Thoughts about forum user participation numbers: past, present, and future...

[Tourmeister]

So part of my hope for getting over to a new server and getting email issues sorted out was being able to send out a mass mail to all the registered users on TWT that still have active accounts but who have not been active on the site for a long time (often because of the email issues). As some of you know, the mass email that I tried to send out a few weeks ago caused some serious problems because there were still email issues I wasn't aware off, so very few of the users actually received that email. The problem is that other than email, I really have no way to get the word out to all these users. I have since made changes to the email settings that should fix things, but for technical reasons I still have to wait a while before I can try to send out another mass mail.

As of right now, we are sitting at about 21.5K users that have active accounts. In the last 30 days, about 1450 users have logged into their accounts. That is a mere 6.74% of our total users. If I look at the last three months, it jumps to just over 1900 members, about 8.9% of the total. Running it out to 6 months and one year results in 2362/11% and 3137/14.6%. Those percentages are way down from where they used to be just five or six years ago.

So here is the deal. I could REALLY use your help. If you know of someone(s) that used to be active on the site but doesn't come around much anymore, get in touch with them and invite them to come back around and check things out now that we have changed servers and software. Don't be afraid to engage other riders you happen to encounter while out and about. Point them to the Upcoming rides/events forums:

Upcoming Rides/Trips/Events
https://www.twtex.com/forums/forums/upcoming-rides-trips-and-events.13/

Dualsport Section: Upcoming Rides
https://www.twtex.com/forums/forums/upcoming-ride-trips.46/

Off-Road section: Upcoming Events
https://www.twtex.com/forums/forums/impending-dust-storms-and-mud-baths.54/

Remind them about the Pie Runs
https://www.twtex.com/forums/threads/pie-run-i-koffee-kup-hico-1-26-19.119436/

Now that we've got the SSL stuff sorted, the site rankings appear to be improving and I am seeing more new members coming on board. Still, it would be nice to see some of those long time users come back around. It is not so much that they all need to be posting and stuff, but it would just be nice to know they are coming to the site so that they are aware of opportunities to meet up with other riders and maybe increase their own riding opportunities.

I'd really appreciate any help or ideas.

Thanks

 

[Aspear]

I push the guys I meet randomly who ride this way.
Thanks for the hard work!

 

[Texas T]

Don't be afraid to engage other riders you happen to encounter while out and about. Point them to the Upcoming rides/events forums:

I'd really appreciate any help or ideas.

What's the status on the TWT business cards that we used to be able to print? I know that I use my Tour Of Honor cards a lot.

 

[dukey33]

Have you had a chance to compare the 6-14% activity rate to other forums? Maybe it is close to the industry average. Maybe TWT is doing better than industry average. I think the business term is "benchmarking".
Your numbers may be fine, in which case there really isn't anything to fix. But I do understand the desire to see more people active.

 

[JoToPe]

I read TWT from Tapatalk most of the time. Am I counted as “logged in” from my iPhone, or just from my pc or laptop?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tourmeister]

What's the status on the TWT business cards that we used to be able to print? I know that I use my Tour Of Honor cards a lot.

There is this,

http://twtex.com/linkfiles/TWTCards/TWT-CardNoName.pdf

I forget who made those. You can edit them to add your info.

At one time, I had a huge stack of cards, but they did not look like that. In the early years of TWT, I would stop and talk to just about any rider I saw and hand out cards. In fact, that was a BIG part of the original growth of the site.

Bludogok, made a nice one at one time. The link to the image is no longer working. He is looking for the file for me though. If he finds it, I'll post it up here.

 

[Tourmeister]

I read TWT from Tapatalk most of the time. Am I counted as “logged in” from my iPhone, or just from my pc or laptop?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The forum considers you logged in because TapaTalk uses your TWT username/password to access the forum.

The forum software also keeps stats on what kinds of devices are being used to view the site.

Total of 988 members in the past 720 hours

Browsers
Chrome = 479
Edge = 56
Firefox = 145
Internet Explorer = 52
Safari = 255

Operating systems
Android mobile = 79
Android tablet = 32
iPad = 89
iPhone = 109
Linux = 11
macOS = 122
Windows = 517

Totals
Desktop = 639
Mobile = 188
Tablet = 121

Percentages
Desktop = 67%
Mobile = 20%
Tablet = 13%

If I want, I can login to the TT control panel and see how many people are specifically using TT to view the forum.

 

[Tourmeister]

So here is the stuff Bluedogok had. There are jpgs, pdfs, and some other files that I don't know what type they are.

 

[Tourmeister]

Have you had a chance to compare the 6-14% activity rate to other forums? Maybe it is close to the industry average. Maybe TWT is doing better than industry average. I think the business term is "benchmarking".
Your numbers may be fine, in which case there really isn't anything to fix. But I do understand the desire to see more people active.

Yeah, I've thought about that, but even just comparing numbers to previous times, participation is low. Back when we had half the number of registered users the visits per day, new threads per day, new posts per day, and even new registrations per day were ALL much higher just in terms of raw numbers than they are now. It was not uncommon to have 3500 users on the site in any given 24hr period versus the 450-500 or so we are seeing now. We used to have 100+ new threads per day and now we might have 5-10 on a busy day. We used to have 500-750 new posts per day versus maybe 50-75 now. I used to see 10-15 new users per day compared to 1-2 every few days. So numbers are down across the board. I guess if ALL forums have been tanking in recent years then we might not be any different from anyone else

 

[echavez]

I guess if ALL forums have been tanking in recent years then we might not be any different from anyone else

I blame facebook

 

[Tourmeister]

I blame facebook

Maybe... I think forums still have a lot to contribute in ways that FB cannot. I would much rather read a ride report on a forum. I would much rather read a "how to" or get help from people on a forum. For any real discussion, FB is a real pain to use compared to a forum. To me, FB is really more of a place to keep up with distant friends/family than for pursuing hobby related activities. Forums are also MUCH better in terms of archiving information like ride reports, how to threads, and LONG ongoing discussions like the home brew thread, the gun porn thread, the BBQ thread, etc,... Throw in all the negative aspects of the politics on FB and I'd rather there was a better way for keeping up with friends/family. I know a lot of people that have deleted their FB accounts for that very reason. I am close... but just not quite ready to do so.

But, I have no doubt that FB and social media has had an impact on forum usage. I just don't know if it is really as bad as some folks might think

 

[Aspear]

I blame facebook

Not everyone has Facebook

 

[echavez]

Oh I know, I'm one of those people. I used to have one. I remember being a member of some fb groups that originated from forums. I also remember seeing a lot more posts on the fb groups than their respective forums.
I think fb groups are good for quick things like impromptu meets/rides, "hey how do I get this nut off", and for sale posts. I also agree with @Tourmeister on how forums are much better with archiving. Ever try to search through a facebook group? It's terrible!

either way I still blame facebook

 

[Windmill]

I was intimidated at first because of the change. Now I like the new format much better than the old, especially posting pictures and editing. Really like the Alert and watched and search, works much better for me. If I can navigate it anyone can Smiles are also better

 

[mitchntx]

I blame facebook

I blame the type of riding the users here are primarily interested in.

I would venture a guess that street/dirt (adventure) make up 60-70% of the ACTIVE TWT population.
5-10% primarily touring, 20% casual street (commuting, day-trips, fair weather head clearers, sport riders etc)

With Texas having so few options for off-pavement riding, newer riders just don't have that exposure.
Most of us are over 40, I venture a guess and large portion of those are over 55. Most of those grew up on dirt bikes.
We had fields, gravel pits and plenty of dirt roads to explore.

Now it's more urbanized and counties and municipalities are paving dirt roads due to maintenance costs.

Consequently, the draw for like riders isn't huge.
It's not wrong, it's just our lifestyle.

There are four major TWT forum sections.
1/2 are dedicated to off-road riding.
And half of the remaining is dedicated to Admin.
So the site leans to that population and genre.

When was the last time a new sport bike rider joined?
Who was the first to call him a squid and chop his/her knees about ATGATT and acting a fool?

Or someone wanting to participate in a Tiddler ride?
And then scorned for blocking downtown Dallas traffic (even though the person never sees Dallas traffic).

Motorcyclists come in all kinds of shapes and forms. But the common denominators are Two Wheels and Texans.
I think until there is some embracing of those other forms we may not particularly care for, the population on niche sites like TWT will continue to dwindle.

Let me add that the internet and google search has turned ***-hats into instant know-it-alls and able to regurgitate the opinions of others.
Experience using search engines doesn't translate into working on real engines and forming one's own opinion and then having the balls to express it.

OMO
YVMV

 

[Tourmeister]

I blame the type of riding the users here are primarily interested in.

I would venture a guess that street/dirt (adventure) make up 60-70% of the ACTIVE TWT population.
5-10% primarily touring, 20% casual street (commuting, day-trips, fair weather head clearers, sport riders etc)

There are four major TWT forum sections.
1/2 are dedicated to off-road riding.
And half of the remaining is dedicated to Admin.
So the site leans to that population and genre.

The division of the site is just based on the basic street, adventure, and dirt categories without regard for the popularity of one group over the other or the numbers of members that might identify with one group or the other. I have always been amazed at the number of members that cross all three categories. Come to a Pie Run and you are likely to see all manner of bikes. I've seen restoration jobs, custom bikes, side car rigs, trikes, cruisers, full on crotch rockets, big touring rigs, and of course adventure/dualsport bikes. I wll admit that for whatever reason, it seems like the adventure/dualsport group seems to be more visible on the forum itself. Maybe it is just because they take more pictures of their adventures?

When was the last time a new sport bike rider joined?
Who was the first to call him a squid and chop his/her knees about ATGATT and acting a fool?

Or someone wanting to participate in a Tiddler ride?
And then scorned for blocking downtown Dallas traffic (even though the person never sees Dallas traffic).

Motorcyclists come in all kinds of shapes and forms. But the common denominators are Two Wheels and Texans.
I think until there is some embracing of those other forms we may not particularly care for, the population on niche sites like TWT will continue to dwindle.

I totally agree that the average age of TWT users is probably over 40. We definitely don't tend to attract the young 20 something "hip" sport bike crowd. However, when they do find their way here, I think TWT users are generally pretty good about not going off on them and trying hard to make them feel welcome. Early on I made a point of making sure people knew that I would not tolerate jumping all over newbies and treating them like idiots for ANY reason. I had seen that kill a local Houston site and did not want a repeat of that here. Still, I am sure some riders might come here, see the general culture, and without ever posting a thing, just move on because it is not their culture. Likewise, someone looking for the stereotypical cruiser crowd probably would not stick around here because this site just doesn't give off that vibe. Even if I wanted to, I don't think that could ever be overcome without essentially destroying what has made TWT stand out from so many other sites where anything goes.

It is a dilemma...

What I was really getting at with my opening post is not how to get new members, but how to contact existing members to bring them back to the site, at least just to drop in and check it out if they have not been by in a while. No doubt, many of those older members have probably moved on because of life changes. Some may have moved on because their motorcycling tastes changed and they felt more comfortable elsewhere. But, my feeling is that there were also a LOT that may have just gotten out of the routine of checking the site every now and then because the email notification features were not working properly for them. They got busy, they weren't getting emails, and before they may have even realized it their routines changed and they just kind of forgot about the site. So I'm wanting to just get out a, "Hey, we're still here!" kind of message and then let the pieces land where they may.

Let me add that the internet and google search has turned ***-hats into instant know-it-alls and able to regurgitate the opinions of others.
Experience using search engines doesn't translate into working on real engines and forming one's own opinion and then having the balls to express it.

OMO
YVMV

Okay. True as that may be, I'm not even gonna ask because I know there is probably something behind that which it would be better to have explained over a cold beer

 

[Tracker]

Oh I know, I'm one of those people. I used to have one. I remember being a member of some fb groups that originated from forums. I also remember seeing a lot more posts on the fb groups than their respective forums.
I think fb groups are good for quick things like impromptu meets/rides, "hey how do I get this nut off", and for sale posts. I also agree with @Tourmeister on how forums are much better with archiving. Ever try to search through a facebook group? It's terrible!

either way I still blame facebook

I agree about FB.
Scott, you're also right, the format of TWT is way better for ride reports and long extended threads. The other part is actual rider numbers in the state of TX. I suspect they're going down.
For a number of reasons, I killed off my FB account New Year's Day. 15 more days and it's "permanently" deleted. Why? short answer, ashamed to say, but I was addicted.
End of the day, we only have so much time. FB use goes up, TWT forum use goes down.
For me, I want to do more, rather than live vicariously through FB posts.

 

[South Tex]

. Forums are also MUCH better in terms of archiving information like ride reports, how to threads, and LONG ongoing discussions like the home brew thread, the fun porn thread, the BBQ thread, etc,...


Are you secretly trying to get more viewers with the “fun porn thread”?

 

[Vec]

I push the guys I meet randomly who ride this way.

same here, last wednesday i was out on the DR650 in the middle of nowhere between Kerrville and comfort at a T in the road and had stopped to check the map on my ipotato to see which way i wanted to go and a fella on a crf250 honda rode past...

I waved and he went about half a mile past and turned around and came back to make sure i was not having mechanical trouble, we chatted for 15 mins or so, he had recently retired and moved here from Houston area, he owns that little Honda, and a Triumph, and used to have a BMW GS, I slipped the TWT forum into the conversation several times and he did mention that he was on the ADV forum, as we parted directions I mentioned to him to check out two wheeled texans when he gets a chance.

 

[Tuco]

What I was really getting at with my opening post is not how to get new members, but how to contact existing members to bring them back to the site, at least just to drop in and check it out if they have not been by in a while. No doubt, many of those older members have probably moved on because of life changes. Some may have moved on because their motorcycling tastes changed and they felt more comfortable elsewhere

I think both need to be addressed: getting new and contacting old. My newbie experience was that I stumbled upon TWT while reading the AdvRider forum. My BMW salesman refered me to Advrider as the go-to site but didn't mention TWT. There has to be some easy no cost ways to get the word out about this site to new people. In refererece to the above business card conversation, use business card bulletin boards. I see them around quite a bit. Or, while group camping, display a simple sign like "TWTex.com". I know it sounds silly but simple things like that can spark people to check it out, are little to no cost, and requires very little effort. Occasional charity events?

Speaking of costs, are there any incremental system costs incurred as a result of these inactive accounts?

I tend to agree about FB. I don't have an account but my wife spends hours on it each day. Too many online avenues for people to waste their time and FB is the mother of all time wasters.

 

[OldTLSDoug]

So, Mitch, does this mean you don't like my knee-dragging, short riding and over 60 butt?

I tell everyone I meet on a scooter to try out TWT. Most of them are folks looking for rides, so I am surprised when they don't come over here. I think Mitch has it right, we are a niche forum that is full of a different generation. Lots of us remember when forums were via email. I used to post up a lot of how too posts because in the middle to late 90's there was nothing there to search.

It may actually be that we suffer from the success of the internet and it's evolution. Plus, this is also basically a Christian environment and I think that can impact whether folks want to participate here.

Funny thing, again based on what Mitch said so well, we are indeed a niche group. Since I have been here I started back to riding in the dirt and have a trials bike.

I enjoy the forum and the folks I meet and ride, eat and talk with, this is a great place to me. If only 3-5 folks were here I would still be here enjoying it.

 

[TwinSpar]

I'm a moderator on DirtRider.Net. At one time that place was one of the largest dirt bike forums out there. We had a yearly event call Dirt Week that we peaked out at 400 dirt bikes in attendance. We eventually had to kill the event due to the cost of insurance and just the pure work load it put on the owner of the site. Between social media and no longer having that event, the site has become a ghost town. There are still a few of us old timers that still get on there but there just isn't the volume any more. The owner has tried revamping the site and various other techniques to get more activity but it really hasn't resulted in much more activity. It's too bad. That site had members with incredible knowledge (industry folks) that were willing to help out on technical discussions. So much knowledge sharing that you just don't see as much anymore.

TWT, Max Zuki, and AF1 Aprilia forums still have good content but volume has dropped on each of those sites over the years. I also think YouTube has helped to reduce many of the how to questions. It's amazing how many procedures have been documented over the years by people and put on youtube. Why bother asking on a forum when you can do a youtube search and watch someone do the procedure that you are researching.

 

[mitchntx]

So, Mitch, does this mean you don't like my knee-dragging, short riding and over 60 butt?

Forgive this humble servant, Grand Poo-Bah ...
I love you, man ...


... uncomfortable yet?

I tell everyone I meet on a scooter to try out TWT.

I do too ... but if something doesn't immediately spark an interest, folks move on.
Facebook is a wasteland. But face facts, there is something there that pulls you in ... piques the interest.
I think one gets used to it and if they immediately connect with something, off to the next site.

It may actually be that we suffer from the success of the internet and it's evolution. Plus, this is also basically a Christian environment and I think that can impact whether folks want to participate here.

I'll say it ... I think it's ludicrous that three or four asterisks is somehow going to magically shield folks from knowing exactly what is said and the context of the thought.
I'm not sure if it turns folks away, but it certainly makes me raise an eyebrow when I'm chastised for a photo I post then same person who is offended drives like a maniac, breaking dozens of traffic laws. It hurts your witness, brother.

we are indeed a niche group. Since I have been here I started back to riding in the dirt and have a trials bike.

I enjoy the forum and the folks I meet and ride, eat and talk with, this is a great place to me. If only 3-5 folks were here I would still be here enjoying it.

Yup ... I've made life-long friends here. It took work on my part, but it has happened.

 

[mitchntx]

Why bother asking on a forum when you can do a youtube search and watch someone do the procedure that you are researching.

OMG ... that is such a pet peeve of mine.
Someone will ask a question about something specific and some ***-hat will respond with use the search tool.
Doesn't seem to happen so much here, but geez on ADVRider ...

 

[notyou83]

the fun porn thread

I seem to have missed that section.

Seriously though, I know the person who told me about the site used to check it all the time, but now I think they just visit the forums without logging in as they don't have much to say. Are the thread views down as well in comparison to past thread views? I know I love when a zombie ride report pops up that I've never seen as it gives me something to new to read. On top of that, I can find places I should go visit as well. Gives me goals and ideas.