death wish

[ryan]

I have a friend who does not ride motorcycles much any more. But his son just got his first street bike few months ago. So I was going over there to go riding with his dad and son. So we could show his how to ride with others safely. On the way I see his son driving his bike. With no fear at all. No helmet and no gear. He was stoping on the front wheel. Then taking off like there was no limit to his driving skill. He was all over the road. He got in a turn that he could not handle to well and almost lost it. I thought organ donor. Before you ask I didn't know that was his son when I seen it happen. I got to my friends house and started telling him about this really smart kid on this bike. Then shortly after his son comes rolling in. I knew then that was the kid that has a death wish. I told his dad right then. His dad took him in the house for about 45 min yelling at first then talking about driving with no fear. I don't know what all was said. They came out my friend asked me to give my two cents. I talked for a while with him about his death wish. Then I asked his son who is around 18 years old. I know your dad wouldn't let you leave with out your helmet. The kid said it was to hot to wear. I told the kid that driving a motorcycle without a helmet. Is like having sex without a condom. Bad things could happen if you go down. More so then if you don't have the right gear. I really don't know how to have the kid realize he should drive with since. Also be and think safe. The kid has no fear. I told his dad he should take him to a group that promotes safety. Well the dad did take the bike away from him. I think dad is handling this problem well. Where the kid think he would look uncool by being safe and driving safe and not be able to show off for his friends. Maybe his son is cooled down to talk. I need to call him back to see how things are now.

[1TallTXn]

sounds like you did the right thing, not sure if you can talk any sense into the kid, but good on you for trying.

[whoa]

What might help the kid is speaking with an older accomplished rider. He might respect that person, and listen to what they have to say. His dad's tactic is probably his best option.

The other thing that might help is for the kid to crash a few times, and maybe realize he can make mistakes. Unfortunately, when we crash we usually blame someone or something else.

When I was a kid, our mentor was an excellent rider who didn't have much to say about safety other than wear a helmet. He killed himself on FM2222 and we attended his funeral. Then promptly went looking for a new mentor. His death didn't phase us a bit.

Your post reminded me of a fatility in Cedar Park Friday afternoon. A 20 year old man, Adam Knox, was passing stopped traffic on the shoulder and T boned a car turning left in front of him. A serious mistake, very sad, and completely avoidable. RIP

[bigdadjohn40]

You did the right thing by talking to him.Whether he'll listen is another matter.I used to work with a woman who says she'll NEVER wear a helmet.I tried to talk to her but her attitude was "If it's my time to go,I'll go".Hopefully this young man will take to heart the things you said.

[ryan]

Originally Posted by bigdadjohn40

You did the right thing by talking to him.Whether he'll listen is another matter.I used to work with a woman who says she'll NEVER wear a helmet.I tried to talk to her but her attitude was "If it's my time to go,I'll go".Hopefully this young man will take to heart the things you said.

i hope so. i was dumb when i was young. but i don't think i was that bad. i think it is up to us to teach the new riders out there. the things we learned from our time on the road. driving on the street is a hole other animal. then driving off the street. you have to look for others all the time. it is really like saying i been driving that riding lawn tractor for 3 years now. i know i can drive a car.

[nevlec]

Get the kid to a race track. Put some race plastic on the bike and let him do a few track days. He will learn humility and hopefully some skills and respect for the asphalt and will do so in an environment that is a whole lot safer than the street. Taking the bike away was wise, just hope that the keys are hidden someplace good...

[tschreck]

+1, but this is common practice with younger inexperienced riders around the world. What can be done, really? Here in the US we sell bike to anyone and they aren't even endorsed on the liscense. No experience required, just your money and you can kill youself or others any way you like. Freedom always has a price to pay. FACT!

[budzrex]

I think you did the right thing as well.

An analogy I use to those who argue helmet use is to ask them if they feel they can survive a 10mph fall without one on the street. They always answer yes, then question them if they feel wood is softer than concrete which they answer correctly. Then I propose to hit them in the head with a bat swung at 10MPH if they can get up they are free to return the 10MPH swing to my helmeted head the idea seems to get across.

Gear does not mean you are prepared to crash, but rather you are prepared to get back up when the inevitable happens.

[Tourmeister]

Just ask them to stand still and fall backwards without catching themselves. Even at 0mph, the fall will get you!

It never occured to me to ride without a helmet. I guess it was all those years in engineering classes talking about inertia, energy absorption, blah blah blah... But what really sealed the deal for me was when a friend took me out to this place near San Marcos. People with closed head injuries live there and he was volunteering on weekends. We walked around the place and he introduced me to many of the patients, permanent residents. Most had no clue I was even standing in front of them as they were basically vegetables. Many were quite young, in their late teens and early twenties. A few were older. Most were accident victims, some bike and others in cars. Seeing those people and the "life" they now led pretty much sealed the deal for me. The human head is a remarkably fragile thing.

Wearing a helmet is no guarantee. One of my good friends was killed a few years ago. He was going the speed limit and left the road. His head hit a tree at about 60mph straight on. He died instantly. I promise you if he were here today, he would be an ardent supporter of wearing helmets. He just happened to get that blunt impact most helmets can't absorb. Still, there are a LOT of other accidents where a helmet can literally mean the difference between living and returning to a normal life, going to that place outside San Marcos, or being dead...

The sad thing is that this kid simply does not understand his own mortality. It is likely that until he is injured or someone close to him is injured, he will never know fear. I just hope he makes it to be one of those old farts that survive to wonder how they made it

[ryan]

this kid was brought up to wear a helmet ever since he was first riding. why he doesn't want to where one now. i do not know. this is all good advice that i am reading.

[Tourmeister]

why he doesn't want to where one now. i do not know.

Because it is not cool. Sounds dumb to an adult (some anyway), but being cool really is that important to some kids (and adults ). Myself, I preferred to be the one watching and thinking, "Ohhh!! THAT had to hurt!!"

[RobH]

Kids today have a phrase called 'street cred'. They are much more worried about this than safety. Wheelies, stoppies, no gear, race replica bikes, etc. gives them more (they believe) street cred. The result in many cases is that they wreck the bike and don't have the cash to fix it, so they stop riding. Many times they just ride to show off or pose rather than actually love to ride, so they stop riding eventually. Some of them will make it through OK and hopefully grow up and become wiser one day.

Originally Posted by whoa

What might help the kid is speaking with an older accomplished rider. He might respect that person, and listen to what they have to say.

[elpaninaro]

I think it is a great thing that you spoke with the kid's father and then got a chance to talk to him as well.

The "street cred" point is dead on target too, and hard to beat that. Don't ask me to name places, but when I had my dirt bike a few years ago, there were certain open to the public MX tracks that I would never ride at. MX was getting real popular and there were just too many kids out at some of these places drinking, riding without the proper gear, and riding very poorly.

Sportbikes are all over the movies now- and so of course they too have become more popular than ever to a crowd that is not really interested in motorcycling.

The real question I think is whether someone is getting into motorcycling because they have a genuine interest in the sport, or if they are getting involved just to make a fashion statement. If the answer is the latter, then discussions about safe riding and proper gear are not even possible because they are not even on the rider's mind.

Six originals were standing tall and proud at the end of my MSF course a couple of weeks ago. Three of us had prior riding experience and were buying/owned bikes appropriate to our level of riding experience (in my case a used dual-sport since I am new to street riding.) The other three had little to no experience and two of them were going to be riding Suzuki GSX-R750s and one was getting a Yamaha R6.

I was not at the top of my class in the MSF, so I hate to judge. But it surprised me to see 3 new riders, all of whom improved greatly in the MSF but still had their trouble spots just as I did, were riding on 250s and getting a real look at the learning curve of riding- and yet still felt they were ready to get right out there and ride incredibly powerful sportbikes.

So what of the many who never even come close to the MSF course- or don't even get a class M license?

The best advice for the posers is to save their money and lives by not buying a motorcycle at all, and instead just buy a bunch of Fox gear and wear it to the mall. They get the same effect, but at least they are not going to die.

PS- For the past few weeks I have been reading and posting at another forum dedicated to beginning motorcyclists. Lots of posts there from newbies who have bought a 600cc+ sportbike and decided to ask for advice after the fact.

You know what the most common excuse is when you ask them why they don't have proper gear or why they have not taken the MSF course?

They spent all their money on the bike...

How do you give further advice in this situation????

[Tourmeister]

How do you give further advice in this situation????

I think the most critical aspect is not to talk down to the rider or get all righteous on them, no matter how strong the desire to do so. This will just cause them to write you off and close their minds to anything further you have to say to them. It is a tough thing to try to challange their actions without coming across this way even if you are not trying to. I think perhaps the best thing to do is to try to get them away from the crowd they are hanging/riding with, even if only temporarily, and expose them to a group more focused on survivial, learning true riding skills and not just stunta skills. Hopefully they will see that there is more to riding than just street cred. Maybe not, but it is worth a shot For some, the call of the squid life style is just to strong. Hopefully they will survive it without killing anyone else.

[ryan]

You know what the most common excuse is when you ask them why they don't have proper gear or why they have not taken the MSF course?

They spent all their money on the bike...

well this may be a start of safety from us. it would be nice if we could help the new riders out there. we could have a ride on sundays. so it wouldn't interfear with school or there weekend. we could have spots in the state where we meet. then go take a ride to where ever we all want to go for lunch. that would give us time to see the new riders weak areas. so we can help them. also we could help them find gear for there budget. just thinking i feel we should do more.

[1TallTXn]

Originally Posted by ryan

well this may be a start of safety from us. it would be nice if we could help the new riders out there. we could have a ride on sundays. so it wouldn't interfear with school or there weekend. we could have spots in the state where we meet. then go take a ride to where ever we all want to go for lunch. that would give us time to see the new riders weak areas. so we can help them. also we could help them find gear for there budget. just thinking i feel we should do more.

thats a good idea, and I hate to rain on it, but how many of these new riders will actually go out and ride with a bunch of "old guys?" I don't think that they will respect anyone unless they are wearing full race leathers on the latest 1kcc SS bike. thats not to say that there isn't a LOAD of info they could garner from the riders of this forum, but I don't know that they would listen. IF they were smart they would, but then if they were smart the woulda bought a Ninja 250

that being said, maybe you could get even one or two to follow along and learn. and if you can help one out then i'm sure its worth it. and maybe, just maybe, he/she will tell friends and bring more along next time.

[ryan]

Originally Posted by tx-vfr

thats a good idea, and I hate to rain on it, but how many of these new riders will actually go out and ride with a bunch of "old guys?" I don't think that they will respect anyone unless they are wearing full race leathers on the latest 1kcc SS bike. thats not to say that there isn't a LOAD of info they could garner from the riders of this forum, but I don't know that they would listen. IF they were smart they would, but then if they were smart the woulda bought a Ninja 250

that being said, maybe you could get even one or two to follow along and learn. and if you can help one out then i'm sure its worth it. and maybe, just maybe, he/she will tell friends and bring more along next time.

i really don't know. maybe we could think of something that would be fun for them. but still let's them learn something.

[Tracker]

Maybe TWT could sponsor a Squidfest! ("trick" 'em into learning something)

[Tx Rider]

Well if your fightin "it's not cool" sounds like the track is the best way to go.

Nothing about the track isn't "cool" right?.

[DaveC]

Track day, naw go ahead and get them in a novice class with 30 other squids on 600's. That well get his adrenaline pumping, he well get to see squidly in action! After getting knocked down, run off the track, near missis he well understand the usefulness of good gear