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Avoidable...maybe not

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rick
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hirsch
My general opinion is that most accidents are avoidable. Paying attention goes a long way. BUT, this one caught on a dash cam, makes me think this one wasn't. The car that rolls 3X seems to have been paying attention and tried to avoid the situation, they didn't have much time to react. I only hope that the dash cam person followed the 18 wheeler and got the license plate #'s. www.montgomerycountypolicereporter At this time it is the second post.
 
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The video does not show enough to know if the truck stopped down the road. If he didn't, I hope the dash cam person caught up and got his info.
Maybe hard braking would have avoided the situation for the car that rolled but they would have needed to react immediately.
 
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I coudn't get your 2nd link to work, but I saw it on the news. It did look like the rig moved on the car awfully fast. I used to teach the National Safety Council Defensive Driving Course. The NSC's position was that at least 90% of all accidents could reasonably be avoided by the vehicle judged not at fault. Over the years, my observations pretty much bear that out. We need to see more video on this, but I agree this may well have been unavoidable, given the move the truck appears to have put on the car. In fact, at 1st glance I thought it was a deliberate hit.
 
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Belay that. Got your link to work, and it shows more that Dallas news did. The trucker reportedly claimed the car was in his blind spot. Looks to me like he was moving up into the car's blind spot. The truck should have seen him. All the car had to do was not check his mirror for about 1.5 seconds for this to happen. Most us check every few seconds, but not quite THAT frequently unless we're specifically watching for something.
 
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Cypress Tx
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Typical dock truck , probly a non English speaking driver , lane change with no signal , car is in front of the truck and that was defiantly the drivers blind spot since he didn’t bother looking or signaling before a lane change . perfect time to call law 1000 . The best safety tip is to limit your exposure to unsafe drivers and beater trucks hauling dock freight is next in line for being the worst behind dump trucks .
 
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Typical dock truck , probly a non English speaking driver , lane change with no signal , car is in front of the truck and that was defiantly the drivers blind spot since he didn’t bother looking or signaling before a lane change . perfect time to call law 1000 . The best safety tip is to limit your exposure to unsafe drivers and beater trucks hauling dock freight is next in line for being the worst behind dump trucks .
Bike or car, I stay clear of trucks if possible, if can't avoid I get by them very quickly. Common sense tells anyone not to spend time by one, for reason in video or if they throw a cap off the tire. Stay clear!
 
Joined
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Seabrook, TX
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Dave
I agree, both primary and secondary collisions were avoidable. But it requires all drivers to be on the ball 100% of the time and I will admit even I cannot be on 100% of the time.
 
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I agree, both primary and secondary collisions were avoidable. But it requires all drivers to be on the ball 100% of the time and I will admit even I cannot be on 100% of the time.
Very, very hard to do 100 % of the time.
 

mitchntx

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Motorcycle riding begat a heightened sense of situational awareness over the years.
Made me visualize the potential situations and ride accordingly.

But nothing hones that sixth sense like auto racing.

From my POV
Hallett racing circuit near Tulsa
circa 20011
Speeds are in excess of 70mph through this complex

 
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Fort Worth
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Belay that. Got your link to work, and it shows more that Dallas news did. The trucker reportedly claimed the car was in his blind spot. Looks to me like he was moving up into the car's blind spot. The truck should have seen him. All the car had to do was not check his mirror for about 1.5 seconds for this to happen. Most us check every few seconds, but not quite THAT frequently unless we're specifically watching for something.
Even watching his mirror constantly might not have helped. The truck came over pretty quickly.
 

MidlifeCrisis

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Okay, I'll be the one to play devil's advocate...

While I agree there was basically no reaction time allowance for the car in the video, but it is reasonable to expect the car's driver to be aware of that 18wheeler's presence. There is no way an 80ft long trailer can sneak up on a car driver without being seen. That 18wheeler is way longer than the car's blind spot. Especially on a bike, I'm very leery of being next to large vehicles like that. I'm either passing them, or changing lanes to move away from them. Last thing I want to do is to cruise along the hwy next to a big rig like that.

Yes, I realize sometimes tight traffic situations just don't allow me to get away, but this was clearly not the case in the video.
 

2WheelNut

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Motorcycle riding begat a heightened sense of situational awareness over the years.
Made me visualize the potential situations and ride accordingly.

But nothing hones that sixth sense like auto racing.

From my POV
Hallett racing circuit near Tulsa
circa 20011
Speeds are in excess of 70mph through this complex

Looks like Everybody's Favorite Corner wasn't the favorite at that moment. :)

Good job avoiding the crash.
 

mitchntx

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Okay, I'll be the one to play devil's advocate...

While I agree there was basically no reaction time allowance for the car in the video, but it is reasonable to expect the car's driver to be aware of that 18wheeler's presence. There is no way an 80ft long trailer can sneak up on a car driver without being seen. That 18wheeler is way longer than the car's blind spot. Especially on a bike, I'm very leery of being next to large vehicles like that. I'm either passing them, or changing lanes to move away from them. Last thing I want to do is to cruise along the hwy next to a big rig like that.

Yes, I realize sometimes tight traffic situations just don't allow me to get away, but this was clearly not the case in the video.
Wow ... well said.

In other words, you just can't meander along in air conditioned stereo with the cruise engaged.
Each driver has skin in the game and should pay attention accordingly.

In the referenced video, the SUV that rolled clearly saw the truck/car interaction, as evidenced in their changing lanes to avoid even before the SUV entered camera frame.
What is not so clear and appears, the SUV was travelling much faster than the truck/car and either didn't slow aggressively or any at all.
Look at the SUV's brake lights. Not on at all till a split second before it's tagged and sent rolling.

He had skin in the game and didn't play well.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
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Pure speculation here...car might have been under the trucks passenger door where driver can't see it. Closest I can compare is in a 4x4 ram pulling a 35' rv. There are some dinky little cars that can hide on the passenger side below where I can see them. After the first time of nearly tagging one I learned to look for it in the mirror. It's sadly not uncommon and aggravating. But yeah, I stay the heck away from trucks. Interstate 20 up by Sweetwater is so bad that I'll drive more miles just to avoid it. Very aggressive truckers and lots of them.
 
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It wasn't me, I'm still in training and they won't let me drive yet.
But, take it from someone who has and will be driving a tractor-trailer rig, that whole right side is mostly a blind spot. Do not drive there! Not arguing who's fault it is, just use common sense and don't die. Car = 5000 lbs (most are less). Legally, trucks can be up to 80,000 lbs. Doesn't take a science major to figure the outcome.
 

Meriden

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At the back of the pack and out of the dust
So I'm driving about 250 miles on I10 every week and it makes me crazy when some guy on cruise control takes five minutes to pass a truck. It's not just that they are blocking faster traffic which is building up behind them, but because they are in such a risky place. I won't begin to pass a truck until I can make it all the way in front of him.
 
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I agree. Come up on a truck - particularly on a MC - and you need to burn a little gas & get by quickly. The trucker will probably thank you.

As best as I can tell from this video, though, the truck had been moving up on the car's left. A few seconds before the vid started, the truck should have had a full view of the car, forward & to his right. At least based on what I can tell from the video, I can't really see any excuse for the truck to have been unaware of the car's presence.

Now, back to the car. Was it avoidable? Yes if he had decided to proactively change lanes & put some extra distance between him & the truck. If I were the car, I'd be watching that truck for sure, but in most instances, I wouldn't move to another lane. What the truck did was totally unexpected & sudden. It would be different if the car had drifted up on the truck & taken station, but that wasn't the case.

Frankly, in most urban areas where trucks are a constant, you can't reasonably move over every time one passes - once you're trapped in the right hand lane, where do you move next?
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
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Dallas, TX
I'm generally in the "most things can be avoided" camp. In this particular situation, however, I don't know there's much the car could have done - traffic in front of them appeared to be slowing (which the approaching truck could have clearly seen) due to the semi a couple cars up changing lanes, and there was a fair bit of traffic, so the car driver would have been a bit preoccupied with that IMO.

Even I don't constantly change lanes just because there's a semi near me - I try to minimize my time near them, but I don't run from them constantly either.

Now, the SUV on the other hand, saw the car spinning out and chose to continue on at their "higher than everyone else" speed. At the very least, they could have slowed significantly before impact and probably greatly reduced the extent of their involvement/damage, even if they struggled to avoid it all together.

There are instances when someone does something dumb enough that, outside of being aware they were going to pull that move ahead of time, there's little to nothing anyone could do to avoid it. Sometimes, you really do just get the shortest end of the stick.
 

Monica

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Texas
I don't doubt the car was in the 18wheeler's blind spot, they hide in my Ram 2500's spot like that a lot, it is aggravating because they will pace me and stay there. and I have to be extra diligent to get my head turned around, craned, leaed over, triple checked before I can make a move so I don't cause I scene like in the video That said, the car doesn't deserve to be smashed, but it is their hazard if they remain hidden like that. As for the 18wheeler driver, no blinker? Did he even check his mirrors? Who knows...

The trailing veh that got wrapped up, hard to say. I've been that trailing veh when a car in the inside lane caught a tire on the edge of the lane and it got pulled into the cement center median, then bounced off and ran straight across traffic like that car. I was hauling through at 72mph and it was the hand of God that my truck was able to get through before that car hit me. I had a veh on my right and could not swerve, I had vehs behind me and I could not brake hard or I'd cause more collisions. I had to roll through as best I could, it worked out.

When I went through driver's ed, and when my parents took me out to practice, they beat it into my head STAY OUT OF VEHICLES BLIND SPOTS. DO NOT STAY NEXT TO 18WHEELERS. So the way I drive today, I don't drive next to people where they can take me down with them. I get a move on by slowing down or speeding up, or just changing a lane over if possible.

That crash avoidable? Yeah. But people never think anything will go wrong until it does.
 
Joined
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rick
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hirsch
I do think that most "accidents" are avoidable. As Motorcycle riders, I know our awareness level is ten fold that of the average cager. I would not have stayed anywhere close to that 18 wheeler if clearing him was an option. As far as the car that came in late and rolled (3x?), it does look like they were moving faster than the flow of traffic. Now, this is my assessment of vehicle 3, probably on cruise control, going faster than most traffic, not fully aware, swerved at the last minute when paying attention and braking would have kept them from being swept up in the initial pileup.
And yes, racing experience might make you a bit of a risk taker but vehicle control skills, awareness and reaction time are above and beyond. Those are skills a racer uses everyday, not just on the track.
 

Lucydad

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Sugar Land, TX
Agree on avoiding blindspots, and trucks in general. What gives me the pucker: stopping for yellow light, and cagers behind me blowing around and through a very red light. Happened again to me here in Sugar Land, this time driving my Miata. Reckless, dangerous, lethal. Ugh.
 
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