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Chain theory

Scorch

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Note: I searched for a general purpose chain thread but did not find anything newer than 2013.

Ok, I am not a chain expert I just have thoughts. Feel free to disagree with me :) I'm still trying to complete my understanding of chains and chain lubricants.

My personal MC history had me running a 1991 Suzook GS1100G and 1985 Madura 1200 all through the 90s and up until 2008, when I bought my V-Strom 650. So, I was really, really spoiled when it came to drivetrain maint. :trust: Both of those machines used a pain-free shaft drive.

The Strom was great, may fav bike of all time (until I got my 2018 V-Strom 1000). But I so hate messing with the chain and sprockets, it's annoying and expensive. Arghh, ok, alright... calming down....

My 650 accumulated 70,000 miles before I sold it, and I tried all kinds of chains and chain lubricants. I'll post my main log, faster than trying to explain.

650maint.JPG

Last chain was
FRONT SPROCKET SIZE 16 Tooth w/ Rubber Dampener - $2.00
REAR SPROCKET SIZE 47 Tooth - Stock Size
DID 525VX - NATURAL X'ring


I wish I had kept better notes on exactly what chain, and how I oiled it, how often, etc. But as I think back, I recall trying several approaches.

  • PJ1 lube every 500 miles
  • No lube, after all it is an X ring chain and lube isn't going to do anything on the exterior ( a recent FortNine video reinforces that)
  • Replacing the chain only when it reach the limits
  • Replacing the sprockets and chain when the sprockets clearly needed replacing.
  • Replacing the X-ring chain when it was reaching the limits with a non-X-ring cheap chain because the sprockets only had one chain session of wear, so pop on a short term chain to complete the sprocket life cycle...
I know some people suggest replacing all three every time one wears out, man, that negates any and all costs saving from fuel milage. I know that's not the reason I ride, to get good fuel $$, but it stings to spend $300 every 15,000 miles (in addition to tires).

I usually kept the chain adjusted regularly...some guys have suggested keeping the chain too tight, at the specified min tension, could accelerate wear. Vs-Strom Tom swears he gets 50,000 miles on a chain by keeping it loose... anybody try that?

As for lubing the chain... that's like an oil thread, I can say I have to set views on what is best. Actually it would be more accurate to say I have gone through my life very fuzzy on what lubrication a chain should get, somewhere between superstition and voodoo black magic. All I know for sure is, my bike has 12,000 miles on the OEM chain and two tick marks left on the adjusters so something has to happen.
 
My understanding is as follows:

Loose is much better than tight in the adjustment front.

Lube is better than no lube, but not if you're getting a ton of grit sticking to it.

Front sprockets wear the fastest. Probably 2 of those per chain.

Rear sprockets last the longest. Might be able to outlast a chain, but...

Don't put a new chain on old sprockets. Supposedly causes faster chain wear until the surfaces lap each other to fit.



Some of this is experience, some of it is advice gathered from many sources. It's what I will with. Ymmv.
 
Iv always changed the sprockets with the new chain but honestly never paid any attention to how long anything lasts or when it was changed.
My bike is for enjoyment and to a degree it does not matter what it costs.
A friend was saying he put a new chain made by BMW on his Africa twin. They claim its a life time chain???? I dont know how that could be and what about the sprockets?? Anyway the bigest advantage to a chain and sprocket system is the 65# weight savings. Off road and dirt road that is a significant advantage over shaft drive.
 
Haha, but I'm poor so every $ counts. I understand how weight is important but I can happily handle that for the ease of maintenance. If I was trying to get the track record maybe it would be an issue.
 
Haha, but I'm poor so every $ counts. I understand how weight is important but I can happily handle that for the ease of maintenance. If I was trying to get the track record maybe it would be an issue.
I own a Tenere for one reason. Low maintenence. Its shaft drive and 26k mile valve checks. I just like the idea of a lighter bike when camping off of one where im adding the 50 -60# of gear. I currently have a wr450f but also looking at a T700.
 
With my 1k Strom I never lubed the chain except when I felt bad for it which no joke was probably once or maybe twice in the life of a chain. Without fail I would get 13-14k out of a set.

Buddies of mine would get the same mileage out of theirs but they would clean and lube them all the time.

We just changed the factory chain and sprockets on my Wife’s Versys 650 this weekend. It is sitting as just over 20k miles. That chain has never been lubed.
 
I've always had the notion that putting a larger chain on should increase service life. A small engine just does not stress a chain as much as a liter bike does. There is some loss of power and efficiency though.
But seeing how some folks are getting up to 20k, that's plenty.

And now I don't have a bike that uses a chain so I've no dog in this show.
 
I own a Tenere for one reason. Low maintenence. Its shaft drive and 26k mile valve checks. I just like the idea of a lighter bike when camping off of one where im adding the 50 -60# of gear. I currently have a wr450f but also looking at a T700.
Hmmm? Seems like more than one reason??? 🤣
 
Dunno.... I always got 45K plus miles out of my chains. Tried chain wax once - never again. Tried PJ1 once - never again. Gear oil works but it was too slow for the Loob-man delivery system. Finally settled on a 2:1 mix of transmission fluid to WD40. Consistent results over the course of 150,000 miles plus.
 
With my 1k Strom I never lubed the chain except when I felt bad for it which no joke was probably once or maybe twice in the life of a chain. Without fail I would get 13-14k out of a set.

Buddies of mine would get the same mileage out of theirs but they would clean and lube them all the time.

We just changed the factory chain and sprockets on my Wife’s Versys 650 this weekend. It is sitting as just over 20k miles. That chain has never been lubed.
I see we come from the same theory of chain maintenance. I remember getting a little over 20K on my FZ1 before I moved over to the shaft driven FJR. I don't think I ever lubed that chain. After all, the lube is inside the seals which you can't access, so all you do is protect the outside from surface rust, which doesn't really contribute to wear. Lots of folks still maintain chain lube regimens from the history of antiquated chain technology.

Still, I do like you, clean and lube when I start to feel guilty. :D
 
Don't put a new chain on old sprockets.
What he said.

Chain wear (incorrectly referred to stretch by some) amounts to a slight increase in the link center distance (pitch). As the pitch increases the sprockets wear to match. This happens slowly over time and is mostly undetectable. All is well until the teeth begin to be visibly reduced. If you put a new chain on worn sprockets the pitch is off and the load is not shared by all the links. This reverses the wear process with the new chain now wearing very quickly to match the already worn sprockets.
 
I've always oiled my chains fairly frequently but never kept a chain driven bike long enough to have any meaningful data points. I do have a chain oiler on the CB500X though.

That said, I know if I run the chains on the round baler dry (they're supposed to be oiled every 10 hours) then the temperature of the sprocket jumps almost 100 degrees which can't be good for the bearing behind it or the life of the system as a whole. I measured it at 220F when I forgot to oil the chain and normally it runs around 125-130F. Oiling it also quitened down the balers "drivetrain." This is an old school style chain and has more friction in it but some friction is probably still generated by the interface between the sprockets and chain. It'd be interesting to repeat this experiment with a motorcycle drivetrain.
 
I clean mine a lot to keep the dirt off, lube it if it gets wet. Normally I try to run RK chains because I like them. I always change all three, chain, front and rear sprockets. I hate dirty chains and rusty chains. I have passed on buying bikes because of the chain.
 
Chain life is about the same for me, it doesn't matter if I take care of them or not, About 12k miles give or take a little. It has been this way for 20 years and I have come to accept it. The last one on my Triumph lasted a bit over 15k and I didn't lube it once the entire time I've owned it. Just cleaned with WD40 and a rag occasionally. I now buy the new chain and sprockets and set of tires and keep them in the garage so I have them when needed to avoid downtime waiting on orders.
 
since I started using bar oil on my bike chains I haven’t replaced one . Over 40,000 on my 950 KTM , never cleaned , oiled every 500 miles at least , sprockets and chain are a set and have been together their entire life , and 45% of that was off road . when I used over the counter chain lube 30,000 was the best I ever got . The drive line on my only shaft drive bike got replaced at 28,000 . If you think chain and sprocket sets are high try replacing a drive shaft and I did the work , dealer wanted over a thousand and the failure was their fault to start with . I’ve known people to get over 80,000 with oilers . Forgot to add , I’m still using oil from a gallon bottle of bar oil I bought 30 years ago for 8 bucks
 
Scorch, while opinions are helpful, always go to the source:

Yes, you are right. I have been reviewing a lot of videos lately, to get a sense of what's out there and what the overall theory is.
https://www.renthal.com/road/chain/r4-road-chain They advertise their road chain as "pre-stretched, requires no adjustments".



since I started using bar oil on my bike chains I haven’t replaced one . Over 40,000 on my 950 KTM , never cleaned , oiled every 500 miles at least , sprockets and chain are a set and have been together their entire life , and 45% of that was off road . when I used over the counter chain lube 30,000 was the best I ever got . The drive line on my only shaft drive bike got replaced at 28,000 . If you think chain and sprocket sets are high try replacing a drive shaft and I did the work , dealer wanted over a thousand and the failure was their fault to start with . I’ve known people to get over 80,000 with oilers . Forgot to add , I’m still using oil from a gallon bottle of bar oil I bought 30 years ago for 8 bucks

Bar oil, eh? It works for chain saws, right? Man, if I could get 30,000 miles, that would be amazing. How do you apply it? It's not a spray right?
 
I just dribble it on the inside of the chain while spinning the back wheel . It makes a mess of the back of the bike but I seldom wash a bike anyway and I’m much happier with the mess than a trashed chain and sprockets and it’s way less of a mess than a chain oiler makes . But I’d be perfectly happy with that mess too for double the chain life I’m getting right now . Probly the most maintaince I’ve done in the last 10 years is mounting tires , that can be more frequent than oil changes . I do clean the back wheel every time I mount a new tire .
 
Ok, I can't argue with your results, but I have to admit, I do not understand how chain lube makes its way past the O-rings.
 
Ok, I can't argue with your results, but I have to admit, I do not understand how chain lube makes its way past the O-rings.
I think there is something to be said for a cooler running chain and sprocket set. With the bar oil or the oilier, it is pretty much always wet so that can really help in keeping the heat down. For most of us that use some form of dry lube or something else similar I'd make the case that we are just doing it to make ourselves feel good about the whole process. :lol2:
 
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