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Big MC vs. scooter ride comparo

Joined
Apr 23, 2020
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Location
Cedar Park, Texas, USA
If you guys are not actively ignoring my posts, I'm sure you know that I have added scooters to our stable and I really like riding them. This comes up all the time though: should one switch from riding motorcycles to scooters, or why would you pick one over the other. I've mentioned many times that for short trips and errands, the scooter just flat out wins hands down. Even if one of my Triumphs is parked on the curb warmed up with the keys in it, if I have to run to the grocery store to pick up a small number of things, I'll go pull the Vespa down and take it instead. 100%.

What about the other way around?

Last week I managed to get out and ride my Bonneville on 1+ hour rides two days in a row. I did routes that I often do, and that I enjoy quite a lot. One day was US183 N to FM1869 west to FM1174 South to FM1431 back east to CP. Next day was connecting from an errand to Leander, back up Bagdad Rd. south to hop over on New Hope Rd. west, jog a couple of blocks back East on FM1431 to Anderson Mill Rd, then take Lime Creek Rd. all the way to the end at Volente, and Volente back to Cedar Park. These are good 1-1.5hr fun rides on the Triumph.

Prior to those rides, I hadn't brought the Bonnie out of the garage in over a month. It's been hot, so I don't really like getting out on a big ride like this. But a week or so before I needed some two wheel therapy of an hour plus and the GTS250 was out on the curb so I decided to see how it did. For this ride I left home and rode down Scottsdale to work my way towards Crystal Falls Parkway through Block House and Horizon Park. Then over west to Lakeline, which I took North to FM2243. I rolled back east on FM2243 up to some random connection of back roads that I eventually got to connect back to FM1431 in Cedar Park. This ride took me an hour or so, and I had intentionally picked slower roads.

OK, so here's the thing. Comparing essentially back to back, quick thoughts.

The actual ride, that is interacting with the bike and covering miles of tarmac, is more enjoyable on the Bonnie. There's a lot more to do as an operator of a regular motorcycle, and you really feel the road and have to find the right lines and pay attention to the surface, appreciate the actual road more on the big moto. I do notice big vistas and major sights to see when on the motorcycle, and in fact that FM1174 route I typically ride is chosen because it puts some insanely great views right in front of me. But there's a lot of stuff you just kind of ride past without noticing it, because your attention is on the road itself. The big moto ride satisfies the urge to just be one with the machine.

The scooter, even though it's fully capable of exceeding the speed limits on the very same roads, and in some cases I even covered the same roads, just does not provide nearly the same experience. You just slow down a lot for the corners, no point not doing that. You don't work your bodyweight to get it to corner properly. You don't have to change gears. You don't fiddle with braking. You just ride and look around. Which is to say, you notice about 1000x more stuff along the way than you do riding the big motorcycle. But the roads that are fun on the big bike are just stuff you kind of endure between points of interest on the scooter. I noticed a whole lot of cool stuff while doing the scooter version of my ride that I hadn't noticed on a hundred rides before.

One thing that really stuck out in the contrast though is just how annoying it is sitting in traffic on the Triumph. When getting out of what is turning into variable urban style gridlock in Cedar Park, the Bonneville is a chore and really makes you hate being on it, especially if it's hot. The scooter is far more enjoyable in this kind of traffic.

But still, I'll have to say, if you are going to ride just to ride, the Bonneville is the way. It's a better experience. It's effortless where the scooter is a little bit white-knuckl-ey (>60 mph), and where the scooter is effortless it requires skills but it's skills you enjoy deploying (low speeds, tight corners, etc.). The scooter is the better choice if there is a destination you are going to, and there's no moto-fun route to get there. And the scooter is way better if you are going to be navigating or parking in small spaces, or if your stop is a short one.

This is why I probably ride my scooter 10x as frequently as I do either of the Triumphs, and I ride about 10x as many miles on the Triumphs as I do on the scooter.

Unless you live way out in the country, I think a two-wheel Texan should have one of each.
 
I’ve got both and gotta say that the scoot really is fun to ride. But, the roads around my hood are pretty busted up due to the clay soil and I don’t ride it as much as I’d like due to the limited suspension travel and jarring ride. Although it wasn’t my original intention, I find myself running my small cc dual sports due to the larger wheels and longer suspension travel
 
I have a BMW R1200RT. It is the consummate touring bike, and love to ride it. But in traffic it is a pig. I also have a 29" inseam, and it is an effort to keep the bike upright when stopped or nearly stopped. Earlier this year, I picked up a Vespa GTS300. That little scooter is a blast to ride. It is super maneuverable and amazingly powerful. It is perfect for dealing with traffic. I average over 100 miles per week in short trips to Home Depot, HEB and other errands. It is supposed to be a touring scooter. But I sure can't sit on that seat for more than 30 minutes. I can't imagine touring on that scooter :giveup:

The two bikes compliment each other and I enjoy them both :thumb:
 
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Although it wasn’t my original intention, I find myself running my small cc dual sports due to the larger wheels and longer suspension travel

You're definitely on to something with that. I think for big-moto riders, it's tempting to lump scooters into the "small motorcycle" category, and this is a reason many overlook the utility of them. But they also tend to overlook the utility of any small-displacement motorbike. I think this is mostly some socio-psychological trait that I don't happen to have that drives this. For more seasoned riders, I think they have just experienced some downside of inadequate power or light weight enough times in their experience, or early enough in their experience, that it flipped some bit in their brains so they just don't consider the upside of a small, light motorcycle. It's like they've just quit ever doing the kinds of things on a motorbike that favor a small, light machine.

If I had room for it, and lived closer to any kind of rough roads, I would have jumped on a Super Sherpa deal that's popped up here on TWT. Out at my parents' place in Castell, a small dual-sport would be perfect. 45mph speed limit back roads plus lots of deep sand/gravel county roads would make it a virtual necessity. You're 30 miles from any road that would totally benefit from a >500cc motorcycle and the downside of a 400+ lb bike is going to smack you in the face (maybe literally) all the time. Even riding my ADV-ized GS500 at <360 lb was very dicey on those gravel roads. I actually think my Stellauto with knobby/dual-sport tires would be terrific for that environment, or a 250cc dual-sport with some storage would also be great.
 
Earlier this year, I picked up a Vespa GTS300. That little scooter is a blast to ride. It is super maneuverable and amazingly powerful. It is perfect for dealing with traffic. I average over 100 miles per week in short trips to Home Depot, HEB and other errands. It is supposed to be a touring scooter. But I sure can't sit on that seat for more than 30 minutes. I can't imagine touring on that scooter :giveup:

The two bikes compliment each other and I enjoy them both :thumb:

Of course you know that's essentially an evolved version of my GTS250, and many parts (including the seat) interchange. I think compared with a touring motorcycle, you sit "on" the GTS vs. "in" the GS. Same is true for my GS500, esp. vs. my Triumphs. But anyway, it's not the seat that bothers me on the GTS, it's things that are hard to change about the riding position. I ride on the balls of my feet, which puts them below and behind the nose of the saddle, and there's only like an inch of floor board in that area on my GTS. Since I have more like a 34" inseam, my legs are too long to use the passenger pegs, but I need footpegs in about the same place only about 4-6" lower. Likewise the "hump" in the seat is essentially exactly where I want to sit on it, so a seat that was pillion height all the way to the front would be a big improvement for me. The result of the suboptimal riding position is that it hurts my back if I ride it more than about 45 minutes. But the seat is comfortable enough for me to be on it for many hours.

Anyway, with the Dr. Pulley sliders, my GTS is very peppy, just about the same amount of hp as your 300, depending on year, maybe about 10-15% less. Just less torque at lower revs. The sliders likely make up for this difference to some extent since they let it rev higher quicker. It's more than quick enough. I can get ahead of normal auto traffic whenever I want from a stop light. And I've had it up to nearly 80mph. It's substantially quicker than my dad's TU250X, and with far better brakes. I'm really surprised how much I love riding the GTS.

My most comfortable motorcycle is the one I never ride. The GS500 with my dialed-in seat, improved ergos and an inch or more additional suspension travel vs. the rest of my bikes makes it by far the most comfortable. But that seems to be the least of my concerns, since I only ride it about once a year. Often times I'll ride my GTS more than once a day.
 
I'm loving my Honda NT700V because it's not that big or heavy, handles great, stable on the highway, lots of luggage, and fun to ride.
 
I am now a scooter only rider. I really enjoyed all of my other bikes and types of rides. The Ducati ST3s was wonderful for road trips, and my DRZ400 was unbeatable on dirt/trail riding. As I have gotten older the 300 miles ride to get out of Dallas to more fun scenery riding just became less fun. Same for the DRZ having to trailer it to an area outside of Dallas to ride. The scooter is ready to go and I ride it all over Dallas and the areas around the city up to about 100 miles. Yes, I do pay a lot more attention to scenery and less about corner entry speed. I do find it funny how many road bike riders see you are on a scooter and discount you as a bike rider. BTW I am riding a Yamaha XMAX 300 scooter.
 
Interesting topic. My problem is that I have about three blocks through the neighborhood to the main road, which is a 55mph road, so you know what the traffic speed is there. I don't even care to ride my DRZ or KTM500 on that road, so a smaller DS or similar wouldn't be a good choice for me. I do need to sell the DRZ and have been toying with trying to find a decent trade on a scooter that would work in my area, probably a bergman or something similar. It'd be nice to have something smaller to run basic errands around town on.
 
My GTS 250 is fine on 55mph suburban highways. It'll get up to 70+ before you know it.
Yeah, mine will do 75, but that is a lot faster than I want to go on 12" wheels. :eek2: It will quickly jump up to 50 mph, which is fast enough to deal with most traffic situations around Houston. Many of the maxi scooters are much faster. But the majority of the world gets along fine 150 cc GY6's. There are lots of options. Scooter riding just takes a little getting used to and some ingenuity. :thumb:
I like riding my scooter in the 45-50 mph range, and that is where I get my optimum performance and maneuverability. I also find that locating alternate routes helps me get where I want to go more safely and sometime quicker. ;-)
 
A scooter is definitely in my future as my riding evolves. 10 years ago, a 600–1000-mile day was in the realm of the usual. Nowadays my big rides are Arkansas and the Hill Country, both within 400 miles from me. And I've considered getting a scooter, or a Trail 125, for around town. The Tracer ain't the best for that, and the W800 is just OK
 
I love anything with two wheels but especially scooters; their casual convenience can't be matched, especially for in-town, slow-speed stuff. I used to think nothing of throwing on a hoodie and a bicycle helmet to ride my little 50cc Genuine Roughhouse to the Grocery store or the convenience mart. Then, when you get there, you can park just about any place out of the way and get your business done before heading home. For those tasked, the scoot was more convenient than a car, never mind a motorcycle! (even a small displacement bike, and I have several ranging from 47 to 250+ cc)

I had a wonderful GTV300ie that I miss. I thought a 70's 2T Vespa Super 150 could scratch that itch and sound cooler. It does sound cooler, but it doesn't scratch the itch. A modern 300-ish Vespa is definitely in my future as soon as the right one pops up.
 
I love anything with two wheels but especially scooters; their casual convenience can't be matched, especially for in-town, slow-speed stuff. I used to think nothing of ...when you get there, you can park just about any place out of the way and get your business done

100%.

FWIW regarding the Super 150 vs. the modern 300, I can attest a Genuine Stella Automatic is like a perfect mix of the two. It's got that playful chassis like a PX but with modern disc brakes and a twist-and-go CVT. On the downside, they have all of the reliability you would expect out of a vintage Italian motorbike, coupled with the parts and build quality you'd expect from an Indian domestic market transportation appliance. Oh, and the actual manufacturer went out of business over 5 years ago so any part that's not 100% compatible with an old PX is one you'll have to fab yourself or find a way to fit an alternate part. That includes the entire engine and transmission. Getting PX parts to work is an act of patient trial and error.

Speaking of my Stellauto, I might go out today on my day off and start tearing mine apart. Gotta do a proper tank cleaning with the tank off the bike, which appears to be very difficult to do. And while it's apart I think I'm going to try yet again to successfully switch it to a Keihin carb. But I miss riding it tremendously, even though I have a far less troublesome GTS250 to get groceries with.
 
Ya'll might have convinced me. When I'm back home I might start poking around to find a decent trade for the DRZ. Nothing vintage for sure, I'd rather ride than wrench. As for alternate routes...I gotta get out of my neighborhood which means 55mph speed limits and pulling out into traffic that takes that limit as a suggestion. ;)
 
As I might have mentioned, my Stellauto maxes out at 53mph. There is a point where these modern CVT scooters will hit the rev limiter and they are at the maximum gear ratio so their top speed is pretty fixed. Anyone who tells you it will go faster than the manufacturer's published top speed is talking about going downhill or something.

To go >55 mph with less than a few miles of runway is going to require north of 10hp. There are very few 125cc class scooters with >10hp, and it's not that common with 150cc scooters. A little inside baseball, the "200cc" class of modern scooters are usually much closer to 150cc and often have no more power. Like, a 171cc scooter is probably marketed as 200cc.

If you get something new enough to have EFI, then a typical 150 is going to have 11+ hp. This will get the job done. You do lose something going from the 150cc to the 250cc+ class, which is mostly about size and weight. There's a real significant difference in the feel going from my Stellauto at about 250 lb to the GTS with 2" bigger wheels and about 310 lb. It's like your DR-Z vs. a KLR650. It really affects where you will ride it. Also, on the 250lb or less scooters, I can lift either end and move it, either by the grab bar or the handlebar. I'm reasonably strong for a guy my age and size, but I can't do the same kind of athletic moves with my GTS. So if you park in a bike rack or on the sidewalk somewhere and need to get it out around obstacles (or even in your garage), the 150cc scooters are the way to go.

I truly think the 150s are the sweet spot. That's coming from someone riding a 250 every day.
 
I had a 150cc GY6 before. The 150 will get the job done, but I found it a little under powered. Moving to the GTS 300 was like moving to a Corvette. It really enhanced the experience. Even though I normally ride it at 1/4 throttle, I just like having the extra power when I want it. ;-)
 
Around here 55 means 65-70, you're square in Xmax/Burgman territory.

My wife's Kymco 150 will go >65, probably close to 70. It's got nearly 14 hp. Honda's 150-160cc CVT scooters these days have >15 hp and would all easily do 65 mph. All of Kymco's 150cc class EFI scooters will too. But the prior generation Kymco 200s are actually 170ish ccs and have less hp than their current 150s.

Vespa's 150s these days have around 11 hp or so IIRC. A Sprint or Primavera will probably get up to 60 but not much past it. Still, it's not like you HAVE to ride with traffic if you just have a little bit of 55mph highway. I rode my Stellauto a lot on 55mph speed limit roads. Just pin the throttle and stay in the right lane.

My GTS has like 26 hp. Different story. I'll probably go close to 85. I've never had mine over 70, and 70 only on a local 65mph highway just to see if it'd crack 65. Just like a modern commuter type car, a 250-350cc class scooter accelerates pretty poorly. My GTS will get up to 30mph nearly instantly but 30-60 takes probably another 10 seconds. Point is, around here in the suburbs, a road posted at 55 or 60 mph limits has enough traffic lights that most regular cars and my GTS too will not have enough space to get up over 55 before hitting a red light unless you just get very lucky on traffic light timing. Just saying, don't get all wound up about top speed of the scooter being enough to cruise long distances at highway speeds unless you intend to do that with your scooter. My Bonneville will hit that speed limit before shifting out of first gear but I never ride it that way. You'd get killed in a hurry in suburban traffic riding like a hooligan. I can keep up with suburban highway traffic on any of our scooters on posted-60 roads, even the one that'll top out at 53. But on the 53mph scooter I'm looking for an alternate route if I ride more than about a half mile in a straight line on the highway without a stop light. But I wouldn't hesitate to ride from Cedar Park to Marble Falls all the way down mile after mile of 55mph 1431 with me on my 53mph Stellauto and my wife on her Kymco. I would ride all the way to Llano without any hesitation on the Kymco and my Vespa even with a big stretch of 70mph posted US 29 in there which would require the Kymco to sustain WOT. mrs72 won't do that, though. She gets quite nervy if you go faster than about 45.

Besides storage space and riding/seating position (comfort), I can't really see many advantages of a Burgman over a DR400Z. By the time you've put a few k miles on any manual transmission motorcycle, the shifting becomes pretty automatic and other than start and stop traffic or if you have an injury, the clutch is no bother. And a DR-Z is much more nimble than a massive Burgman. That thing is like a very small car. Vespa's GTS are built a lot differently and behave much more like a regular small scooter.
 
I picked up a KTM 500, so the DRZ kind of sits. I need to sell it or do something with it. I like trades because it keeps as much money out of the tax man's pockets as possible so I'm tossing some ideas around. Something with storage to make short runs to the grocery store that's easy to reach the ground seems like it might be appealing and something new and fun to try.

I have several miles of 2 lane 55mph roads to get anywhere. This area is growing and more lanes and stop lights are welcome and coming, but at a snail's pace it seems. We were supposed to get extra lanes several years ago, but they are telling us it'll be maybe 2027 before they even start construction. The neighborhoods are being built as fast as they can throw them up, and that means we now have a lot of people on the roads in a hurry and frustrated with anyone who gets in their way. I certainly don't want to be that guy on a scooter with an impatient F350 behind me.
 
Read the hp numbers. If I had several miles of 2-lane 55mph highway with little traffic I'd probably opt for my Vespa GTS, or buy a 20+hp scooter if I didn't have one. You're never going to catch me on a rolling La-z-boy Burgman ;)
 
Curious, do you find you tend to do less ATGATT with the scooters? That would seem to me to be the challenge - thinking it's just a short ride and I won't be going that fast. Do you enhance the lighting on your scooters? I almost got permanently wiped out by a lady who didn't see me and caught me with her left front turning into me. I was probably doing 35, with extra headlights on a Yamaha FZ6, wearing a neon yellow armored jacket. Remember, they're trying to kill you until they prove otherwise.
 
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