much the same on the two cameras. Oddly though, it depends on which web "comparision" page you go to as to which is the winner. I found two sites that give the D5100 the nod, and another that says the D3200 is the winner... Both have 4fps rates, 11-point AF, and ISO from 100 to 6400. Shutter speeds are the same as well at 1/4000 to 30s & Blub. Heck, I'm not even sure why Nikon created two vastly similar cameras...

It does appear from comments posted on "other forums" that the D5100 is a crowd favorite.

BTW - I did take a look at the Canons next to the Nikons at Best Buy yesterday. Perhaps I'm biased from my experiences early on, but the Nikons just seemed to fit my hand better. I suppose it's all subjective...

[klb1122]

Could a D7000 be in the running, even a used one? It has a built-in focusing motor, so you could pick up some of the older Nikon lens to work with it, like the 50mm f/1.8D for $120. It's a bit bigger than the two you listed, and it has more controls without having to dig through the menus. The D7000 would have better odds of keeping you happy longer than the others.

This is just my opinion of course.

Are you planning on investing in some glass right off the bat or sticking with a kit lens?

Although, pick up a used D700 and you'll be happy for a long time.

[Trail Boss]

A local Austin photo professional named Kirk Tuck wrote a couple of blogs recently about the 3200. He owns a lot of different cameras and changes cameras often so he has a broader perspective than most photographers.

Here are the links to his posts about the 3200.

A First Look at the Nikon D3200

The latest chapter in my ongoing Nikon D3200 review

[DFW_Warrior]

I went with the 5100 due to the fact that is contains basically the same sensor as the D7000, but with a little less functionality that I personally won't really miss. The 5100 also has a built in time lapse timer and the 3200 does not. For me that was money that I would have had to spend on the 3200.

Now if you are wanting to shoot sports or action with either and be in full manual then I would honestly skip both and go to the D7000 since you gain dual scroll wheels for ease of adjustment. Shooting in P, A, or S really no big deal at all. Also if you want to ever get a battery grip the 5100 or 3200 is sorely lacking in functionality when you plug one of those guys in. Not sure if that is better on the 7000 or not.

I just had this debate in my head for the past month or two, so welcome to the club.

[tricepilot]

I guess nobody wants me to bring up Skip Hunt and his $400 Olympus

[Keith]

Originally Posted by klb1122

Could a D7000 be in the running, even a used one? It has a built-in focusing motor, so you could pick up some of the older Nikon lens to work with it, like the 50mm f/1.8D for $120. It's a bit bigger than the two you listed, and it has more controls without having to dig through the menus. The D7000 would have better odds of keeping you happy longer than the others.

This is just my opinion of course.

Are you planning on investing in some glass right off the bat or sticking with a kit lens?

Although, pick up a used D700 and you'll be happy for a long time.

Just checked the specs on the D7000 and liked what I saw. This may well be an alternate path...

[DFW_Warrior]

Originally Posted by tricepilot

I guess nobody wants me to bring up Skip Hunt and his $400 Olympus

I had a $400 Olympus and while it was awesome at outdoor photography, once indoors in semi poor lighting it showed its weaknesses quickly. Anything above ISO800 was grainy to the point where I wouldn't call it usable.

Meanwhile, with the little bit of low light testing on my Nikon I couldn't be happier. The amount of noise at ISO6400 on the Nikon is less than my Olympus when set to ISO800. Again, for photos where things aren't moving, not a big deal. But for indoor or lower light action, it will suffer.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by klb1122

Could a D7000 be in the running, even a used one?

Cripes Kory, now you done gone and moved the cheese...

After several hours of online review I've determined the D3200 isn't going to make me happy in the long run. So that would have given the D5100 the "go ahead", but then Kory readjusted the bar with his suggestion of a used D7000. I think the 6fps speed rating and the faster lag time of the D7000 may push it to the top of the "I want" and "I can afford" list. It's a bit more expensive, but the lenses are less costly (motor is in the body instead of the glass). I'd have to look, but there's even a remote possibility that my existing glass would work (although doubtful). I do see action photography in my "view", so the higher speed rating is definately a big plus.

The two concessions I'd make in selecting the D7000 over the D5100 would be the loss of the built in HDR on the 5100 and it's swivel LCD screen. Both would be nice "features", but I have a feeling the D7000's controls are going to be more "old school" and give me the same feel as my older film Nikons.

Comments?

[klb1122]

Originally Posted by Keith

Cripes Kory, now you done gone and moved the cheese...

After several hours of online review I've determined the D3200 isn't going to make me happy in the long run. So that would have given the D5100 the "go ahead", but then Kory readjusted the bar with his suggestion of a used D7000. I think the 6fps speed rating and the faster lag time of the D7000 may push it to the top of the "I want" and "I can afford" list. It's a bit more expensive, but the lenses are less costly (motor is in the body instead of the glass). I'd have to look, but there's even a remote possibility that my existing glass would work (although doubtful). I do see action photography in my "view", so the higher speed rating is definately a big plus.

The two concessions I'd make in selecting the D7000 over the D5100 would be the loss of the built in HDR on the 5100 and it's swivel LCD screen. Both would be nice "features", but I have a feeling the D7000's controls are going to be more "old school" and give me the same feel as my older film Nikons.

Comments?

It's fun spending other people's money.

[M38A1]

Re: HDR, do your own manual under/even/overexposures and use an external third party software. Much more capability going that route than what is contained within the camera. In fact, check the specs to see how many frames under/over can be done and in what increments. On my older D90 I can dial in one under/one over and one even at either 1/2 or 1/3 stops, set it on burst mode and fire off three shots in less than a second. Heck, it might even shoot two shots either side of even....

.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by M38A1

Re: HDR, do your own manual under/even/overexposures and use an external third party software. Much more capability going that route than what is contained within the camera. In fact, check the specs to see how many frames under/over can be done and in what increments. On my older D90 I can dial in one under/one over and one even at either 1/2 or 1/3 stops, set it on burst mode and fire off three shots in less than a second. Heck, it might even shoot two shots either side of even....

.

Found this in a review of the D7000...

The Auto Bracketing feature on the Nikon D7000 can capture either two or three sequential shots of the same subject with varying exposure values. Exposure settings for bracketing can vary from -2 to +2 EV, with step sizes of 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, 1, or 2 EV units, and are additive to the current exposure compensation value. That is to say, if you have the camera set with +5 EV exposure compensation, and you then bracket three frames with a 2 EV step size, it's possible for one frame to stray as far as +7 EV from the originally metered exposure. When shooting only two bracketed frames, you can select the extra frame to be shot either above or below the metered value.

So it looks like the HDR function ain't gonna be missed much at all...

[DFW_Warrior]

Correct. The HDR "feature" of the 5100 is just a little internal piece of software that goes ahead and combines the photos for you. Most cameras will do the auto bracketing for HDR processing later on.

[Keith]

I have this really BIG penny jar I toss all of my spare change into and it seems there is enough float in the jar to cover the difference between the D5100 and the D7000 (not really - but hang with me - I'm trying to justify the extra $500).

At any rate - anyone know of a nice D7000 I can pick up on the cheap?

[igo-wfo]

I have a D7000 at work and a 5100 at home (along with a D90 and D200) and I like the dual scroll wheels on the 7000 better than the button+wheel for apeture on the 5100.

Another plus for me on the 7K is the ISO adjustment has a dedicated button that you can adjust with the back wheel vs. a menu option on the 5100.

If you need/want/like to make adjustments on the fly, the 7000 wins, but if you are a bit more relaxed pace, the 5100 will do as well.

For changing light and or other quick adjustments the 7000 wins for me especially with it having the focus drive in the body, I have a couple lenses that will not autofocus on the 5100 that will on the 7000.

[klb1122]

Originally Posted by igo-wfo

Another plus for me on the 7K is the ISO adjustment has a dedicated button that you can adjust with the back wheel vs. a menu option on the 5100.

You should be able to change the fn button in the menus to where you can just hold down the fn button while rotating the wheel on your D5100 to change your ISO on the fly. I've done this on my D3100 and I'm pretty sure you can do the same on the D5100. It does make it easier than going through the menu every time.

[DFW_Warrior]

Originally Posted by klb1122

You should be able to change the fn button in the menus to where you can just hold down the fn button while rotating the wheel on your D5100 to change your ISO on the fly. I've done this on my D3100 and I'm pretty sure you can do the same on the D5100. It does make it easier than going through the menu every time.

Yep. That was one of the very first things I did to the 5100 when I unboxed it.

[igo-wfo]

Man I'm all over that, thanks.

[Duke]

Keith, you have gotten some great advice and direction from the guys so far. I don't think you can go wrong with either the 5100 or the 7000. The 7000 is the more advanced camera by a little but not by too much. A few of features that make the 7000 stand out are:

• faster frame rate 6 vs 4,
• faster shutter speed 1/8000 vs. 1/4000,
• 39 point AF vs. 11 point AF,
• Dual Memory Card Slots vs Single
• the ability to lock the mirror up for image capture
• a weather/dust sealed body.

Not a real big difference overall but they are noticeable, ultimately they are identical in many of the technical specs advertised, it all depends on where you want to go on your journey. Keeping in mind that the D7000 is more expensive.



I see used D7000's pop up now and again over on DGRIN.com and Pixtus.com, as users there are upgrading. They go really quick and are often sold in a matter of days. Just an observation but it is surprising to me just how many "Pro's" use the D7000 / D300 (where the 7000 got the body from) as their primary or secondary camera for events.

Just remember that glass will be a significant cost as you re-enter the photography "scene". To be fair I was not fully appreciative of this when I got back into photography almost 4 years ago now. Lenses will outlast camera bodies for literally decades, and even used "good" glass holds it value. A f/3.5-5.6 zoom lens is great for outdoors and well lit environments, but they make it fairly difficult to capture clean images in low light because of either having to increase the ISO to a point that noise is an issue or there is camera shake visible because of the slow shutter speed needed to get exposure. I am by no means saying that a variable aperture zoom is not able to capture clean images, they are, you just have to have a good technique when hand holding and a depending on the situation a tripod to limit camera movement.

I don't really know what more to add other than, define your budget and spend the money once if possible instead of twice. I hope that makes sense.