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eHarley?

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Mathew
They first showed the concept back in 2014 and then embarked on a demo tour around the country. For some reason they shelved it, I suspect as Brammo went over to Victory and eventually died. Now that Zero continues to perform well and Alta, Energica and others are coming on, I suspect they see an opportunity.

Given that their market for "Harley-Davidson," as the traditionalists define it, is shrinking, they have to do something new and different. They need to gain market share and all the apparel and brand-image in the world isn't going to do that with the next-gen customer. The problem, of course, is each time they step outside of what is considered "Harley-Davidson," they get beat up over it. I don't envy their management for that predicament.

I personally hope: (1) they are successful in creating a quality electric motorcycle; and (2) they are judged on the quality of that motorcycle and not how well it fills the mold of what the declining demographic thinks should or shouldn't be a Harley-Davidson.

I'd ride it! . . . if it works.
 
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Props to HD for being willing to create something that doesn't look like a traditional cruiser. The looks may be, ahem, controversial, but hey - beauty isn't everything ---- said the guy who's on his 2nd VStrom. :lol2: I wish them success.
 
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I rode the live wire and liked it a lot. Still wasn't enough range for me to commute back and forth to work with which is where an electric bike would really shine for me. The live wire looked better than this one even though they are similar. Looks like they removed some of the covers and have that big heat sink sitting there. Perhaps there were heat issues with the live wire that required that. Still, in person it was a good looking bike, especially compared with other ebikes out there and it went well and was fun to ride.

But I'm just a Harley Davidson hater, so take that for what it's worth. ;)

Link with the reports of those who got to ride -> http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99930
 
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Jason, I'll bet you hang out near biker bars & beat up people who wear doo rags and leather vests. :box:
 

Windmill

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May be an expensive way to commute to work. Price?
Some employers at plants offer free eclectic charging for employees electric vehicles. I know one and think there are others.
 

Lucydad

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I give HD management and engineering a kudo for forward thinking.

E-bikes will eventually be common? Or maybe scooters first?

I would miss the roar of either my Italian V-twin, or trepistoni...
 
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I think every motorcyclist should spend some time on an electric. The instant torque is impressive and the sensation of gaining speed without gaining sound, other than wind, was a trip! I was very close to buying a Victory Empulse when they got so cheap near the end. But the thought of an unsupported iBike with soon-to-be outdated tech and power wasn't appealing. As more of them get out there, the prices will become more reasonable too.

If Alta gets just a little more reasonable, a Redshift EXR might follow me home.
 
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I give HD management and engineering a kudo for forward thinking.

E-bikes will eventually be common? Or maybe scooters first?

I would miss the roar of either my Italian V-twin, or trepistoni...
I agree with all. And just think -- at the beginning of the last century, there was a whole generation people who probably said "I love the smell of oats in the morning. And there's nothing like the sound of iron shoes on cobblestones." Turns out one of the reasons Hitler thought the Allied invasion wouldn't succeed was he didn't see how we could possibly bring enough horses...
 
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I have to admit, much as I hate on HD, I'd love to see them go full into this market. There's a lot of smaller manufacturers out there doing great stuff with ebikes, but it'll take the big manufacturers dumping money into the R&D to push it ahead to where it needs to be, and if it takes HD leading the charge, so be it. The tech has come a long way but compared to the Internal Combustion Engine as a source of personal transportation, it's still very young and there's a lot to still be done, and that takes money.
 
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There's actually a row of charging stations behind a motel in Columbus. I don't know if it's just for employees, probably, but I never see a vehicle connected to one. And, I'm sure it's not for travelers since it's a long way from Columbus to any real destination. :rofl: It just happens to be on I10. Maybe folks traveling in their e-cars from Houston to San Antonio stop there to top up? Doubt it.

There's LOTS of gas stations around. I'll stick with gas power. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. :D
 

Tourmeister

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I have nothing against electric per se. But to my subjective eye, that is just an ugly bike.
 
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Electrics are for those with not far to go. I have to ride 20 miles one way just to get to the nearest town. We drive 40 miles to church. Nope, these are city vehicles for people riding maybe 5 miles to work. I might have liked the idea when I was riding 6 miles to work every day, but I'd still needed a gas engined motorcycle to go out of town. So, it's cheaper to burn gas going to work than to own an electric just to ride to work.
 

Windmill

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I'm surprised a hybrid M/C is not on scene, electric and fossil fuel. I could maybe go for that. Weight, I'm sure would be an issue.
 
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At the back of the pack and out of the dust
There's actually a row of charging stations behind a motel in Columbus.
The Tesla supercharger. They are also placed in Flatonia, Houston, Three Rivers, Victoria, New Braunsfels... spaced so that there are charging options for travelers. They put them near restaurants so that a driver could get 30 or 40 minutes of charge while they eat.

Electrics are for those with not far to go.
That's pretty much everybody with money to buy a new motorcycle. 450 or so urban counties make up 60%-70% of the economic output of the nation while the other 2500 make up the balance. Targeting the urban and suburban commuter makes more sense in term of economic and infrastructure from a business perspective. I'd bet that when powersports manufacturer ask what rural Americans are buying the answer it UTVs, not motorcycles, and most of those sales are probably hobby farmers.
 
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The Tesla supercharger. They are also placed in Flatonia, Houston, Three Rivers, Victoria, New Braunsfels... spaced so that there are charging options for travelers. They put them near restaurants so that a driver could get 30 or 40 minutes of charge while they eat.



That's pretty much everybody with money to buy a new motorcycle. 450 or so urban counties make up 60%-70% of the economic output of the nation while the other 2500 make up the balance. Targeting the urban and suburban commuter makes more sense in term of economic and infrastructure from a business perspective. I'd bet that when powersports manufacturer ask what rural Americans are buying the answer it UTVs, not motorcycles, and most of those sales are probably hobby farmers.
I used to repair a lot of beat up old worn out ATVs for farmers when I had a shop in Port Lavaca. :trust: Farmers actually USE utvs and atvs, not just hobby farmers. A church member in El Campo owns El Campo Cycles on 59. He tells me he sells more lawn mowers than motorcycles followed by UTV/ATV sales.

Those chargers in Columbus are in the motel parking lot adjacent to Los Cabos restaurant off 71.
 
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Oh, BTW, myself and the guy across the road are the only full time residents of our end of the road. He has a Harley and I have my KLR. He's been making comments about getting a Tenere. I think he's tired of having to horse that Harley down 2 miles of rough dirt road. :rofl: That's ONE sale to a rural resident. :D
 
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
997
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Cougar Trap, TX
Reading about the LiveWire, this version looks a lot better to me that the newer versions, style-wise. The one in the Leno video has some motor covers that look a bit like a Gold Wing, which works better for me that the 3-foot rectifier style in current reveals.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyJr8BoklC0"]Harley-Davidson Project LiveWire - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube[/ame]

In any case, I wonder when they will realize they don't need oldstyle glass mirrors on these kind of bikes, they would look a lot better without them. Replace them with rear/side view camera screen.
 

TWTim

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I think it's pretty darn cool, but the reality is that eMotos just aren't there yet. Improved but still poor range and a lack of Level 3 charging stations make them far too impractical as of now. H-D knows it's a problem, even to the point that they are limiting which dealerships get them, while requiring any dealership selling LiveWires in 2019 to install an onsite charging facility.

Out here in my small-yet-vast part of West Texas, there are only four charging stations; three in Midland and one in Odessa (and most of them inconveniently situated). If I bought a LiveWire, I wouldn't even be able to take a day ride on it. I'd end up stranded or begging Level 1 charges (which are extremely slow) wherever I could.

I've been saying for a decade that I'll buy an electric motorcycle as soon as they come in at around 8,000 bucks with a 200-mile range and less than 30 minutes of recharge time. With Level 3, the charge time requirement has been met, but the other two remain at a distance.

Matt Laidlaw of Laidlaw's H-D, who I met a couple of years ago in California, made an interesting video on the subject:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-55qn4Iih4"]Live Wire Update │ The Electric Harley-Davidson - YouTube[/ame]
 
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Joined
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I still see these kinds of bikes as only useful for folks with short commutes and such. This isn't an all day kind of ride. My commute is too far for most electric bikes at 100 miles round trip, but if I had a shorter one, I'd definitely think about it.

Of course, the sterotypical HD owner only needs to make it 2 miles to the bar and back, so this could be ideal for their target audience. :D I kid I kid! Kinda. :D
 

Tourmeister

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:tab Unless they can get charging times down to under 5-10 minutes, I see a serious need for some kind of battery standardization that makes them modular for cars, bikes, etc,... This way, kind of like empty propane tanks, you could stop at a charging station, SWAP discharged batteries for fully charged ones in a matter of a few minutes and then be on your way. There's no way I am going to sit at a charging station for 30 minutes waiting for my batteries to recharge every few hundred miles. Right now, I have a 500 mile range on my truck and it takes less than 10 minutes to refill.

:tab I guess I could see electric being good for commuting where you might have enough range for a there and back each day, plus maybe a bit of errand running, before you plug it in for the night. So in urban environments, great. But heaven forbid you need to leave the urban environment...
 
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I had a few wayward years in the Harley world, first a Fat Bob then a Road King, the latter being the biggest piece of junk motorcycle I've ever owned and was stupid to buy it.

Harley needs to adapt or die.
 
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Did you see the 2020 Pan America later down in the article?:puke:
Truly hideous. Who in their right would pass up all the great adventure bikes available to buy that thing, the first attempt by a company who has zero experience in the dual sport market.

If it's true HD, it will be overweight and overpriced.
 
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Truly hideous. Who in their right would pass up all the great adventure bikes available to buy that thing, the first attempt by a company who has zero experience in the dual sport market.

If it's true HD, it will be overweight and overpriced.
You forgot about this jewel.
[ame="https://youtu.be/49unkIIVc0Y"]1972 Harley Davidson SX350 - YouTube[/ame]
 
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Well ... it's different. It is a step forward though, in time we'll think about riding gasoline powered bikes in the same way as we think about steam powered automobiles. I'll may not be here when electric cars and bikes are the norm, but it is inevitable that we'll get there.

So, I think of this bike like another step into the darkness, and hope against hope that someday somebody will be able to figure out how to make these things pretty again. They also need to design them so they make cool noises like a proper bike again, clothespins in the spokes perhaps ...?

Dave.
 

Traxx

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I like it. I like the Altus and Zero. Will I buy one? Most likely not for a few years at least. My main issues are range, charge time and capacity. I believe that this is the future, just not ready for prime time yet.
I still haven’t seen any specs or prices yet. Can’t wait to though.
 
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So, I think of this bike like another step into the darkness, and hope against hope that someday somebody will be able to figure out how to make these things pretty again. They also need to design them so they make cool noises like a proper bike again, clothespins in the spokes perhaps ...?

Dave.
The biggest knock commonly heard against Formula E is lack of noise. The cars are brilliantly engineered & really fast. But they sound like slot cars! I think a lot of traditional race fans would enjoy the series more if the cars played recordings of Ferrari V-12 or Cosworth V-8 engines.

Or a clothespin in the spokes. :-P
 

LaserDave

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The biggest knock commonly heard against Formula E is lack of noise. The cars are brilliantly engineered & really fast. But they sound like slot cars! I think a lot of traditional race fans would enjoy the series more if the cars played recordings of Ferrari V-12 or Cosworth V-8 engines.

Or a clothespin in the spokes. :-P
now as a former serious slot car racer, I might take offense to that. :lol2:

but you're right. I tried hard to get into FE, but yep, the lack of sound just didn't work for me. it's part of the experience for us old farts.
 
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:tab Unless they can get charging times down to under 5-10 minutes, I see a serious need for some kind of battery standardization that makes them modular for cars, bikes, etc,... This way, kind of like empty propane tanks, you could stop at a charging station, SWAP discharged batteries for fully charged ones in a matter of a few minutes and then be on your way. There's no way I am going to sit at a charging station for 30 minutes waiting for my batteries to recharge every few hundred miles. Right now, I have a 500 mile range on my truck and it takes less than 10 minutes to refill.

:tab I guess I could see electric being good for commuting where you might have enough range for a there and back each day, plus maybe a bit of errand running, before you plug it in for the night. So in urban environments, great. But heaven forbid you need to leave the urban environment...
Tesla had battery swamp stations going on the west coast, but I think they have discontinued them. BMW just initiated testing on a fast charger that will add 100km of range in 3 minutes, so the industry are getting there. To manage various cars with different charging capacities, the controller in the charging station determines how much charge a car can handle, then applies only that amount of charge. Maybe what we will see in the future are commercial charging stations that can charge any car regardless of it's age or transfer technology. I'm just not sure how the industry will monetize it.

It would be nice if KTM offered an extra battery for their electric bikes to extend a day's ride. I think you're right and would add that electrics will never replace all liquid fuel powered cars, trucks and machinery.

Sometimes it is hard for me to step out of the car/motorcycle guy thinking. I read an article in Jalopnik a few weeks ago where the author opined on why the Toyota Corolla was the highest selling car in history considering that it is the probably the most nondescript car ever built. The author pointed out that most people, those who are not car guys, are looking for safety, economy and simply getting there. If you go to the mall in a Bentley or a Corolla, you're still at the mall. Some folks are going to like that math electric vehicles will ultimately offer.
 

LaserDave

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which reminds me of getting in trouble as a kid. we found that using the clothespin (spring loaded. regular ones did not work) to clip playing cards to the front fork, allowed you to "tune" your engine note depending on the number of cards used. this was great fun until later in the evening, when the folks tried to have cribbage night. guess who had to ride that bike 2 miles to a Walgreens for more cards?
 

Traxx

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Looks like specs and pricing will be released in Jan. I am curious to see how it is received. I can’t wait to start seeing some real world reviews on it as well. How will it stack up against the Zero? As for the sound of the engine. Mehhhh, I can dig the silence.
I believe that electrics will take over for fossil fuels. Starting with hybrids. There is no reason for them not to.
 
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This is all very exciting actually. Look at how long engineers have been squeezing and modifying the internal combustion engine. Electric has only been seriously considered for transportation a very short time comparatively and look at the gains that have been made already.

The next big gains will come now that the big manufacturers are dipping their toes, and larger budgets into the game. Racing will push the tech further along as everyone looks to gain the biggest advantage, which we all know comes in size, weight, power, and longevity. Those three are even more important in motorcycle racing, especially size and weight. All of that trickle down tech is good for the consumer.

We say it's not ready for prime time yet, but I believe that finish line is well within sight, and the improvements to come after that will be great.

One great measuring stick is the TT Zero on the Isle of Man race. In eight years the lap time went from 23:22.89 to 18:34.956 and average speed went from 96.820 to 121.824 with steady improvement pretty much every year.
 
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I agree. Electrics are here to stay, and there will probably be other alternative fuel source bikes & cars. I get that it isn't for everyone - right now, an electric vehicle would never suffice for my main ride because there isn't yet one that will drag a camping trailer to Colorado. But I'm not going to write off a viable developing technology because it doesn't suit my personal needs. Considering the huge percentage of US driving that is done in urban or suburban areas, electrics will make sense for a lot of people and for a lot of applications, as the prices decrease and the ranges increase.
 
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If we had the room, a small electric car would work well for my wife. She has a 5 mile commute on a country road to get to work. She comes home for lunch so 20 miles per day would be easy. If I had her commute, an electric bike would likely already be in my garage.
 
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If we had the room, a small electric car would work well for my wife. She has a 5 mile commute on a country road to get to work. She comes home for lunch so 20 miles per day would be easy. If I had her commute, an electric bike would likely already be in my garage.
And don't leave out make them affordable for the average Joe. I have a 75 mile round trip on the BMW and she gets around 50-55MPG. But wife is the same as yours, just a hop and a skip and shes at work her current vehicle gets 20 MPG.:doh:
 
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