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E-" bicycle"

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X1Glider said:
No one is being displaced. They are choosing to go elsewhere or stop on their own. No one else is forcing them out but themselves.
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Same thing happened to us up at Red River 10 years ago. The side by side craze was hitting full steam and we chose to displace ourselves. Years later we realized we were being stupid and only hurting ourselves so we went back. Now we just stay to areas less frequented by the side by sides and life is all good.

I think the only difference here is that we were willing to see that we were being silly and someone else on here is going to die on that hill and only affect himself. But…… moral high ground darn it!🤣
 
DFW_Warrior said:
Same thing happened to us up at Red River 10 years ago. The side by side craze was hitting full steam and we chose to displace ourselves. Years later we realized we were being stupid and only hurting ourselves so we went back. Now we just stay to areas less frequented by the side by sides and life is all good.

I think the only difference here is that we were willing to see that we were being silly and someone else on here is going to die on that hill and only affect himself. But…… moral high ground darn it!🤣
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I used to like to ride in Milano when they had a dirt bike ranch there. Certain trails were designated "2 wheels ONLY" but the 4 wheeler morons just ignored the signs and severely wallowed out those trails. I was with a group one weekend and there were some 4 wheelers on one of the narrowest trails out there bottle necking the trail. I got off and grabbed the last person in their group off their bike and tossed his 4 wheeler down the side of the hill. Then the rest of my group joined in and did it to the rest of their group. There were 7 4 wheelers tumbled down that hill, lots of screaming and threatening but not a fist flown surprisingly, but a throwdown was what I was all for that day. They could see we were ready for a rumble and knew how that was going to end.

Eventually, the place shut down. We 2 wheelers got tired of the 4 wheel group and never came back. It wasn't enough to keep the place open. So, our leaving made everyone lose a riding venue and that benefited no one.

A couple weeks ago, coming from a Houston symphony show downtown, the wife and I stopped in Memorial park to see all the changes they made with their conservancy project. In the 90s, there was 17 miles of MTB trails, much of it challenging. Now there is about 8 miles and is pretty much family friendly, shared with walkers and some equestrian. The good stuff was permanently closed off and is overgrown. They started closing off the good stuff and making the trails family friendly around 2000 and small children on their 12" wheeled bikes were now on many of the interconnects. It became overcrowded. Me never going back was not a bad thing. Sometimes, leaving must be done. I'm glad places like Bluff Creek Ranch in Warda is still around after all these years. I don't even want to ride in Austin anymore. Too many hikers and hanginger-outers on the trails now.
 
X1Glider said:
No one is being displaced. They are choosing to go elsewhere or stop on their own. No one else is forcing them out but themselves.
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Right. Adding a large number of trail users who don't follow the same kind of inherent rules as the prior users has no impact at all on availability of limited trail resources.

Let's open up your favorite singletrack motorcycle trails to Jeeps, then. No impact, right? I mean, they may be capable of behaving precisely like a 250 lb motorcycle if they aggressively self-police, but of course if they wanted to do that, they'd ride a motorcycle there.

Or let's take your favorite road motorcycle route, say the three sisters, and route all 18 wheeler truck traffic onto those roads instead of the ordinary highways. You think that'll have any effect on the existing users? Of course not! If you choose no to go ride there anymore, that's on you, because you're a big insensitive jerk and elitist two-wheeler snob that you refuse to share the public road with other users.
 
X1Glider said:
The problem I have with airing down tires is that it requires more effort to move. Ever had to push your MC off the road when you had a flat? With suspension, you get bump absorption and rolling efficiency. And tires that don't squirm from being underinflated are more stable when cornering and don't risk pinch flats.
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But remember...we're talking about e-bikes. I'm a pedal assist guy, and even at 73 the pedal assist motor on my Trek made all the difference in my ability to continue to ride actual, rough, MTB or dirt motor trails. The tire drag because of size and inflation isn't the issue it used to be. A few years ago I never would have thought I'd be riding 2.6/19 tires on my MTB at my age. The e-mtb allows you to do that. The tires have gotten so much better too. A big tire at low inflation doesn't have the squirm of the "old days", at least inflation within reason.

But I am totally with you on the suspension. A lot of the stuff we have these days rivals dirt motor stuff to some degree. Another benefit of the e-mtb is that you can have lots of quality suspension, bigger tires, and not suffer "as much" as it would cause on a pedal-only MTB. This is another factor that has kept me riding because my 73 year old muscles and bones don't get the beating they used to get on the older pedal-only bikes.

Now I'm obviously talking more about e-mtb's here, but a lot of it can apply to the more generic forms of e-bikes.
 
mr72 said:
Right. Adding a large number of trail users who don't follow the same kind of inherent rules as the prior users has no impact at all on availability of limited trail resources.

Let's open up your favorite singletrack motorcycle trails to Jeeps, then. No impact, right? I mean, they may be capable of behaving precisely like a 250 lb motorcycle if they aggressively self-police, but of course if they wanted to do that, they'd ride a motorcycle there.

Or let's take your favorite road motorcycle route, say the three sisters, and route all 18 wheeler truck traffic onto those roads instead of the ordinary highways. You think that'll have any effect on the existing users? Of course not! If you choose no to go ride there anymore, that's on you, because you're a big insensitive jerk and elitist two-wheeler snob that you refuse to share the public road with other users.
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You can say the same thing about what happened when cars started mixing with hose and carriages. Time marches on and things change. Roads got paved. Trails were cut in nature preserves, now allowing humans in when none ever used to be there. As for trucks on MC roads, been happening for 30 years at least. Jeeps on a MC, trail, well that's just ridiculous. But 4 wheelers and SxSs have already been doing the damage for 30 years as well. The difference is a SxS is much wider and trees must be cleared for passage. Not the case for an eMTB. They're physicall they same size as a regular bike.

You can't seem to get past that not all e-bikes are the same as those full electric LA style bikes. A class 1 assisted e-bike isn't hurting any current purist MTBer on the trail. It isn't generating enough power to break the tire loose and tear up the trails. People get old, get injured, get a disease, and aren't as fit as they were at half their age. Them getting a little help up a hill isn't hurting you in the least and is no reason they should now stop riding there because you're still able. If you stop to catch your breath and another rider comes along and rides by, do they have the right to tell you scornfully that you need to go somewhere else because you're not as fit as they are? What if you're not as fast? Can they tell you, you don't belong there and only they should be there? Go home and sell your bike.

Also, I challenge you to show me any documentation, rules or signage that states that the only users allowed on a trail system are hardcore purists training for races. Show me where any trail system is designated as a training zone only for hard core purists or is designated as a race course. AFAIK, trails are for riding on by anyone with 2 wheels and pedals that go round and round. There's nothing anywhere that states that the trails are for a certain purpose like riding hard and fast and only people of a high level of fitness are allowed on it. Only people training for a race are allowed on it. Or this trail is a designated race trail and others have to stay off it. Prove me wrong. Feelings don't count nor do unwritten understandings.

We live in a world that has tripled in population in just 50 years. So, yeah, there's more people everywhere all around you, like it or not. You're only hurting yourself by trying to avoid them. Eventually you won't be able to leave the house.

There's an old philosophy in that no one is able to hurt me. Only I can allow myself to be hurt. You're allowing yourself to be harmed in this case and only you have the power to change that.
 
TNC said:
But remember...we're talking about e-bikes. I'm a pedal assist guy, and even at 73 the pedal assist motor on my Trek made all the difference in my ability to continue to ride actual, rough, MTB or dirt motor trails. The tire drag because of size and inflation isn't the issue it used to be. A few years ago I never would have thought I'd be riding 2.6/19 tires on my MTB at my age. The e-mtb allows you to do that. The tires have gotten so much better too. A big tire at low inflation doesn't have the squirm of the "old days", at least inflation within reason.

But I am totally with you on the suspension. A lot of the stuff we have these days rivals dirt motor stuff to some degree. Another benefit of the e-mtb is that you can have lots of quality suspension, bigger tires, and not suffer "as much" as it would cause on a pedal-only MTB. This is another factor that has kept me riding because my 73 year old muscles and bones don't get the beating they used to get on the older pedal-only bikes.

Now I'm obviously talking more about e-mtb's here, but a lot of it can apply to the more generic forms of e-bikes.
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I was replying to David regarding his fat tire hardtail.
 
X1Glider said:
Not the case for an eMTB. They're physicall they same size as a regular bike.
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They're not, though. The bikes are heavier, a lot heavier. And I suspect the riders are heavier on average. Not only that, but they are able to go faster on the trail, and speed + mass is what causes destruction of the trail surface, at the very least widening and increasing ruts. It requires trail builders to build larger radius turns, banks, remove trees where the passage is too narrow for the heavier, faster vehicle to go without hitting the tree, etc.

X1Glider said:
People get old, get injured, get a disease, and aren't as fit as they were at half their age.
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Right, and in ye olden days, they quit riding, and therefore that population of users aged out of the activity, no longer were on the trail. Now the barrier to entry as a mountain biker has been all but removed, or at least replaced with $$ instead of fitness and skill, so more people are using the same piece of fixed real estate. If you simply refuse to understand this, I don't know how I can make it any more clear.

People who are unfit or infirm enough that they can't ride on a traditional MTB would not be on the trail except for access to e-MTBs. So they are on the trail, where they wouldn't have been otherwise, therefore increasing crowding on the trail. And as it happens they are introducing a riding style that creates increased stress on the trail, because even if it is a user who is fit enough to be able to ride a regular bike, they will ride the e-bike faster and it's heavier so it will do more damage to the trail. And if a critical mass of people are this type of rider, then the trail system owners or operators will be pressured to create trails that cater to this crowd and we'll just lose the good old technical singletrack we used to have.

Since you're obviously in the aging-out population, I can see that you see this as a benefit to you. You want to see it as the trail systems are growing old with you. But for the 25 year old version of you, if that person exists today, they will never be able to enjoy the trail the way you did when you were 25. I see this as a significant loss, enough that now I will not be likely to return to mountain biking at all and I never would have even gotten started had it been motorized vehicles on all of the trails back in the 80s.
 
Public land is open to the public , not just the elite few that think its their own private playground . If you want a private place to ride and want to make all the rules go buy it and do what you want with it , public is shared with anybody that wants to share it . That includes atvs side by sides and jeeps . Deal with it or stay home . And tell me how a vehicle exerting 4 pounds per sq inch of ground pressure is doing more damage to the ground then one exerting twice or more pressure per sq inch . A skinny tire is going to be more destructive in all cases . I used to run a D 6 cat bulldozer that you would sink up to your knees trying to follow on foot . Its all about the pounds per square inch . and a bigger contact patch is always less destructive .
 
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Yep, PSI. A quick look at the Trek website shows an equivalently equipped e-version of a XC MTB is right around double the mass. 26-35 lbs for a regular full suspension 29er and 42-52 lbs for the e-version. Not a real big difference.
 
X1Glider said:
Yep, PSI. A quick look at the Trek website shows an equivalently equipped e-version of a XC MTB is right around double the mass. 26-35 lbs for a regular full suspension 29er and 42-52 lbs for the e-version. Not a real big difference.
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The amazing thing about e-mtb's is that the weight is unnoticeable when riding though you do notice it when you're loading or unloading the bike. In fact the added weight of a good e-mtb actually provides some stability on a rough trail as the bike doesn't get deflected as much.

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TNC said:
...when you're loading or unloading the bike.
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This is more important than I knew when I began e-bike shopping.

Mrs. Bennett is 62. She could not lift the e-bike I purchased for her on Craigslist into the back of her Toyota to go meet friends to ride.
 
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John Bennett said:
This is more important than I knew when I began e-bike shopping.

Mrs. Bennett is 62. She could not lift the e-bike I purchased for her on Craigslist into the back of her Toyota to go meet friends to ride.
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Definitely an issue, but there are solutions. One is using an actual hitch bike rack...gets the wheel trays closer to the ground...and...they make bike racks that do not require lifting the bike on to the wheel trays...probably seen similar dirt motorcycle rear racks where the bike rolls on. The hitch rack I have pictured here is simple, and there is technique over brute strength to load and remove the bike...though your wife and lots of women might still have trouble doing it.

For one, don't try to lift the whole bike on to the rack...this actually can apply to practically any bike...work smarter not harder so to speak. Position the bike next to the rack...lock the rear brake...pull back on the handlebar and stand the bike on the rear wheel like a wheelie...now balance the bike on the rear wheel...drop the front tire in its wheel tray and pull the locking arm on to the top of the tire...or use whatever design that holds the front wheel as it will likely work similarly...now with the bike held in place at the front wheel, lift the rear of the bike into its wheel tray...and lastly pull the front wheel locking arm to its final, designed, resting place and secure all straps.

Man, trying to load bikes into the backs of cars and SUV's can be a pain...not always related to weight as much as a bike can be unwieldy when trying to stuff one in a hole. An e-bike makes it even harder. Here's an example of that hitch design that let's you push the bike up instead of lifting. And please...no ogling the young lady doing the modeling. :lol2:https://hyperax.co/products/voltlif...MIu8j4m_f2jgMV_F1_AB1CrgeGEAQYBCABEgIM7vD_BwE

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My friend in Los Angeles says Moto-Cross Parks are making a come-back there, thanks to E-Bikes.

In the past, you had to build an MX track 80 miles out in the desert due to the noise.

He says today MX racing tracks are popping up all over Los Angeles because now they can exist in suburban areas like former skate parks and abandoned strip malls because they are quiet.

www.advrider.com

Zero's New Electric Budget Bikes Are Now Shipping Out To Customers - Adventure Rider

New value-oriented electric motorcycles are shipping worldwide from Zero, with the XE and XB now in customers' hands.
www.advrider.com www.advrider.com

"Zero’s big boss Sam Paschel said the new machines are “… the start of a new chapter in how adventure riding is experienced. With the XB and XE, we’re making electric motorcycles more accessible and approachable for riders everywhere.”"

 
I have a couple hitch carries I bought for the fat tire e bike but the best one is one I made , it has a slot for the tires to fit down in , park bike behind the carrier , lift the front tire in , it will hold the front end stable while you lift the bike tire in , strap the wheels and go , way more solid than the store boughts .

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Jackrabbit Bike It’s an e-bike. It looks like a small bicycle, but with no pedals. I got the Kickstarter one in 2020. Mine is the original 22lb model. They make more models now with a stronger frame, more power and dual batteries. It’s great to have in the RV, run around the campground or go to a store. It goes 20mph, gets about 10 miles on a charge.
 
Magooracing said:
Jackrabbit Bike It’s an e-bike. It looks like a small bicycle, but with no pedals.
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I'm sure you don't care, and many on this forum also won't care, but legally if it has no pedals then it's not an e-bike in Texas. It's a "motor-assisted cycle" using TX's screwy language, but it means to operate it on the road you have to have a license plate, insurance, and a driver's license. And you have to wear a helmet unless you take an MSF class and either have health insurance or post a $100K bond. I guess if you wanted to you could go through the same hoops as dirt bike owners to do get it plated: put on head and tail lights, turn signals, brake light, a horn, mirrors, DOT tires, and register it after having an inspection.

If you're just riding it around RV parks that's fine, or otherwise on private property. But it's not legal to operate on the road or any public bike trails. It's essentially what we'd call a "dirt bike."
 
Vinny said:
We have a whole group (7 of us) that ride dirt bikes. We all now have e MTB to ride in the summer. Much cooler and great fitness. I travel to places to ride both. On Thu we are headed to Cloudcroft. Morning e bikes, afternoon dirt bikes. I couldn't ride at that altitude or for very long otherwise. Has added some new fun.

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Enjoy the cooler weather Vinny
 
That's the bottom end of a quality brand bicycle. It's built with components appropriate for it, that is it has the cheapest components from manufacturers who make high quality stuff. Usually what this means is it'll be durable and perform perfectly acceptably for beginners or casual users, but it'll be heavy.

IDK how tall you are but that looks like a medium frame, which is probably fine if you're up to about 5'8" or so.

There is no way to put the particular motor on the bike that you suggested, but you could potentially build a new rear wheel around a hub motor, or maybe buy a whole rear wheel with a hub motor. You need a 26" rear wheel with 135mm hub spacing and the hub must be a disc brake hub with a 9 speed cassette freehub. Surely something is available, but Grok can't find anything, so this may be tough. Most 135mm hub motor hubs don't have space for disc brake or a cassette. They are single-speed and rim brake. If you don't like riding a multi-geared bike without power assist, you're going to hate a single speed, but you could convert this bike if you were forced to.

Building the battery and figuring out where to mount it on the bike may be a bigger challenge than you anticipate. IDK how the market is for that stuff nowadays. I mean, I think this is all a mistake to try and convert a perfectly usable mountain bike to a kludged-up e-bike, but y'all all know how I feel about this stuff. But this is the way to do it if you're gonna do it.
 
mr72 said:
I think this is all a mistake to try and convert a perfectly usable mountain bike to a kludged-up e-bike
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Thank you for the intel Mr72.

It's not a mistake because I do not want a perfectly usable mountain bike. 🙂

I want a cheap e-bike with a front suspension for riding around campgrounds with my Wife on her cruiser.
 
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