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Do track days make better riders?

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Rainmaker

Rainmaker

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Erik
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Anyone that has ever met someone that works or volunteers for one of the companies that do track days knows that the conversation always goes to the “Hey! You should come do one!” . I have been hit up at least 3 times in the last couple of months. I always decline and politely let them know I have no desire to race. I then hear it’s not for racing it’s for becoming a better rider. By better rider I can only assume they mean a faster rider which in my opinion doesn’t necessarily equate to “better” . I do not doubt that they can ride faster than me on the track but I ride on the street where there are cars, dogs, pot holes, road debris and a speed limit. In addition to that when I’m on the bike I'm usually not in a real big hurry, enjoy my current pace, and can ride comfortably with my group of friends. So, why would I need a track day. Does it really make you a better street rider?
 
Track days made me a better street rider. In fact I actually slowed down a little on the street.
The great thing about a track day is, of you do one that include instruction, they help you with technique: body position, corner set up, braking, throttle, lean angle, etc....
Then you get to work on all these things that make you a better rider in a "clean" environment. No cars, no road debris, no incoming vehicles, no cross streets, to animals or pedestrians, and everyone is going the same direction. When you remove all the other distractions you can really focus on technique.
 
There's a lot to learn and a lot of the track day instruction classes will teach you skills that apply outside the track.

The big deal about the track is you can learn and apply these in a known environment without the inherent dangers present on the roadway.

In addition to skills you also gain confidence. Confidence in yourself and your bike. I never ride on the street to the level I do on the track. However, within about a week my first trackday applied itself. I was out riding with some friends and went into a corner and immediately got that "I'm in too hot" feeling. My brain started to send signals to my hand to roll off, which is exactly the wrong thing to do but somehow it's a stupid instinct to do so. All of a sudden a voice in my head said "Dude, you were faster than this on the track on some corners. Roll it on and lean it in." I did and survived to ride another day.

Knowing that I'd pushed harder on the track helped me through that situation. That in addition to working out some bad habits and creating new ones helped me to be a better rider.

Nowadays, when I get a new bike, one of the first things I want to do is take it to the track. Get me some time to really get to know the bike and build that confidence in what it can and can't do. I've had the FJR for just over a year now and with my around town riding I don't get much chance to push it over, but I have a free trackday coming to me thanks to cornerworking two weeks ago and I'll be scheduling the date soon.

Just because you aren't interested in racing doesn't mean you can't learn stuff that will apply outside the track. Also, once you go, you'll be hooked. You don't have to race to enjoy hitting the track every once in a while. That's kind of like saying that all guys who ride dirt bikes like to race motocross. Not even close. :D
 
poser said:
In fact I actually slowed down a little on the street.
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That is surprising to hear. I have never done a track day which is why I am asking. My first thought would be the average person would feel more comfortable on the bike and would be more likely to take the same risk you took at the track on the street. I have only been to two track days and I believe there were 4-6wrecks. I would think the percentage would go up when these guys got on the street.

poser said:
Then you get to work on all these things that make you a better rider in a "clean" environment. No cars, no road debris, no incoming vehicles, no cross streets, to animals or pedestrians, and everyone is going the same direction. When you remove all the other distractions you can really focus on technique.
Click to expand...

I do understand the value of good instruction there is no question about that but my first thought is “train like you fight”. I learn all these techniques on a maintained closed course with new tires, no passing and racing leathers on then I head to the road where I don’t have any of that.


Although driving my buddies Vette around COTA would be fun you would have a hard time convincing me it will make me a better driver on the street.
cota.jpg
 
The answer to your question might come in the form of a question. What do you want out of it?

There are several forums where people in pictures are criticized because they aren't "hanging off" or touching knees. Well, that isn't the best idea on the streets.

Out of position to change direction, out of position for operating controls, out of,,,,,,,,,,,,well you get the idea.

Learning to ride the limits of your machine, yes it is a good thing. Confidence in the ability to go farther, well maybe. Dodging a blue hair in a Buik, not so much.

Lots of things keep you alive. A good ERC or a class like Total Control, or Ride Like a Pro may be more practical for being a "Better Rider" than track days.

Cheers
 
Its on my list of future instruction. I think learning how to push your machine beyond its limit and still control it is critical for motorcycles. Not so much for cars. I think it would make you a safer rider as you know would learn how to handle loss of traction, avoidance, and heavy braking that is rarely used in the real world except for when it counts.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
LostinTexas said:
Learning to ride the limits of your machine, yes it is a good thing.
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I have accepted the fact that I will probably never ride my bike to its full potential. Heck, I am not even sure I would want too.

LostinTexas said:
Lots of things keep you alive. A good ERC or a class like Total Control, or Ride Like a Pro may be more practical for being a "Better Rider" than track days.
Click to expand...
:thumb:
 
Yes........

Having observed dozens of type AAA, adrenaline junkie, young invincible riders before and after getting into track days..
My personal opinion... Yes it makes better street riders.

Many points above I agree with..

They do tend to slow down on the street, but that is not a universal observation... They all take the track lessons back to the street. All do that, but some take the speed as well.
 
Rainmaker said:
That is surprising to hear. I have never done a track day which is why I am asking. My first thought would be the average person would feel more comfortable on the bike and would be more likely to take the same risk you took at the track on the street.
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This is going to depend on the person. For me, riding on the track and then coming back to the street is a stark contrast in what you know. On the track, you just rode this corner two minutes ago. Likely it's not changed much (though somebody could have imploded their motor and dumped oil) but you know that a farm truck didn't pull out and drag gravel onto the road or something. You don't know this on a corner you haven't ridden in a week. For me I ride on the street way below what I do on the track because of all the unknowns. Some folks don't care and just go out and ride hard.

Rainmaker said:
I have only been to two track days and I believe there were 4-6wrecks. I would think the percentage would go up when these guys got on the street.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of reasons for this. First off, any time folks are getting out and pushing their machines, they are going to crash. Go with the same number of folks to Arkansas and you are going to see crashes. I was up there with the FZ1 group and the ZREX group was up there at the same time. I think between the two groups we had four or five guys go down with one having to be airlifted (who also is a member here) so that was a bad day. To contrast, I've been to track days where there were no crashes. Mine that I cornerworked two weeks ago there were two. Both were in the A group which is the racing guys. Those guys are pushing their machines to the limit and if you want to go that far, then crashing is inevitable. Nobody says you have to go that far.

I have seen crashes in the lower groups as well though. I would say that most of these involve rider error. Usually riding over their heads, not listening to instructors, etc. Some of it is just plain stupid stuff. I did a trackday in February that was darn cold so tires were cold, etc. A guy crashed and we all went into the hot pit to wait for the crash truck to clear it. We sat for maybe 20 minutes and by that time our tires were dead cold. Instructors reminded us about that fact and out we went. Pulling out at TWS you bypass turn 1 and go right into turn 2. The guy on the GSX-R1000 in front of me wound up the gas to haul through the turn and his cold tires and cold pavement didn't like all that power and down he went. I managed to not use much gas and went through the turn no problem. I've also seen guys lose focus and ride off the edge of a straight piece of track.

Again, it comes down a lot to personality of the guy in control of the bike. If you can keep your head, understand that you are there to learn and not whoop everybody's butt, apply the lessons being taught, and work on improving then I'd say that you stand a very low chance of wrecking. Not everyone can do that and some head out there thinking they are Rossi and know it all and the track will bite you just the same as a public roadway if you are that type of person.
 
I would like to offer 2 Anecdotes;

#1 If all you have in your toolbox is a screwdriver, you will only be able to screw/unscrew, pry and possibly scrape things. On the other hand, add a 1/2" wrench you can now also tighten loosen 1/2" nuts/bolts. Add a crescent wrench you can do MOST nuts/bolts. Add a Fluke meter
, now you can do electronic/electrical,,,
The more tools you have in your box, the higher the likelihood that you have the correct tool for the job.
So in a word, yes, Trackdays do make you a better Rider IF YOU LEARN FROM THEM.

#2 to paraphrase Kieth Code in "Twist of the Wrist"
"If you had $1.00 worth of attention(traction) and were using $.75 to survive on the street, that would leave you only $.25 to learn with.
If however, the road was free of traffic and hazards and had great traction on a closed loop, you could devote $.25 to survival etc and devote $.75 to learning.

Never on the street can you SAFELY approach the stop/turning limits of your bike or yourself. However on the track you can. That extra confidence or experience might make all the difference in a panic situation

SRAD
 
I've done two seasons of track riding and moved from slowest guy on the track to the slowest guy in the intermediate group. :)

I definitely think it makes you a better street rider. For one thing, you learn a LOT about managing traction. On the street, I now typically trail brake all the time without thinking about it, because my brain has gotten used to the idea of braking hard while upright but tapering off as you approach corner apex. That skill alone has increased my safety margin on the street. I can brake more than someone without that skill when the road isn't straight. I'm also much more comfortable leaning the bike over--when you're dragging your pegs through the corners on the track, the street doesn't feel as scary when you're keeping lean angles sane.

But the most important skill I've learned has to do with my vision and how I mentally process things. Track riding teaches you to find your tip-in point, then when you know you're going to hit it find the apex, then when you know you're going to hit that find your drive-out point. It makes you look further ahead in a stressful situation until it becomes second nature.

Track riding also makes you deal with those stressful situations. If you're going to learn how to handle going too hot into a corner, would you rather do it in a 10 foot wide lane with oncoming traffic, or a 40 foot wide track with everybody going the same direction? The situation is really the same--learning to keep leaning the motorcycle, or lean it more when you're scared, but the stakes are much lower on the track. Do it a few times there and corners that suddenly tighten up or that you went into too hot don't scare you on the street.
 
I also had no - zero - interest in racing. At ~ 50 years old, I neither bounce nor heal well.

Riding my street bike at track days has absolutely, definitely made me a better - safer - street rider.

I ride slower on the street - because I have experienced the thrill-of-faster on the track. And have the sense to keep it there.

I ride safer on the street - because I have better skills (braking, cornering, throttle control, etc) -AND- because I trust the bike more (and trust that it's lmits are well above what I thought).

Figure it this way - with less skill, you are capable of taking a turn at maybe 60 MPH, but with more skill you could take it at 80 MPH. When street riding at 50 MPH, the less-skilled rider is riding at 83% of ability - only 17% in reserve. The more skilled rider is riding at only 63% of their ability - they have 37% in reserve "capacity." That is over twice the reserve - safety margin.

Finally, I ride more comfortably on the street, and can devote more attention to street-stuff (oncoming traffic, dogs, oil spills, whatever) because i am able to devote less attention to the basics / mechanics of riding / operating the bike. The ride is more fun.

Yes, there are crashes at track days. My experience is that they are mostly in the level 2 groups - the level 1 guys (beginners) are tightly controlled and many are nervous, theny KNOW they are slow, and so they crash less. The level 3 guys (experts) are seriously skilled and fast, and experienced enough that crashes are pretty rare (but often spectacular when they occur!). The guys in the middle - Level 2 - include the street squids who THINK they deserve to be in Level 3, and the guys who just moved up from Level 1 and are pushing too hard to keep up. So, again - I have seen the most crashes in Level 2.

Summary: There is no - zero - downside / disadvantage to track days. The upsides are real. Knowledge, skill, confidence.
 
Riding track made me want to stop riding street all together

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 
Rainmaker said:
... the average person would feel more comfortable on the bike and would be more likely to take the same risk you took at the track on the street.
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This could be true to an extent. But knowing traffic is flowing your direction and there is ample runoff if you have to straighten up brings the fun up, where street riding gets you none of this can take a lot of fun out of riding hard on public roads.

The reminder for myself though, is for less than the cost of a speeding ticket I can ride all day long, as fast as I want.

Thanks for the reminder. It's time to book another track day.
 
Rainmaker said:
I have accepted the fact that I will probably never ride my bike to its full potential. Heck, I am not even sure I would want too.

:thumb:
Click to expand...

I am like you, unlikely to ever discover the real limits of my machine, not sure I would enjoy doing so.
However, I have learned a lot from the trackdays I have done.
I have learned I can do more than I thought I could, and do it safely.
I have learned that many people come to the end of their skills suddenly and then panic, when they should relax and go with it. This is especially important to know when riding with others.
I have learned that I need to practice basic skills and handling exercises on every bike I own, at least once every year, preferably more.
And I have learned/been reminded that after 34 years of riding, in several countries and lots of different terrain I still don't know it all, and I should keep that in mind every time I get in the saddle.
In short I have learned practical skills, life-saving thinking, and some humility, which I highly recommend to all riders.

Kiwi
 
Rainmaker said:
I am for sure out now! I don't need any thing else that cost money! :lol2:
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I can't offer much assistance here. However, most organizations are in need of corner workers and don't have the $$$ to really shell out to pay them. They usually will offer up a free track day for a day spent working a corner.

Working a corner will give you a good inside view of the organization you are riding with, a good view of what goes on on the track, and a healthy respect for those out there watching over you while you are riding.

Sure, it costs you an extra day off here and there but you then get to ride for free. Can't really beat that, and it helps the old addiction.

Go try one, I dare you. :trust:
 
I think anything you do to understand the physics of the motorcycle better and how your interaction on it affects the bike is an exercise that is worthwhile. I believe this to be true whether you regularly apply it or not.

While you may not use the skills you learn on the track on the street they could save your life someday.
 
Get a copy of Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II. You can read I, but it is more focused on racing. II is more about cornering and your instinctive survival reaction and how they are the WRONG thing to do. Read that book before you go to a track day and you will get a LOT out of a trackday. It made me a much smoother and more confident rider, and that was after having ridden over 30K miles on the street without any incidents. Like many others have said, it also made me slow down on the street and not push the limits like I had been doing. I did the corner work thing to earn a track day. I think that is actually a good thing because it lets you observe how things work and is just one less thing for you to worry about when you actually get there to ride. Racing is NOT allowed at the trackday in the C groups. In fact, you are only allowed to pass on a straight and are supposed to maintain a LARGE cushion between you and other riders. NO passing in corners. Money well spent :thumb:
 
I know you're going to laugh Erik (because you laugh at me for much less) but I think track days on the Strom made me a better rider. Whether or not the same will apply to you is uncertain.

I was a rider that didn't "trust" my bike, my tires, or my abilities. Track days were a way of removing all the other stuff (the cliff, the dogs, the gravel, the "are they waiting for me at the next turn?", etc.) and just work on the riding. I learned that I could - and can - lean my bike over and that whole "centrifical force" thing really will kick in and keep me from falling over. I learned to position my body in such a way that I didn't have to work on pushing or pulling the bars, they went with me when I went that way. I learned to relax and loosen my grip on the bike. I also learned when not to let off the gas.

Granted, it has been a few years and my anxiety has gotten a little out of control, so I've lost most of what I learned. Do I wish I could lose the fear factor and go out there and do it again? Yup. Without a doubt.

You will be hooked though, so you better hope that fine woman of yours is willing to work a lot of corners so you can keep riding more track days... :trust: :deal:
 
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