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Getting gasoline - what price for you?

Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
3,389
Location
Gravel Switch, KY
I HAVE definitly noticed a mileage drop from what i was getting this time last year. I was getting 120 miles on the highway at 75 before i had to hit reserve, now i am making about 105 or so. I always buy premium unleaded from QT whenever possible, i don't notice any difference but my bike seems to like the QT fuel.
Is your bike high compression or super advanced timing? If not, why run premium? It's actually harder on the bike to run premium if the bike does not require it.
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
46
Location
Keller, TX
Jack G, KenH:
offtopic:
Last spring was caught in the rain. I knew it would not last long and no
we did not have suits on, was two up on the wing. Pavement slick, slick, slick
Pulled off and it let up while at stop light had been northbound on East loop 820 in Fort Worth. Same day friend of mine was caught in same storm and exited his motorcycle at 50 mph landing in a concrete culvert with pretty severe injuries. He is over 60 years old. Retired military

If its light rain its not too bad and the traffic light its not near the bother a frog strangler in heavy traffic is.

ontopic:
Diesel fuel prices is getting real depressing. Rode to Aquilla yesterday and noticed
prices were 4.69 gallon at various places.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
1,159
Location
North Dallas, Texas
Is your bike high compression or super advanced timing? If not, why run premium? It's actually harder on the bike to run premium if the bike does not require it.
The bike just seems to run best on high octane. I ride it hard sometimes and it will detonate pretty hard on the freeway if i get on it hard above 65 with regular fuel.
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,685
Location
Bryan, TX!!
We just got back from a funeral in Hawaii. After hearing all the horror stories about fuel costs there, I was surprised to find $3.80/gal rather common. Their prices haven't increased as quickly as they have here. From what I understand, it was about $3.60 a year ago there. Never saw $4.00 for regular.

In BCS I see $3.60-3.70
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2003
Messages
1,715
Location
Waco
I gassed up my motorcycle on Friday after the fuel light came on. I cost me $22.44 to fill it up with mid-grade. :brainsnap I'm glad I don't drive a Suburban.
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
2,502
Location
Huntsville,Tx
Just put in 67.51 in the Tacoma, similar to what tim had stated earlier, the most I have ever paid for a tank of fuel for this truck. It had the fuel light on and was pretty empty.
I don't really watch price per gallon much. I just buy what I need (I have a short commute of about 6 miles each way down a farm road,not rich)and glance up at the pump so I can know what it is when I balance the checking account online. The 67 bucks did catch my eye today, had me standing there shaking my head a lil.:giveup:
 

KenH

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Feb 18, 2007
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Lost in space
Nearby crude oil futures almost kissed $130.00 by just a hair. Natural gas is cheap on a relative basis. Now to convert yer car into natural gas :)

RB
CNG conversions have been doable for years. Unfortunately, the compressor used to fill that big, heavy tank that takes up half your trunk space is very expensive. Also, CNG is a very "dry" fuel and prolonged use under heavy loads can cause rapid damage to valves and seats.

While there are many fuels that can be used as alternatives to gasoline, none duplicate gasoline's versatility, for any price.
 
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
5,787
Location
RIO DELL, CA
The drama continues :doh:

House passes bill to sue OPEC over oil prices

As if that won't just drive prices even higher! :argh: How do such idiots manage to convince people that they should be in positions of power... :brainsnap
Scott: I agree but is this the "real" reason those idiots did what they did/
The legislation also creates a Justice Department task force to aggressively investigate gasoline price gouging and energy market manipulation.

"This bill guarantees that oil prices will reflect supply and demand economic rules, instead of wildly speculative and perhaps illegal activities," said Democratic Rep. Steve Kagen of Wisconsin, who sponsored the legislation.
Wally, suffering at $4.15/gal
 

Tourmeister

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Scott: I agree but is this the "real" reason those idiots did what they did/
The legislation also creates a Justice Department task force to aggressively investigate gasoline price gouging and energy market manipulation.

"This bill guarantees that oil prices will reflect supply and demand economic rules, instead of wildly speculative and perhaps illegal activities," said Democratic Rep. Steve Kagen of Wisconsin, who sponsored the legislation.
Wally, suffering at $4.15/gal
Please define gouging. I think it mere political grandstanding :roll: If we are going to investigate market manipulation, how about we start with examining the role of the government in the market via regulations, taxes, and also its wanton destruction of the dollar ;-)
 

Tourmeister

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Haven't you made that same comment already?
:tab I thought so, but apparently I am missing something :-P When does the price become gouging? How do we know ahead of time? There are no rules. It is always an after the fact judgment. One person's gouging is another's perfectly reasonable price. To allow for the claim of gouging is to completely deny the right of private property and to approve the use of force to confiscate such property for the benefit of others. If we are so worried about gouging, then the government should just go ahead and enforce price controls so there is no question about how the price is set. Of course, we soon have LONG lines at the pump again... :doh:
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Messages
1,843
Location
Yuma, AZ
I paid $2.21 per gallon of diesel this past weekend. I think I might have to make weekly trips to the beach just to get good deals on fuel. Hmm, at $2 per gallon cheaper, how long would it take to pay off a 100 gallon in bed tank?
 
R

Red Brown

:tab I thought so, but apparently I am missing something :-P When does the price become gouging? How do we know ahead of time? There are no rules. It is always an after the fact judgment. One person's gouging is another's perfectly reasonable price. To allow for the claim of gouging is to completely deny the right of private property and to approve the use of force to confiscate such property for the benefit of others. If we are so worried about gouging, then the government should just go ahead and enforce price controls so there is no question about how the price is set. Of course, we soon have LONG lines at the pump again... :doh:
I view the massive run-up in fuel prices as mirroring about what is happening on the world futures market. This is invisible hand of the market forces.

Gas stations, within reason, will track the spot prices of gasoline. There might be small deviations based on location, transportation cost etc.

Regard to gouging, I think hardware stores charging 5-8 times than the prevailing value for say a hammer or lumber during the Katrina incident would be a better example.

RB
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Messages
1,843
Location
Yuma, AZ
Had a friend with a Chevy Silverado back in 76 that converted to propane/gasoline. Easy enough to do with a carbureted engine. Not sure how you'd do it with EFI. +1 for carburetors. :mrgreen:

I have a setup for carter carbs, goes on top of your carb. This was in a jeep, we had dual fuel, flip a switch to off, let the gas carb run dry, flip to propane, and start the engine. The timing was a bit retarted for propane, but all is good, didn't matter much.
 

Tourmeister

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Regard to gouging, I think hardware stores charging 5-8 times than the prevailing value for say a hammer or lumber during the Katrina incident would be a better example.

RB
Why is supply and demand to be suspended during an emergency? Why does an emergency suspend property rights?
 
R

Red Brown

Why is supply and demand to be suspended during an emergency? Why does an emergency suspend property rights?
In general is it morally wrong (remember, you're the guy that promotes absolutes in morality - to which I agree). In the example of the Katrina victims they needed the items they're buying. And gougers know this. And they ratchet up their prices to take advantage of that need. That looks an awful lot like exploitation, and that seems wrong.

It’s one question whether prices should be allowed to adjust freely fer market forces, and another whether someone who exploits that freedom. In extreme circumstances of widespread suffering etc....the Government can and does suspend certain rules. This provides a sense of base for rebuilding.

RB
 
R

Red Brown

I did not see that but great article. Here is the following quote pulled from it:

Chastain, president of Parkside Homes, a builder that specializes in energy-efficient homes, readily acknowledges that he’s a ‘glass half-full’ kind of guy. He sees rising fuel costs as an opportunity for the U.S. to begin reinventing itself as a leaner more efficient country.

Let him explain his reasoning:

Cheap energy is a root cause for many of the social ills tearing at the fabric of American society.

Ugly and disjointed suburban sprawl, decaying inner cities, long commutes in gas guzzling SUVs, huge energy-burning homes -- the origins of these problems can be traced directly to the low cost of energy in post World War II America, Chastain argues.

Cheap gas allowed people to move further and further away from where they work, requiring them to make longer and longer commutes. And cheap heating fuel--natural gas and electricity--allowed these same people to build gigantic homes that waste at least as much energy as is used to keep those homes warm and well lit.

“The days of cheap fuel are over with and now we have to change the way we live. Biggie-sizing everything--those days are over,” said Chastain.


He’s predicting a return to an era in which people live 15 minutes or less from their office. And those homes will be much smaller, and far more fuel-efficient than the models favored in recent decades.
Indeed, he’s ready to break ground on two developments of smaller, fuel-efficient homes, one near downtown Nashville and another near Huntsville, Ala.

Shorter commutes mean more time with family, and less wasted energy means a healthier environment. All of this a direct--and positive -- consequence of the rising cost of fuel, according to Chastain.


I agree!

RB
 
Joined
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Location
RIO DELL, CA
Please define gouging. I think it mere political grandstanding :roll: If we are going to investigate market manipulation, how about we start with examining the role of the government in the market via regulations, taxes, and also its wanton destruction of the dollar ;-)
Scott: goughing was ALSO in the quote, i just didn't get it to show that. A few replys after that someone explained the goughing after Katrina.I think that's a good example, but I also see your point of view in relationship to one's financial place in life[am I correct in the money aspect...rich=not goughing since they can afford it]. I do feel most of the price increases are due to SPECULATORS that have money to invest. IMHO
Wally, still suffering @$4.15/gal
 

scar04

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Feb 18, 2005
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Laredo, TX
There is a proposition to take institutional investors out of the equation, as they are the ones in control of the spot contracts and what not or so is claimed

http://www.cnbc.com/id/24758932

From CNBC's "Fast Money" with a discussion on where the blame should lie

The oil companies are claiming they're victims of the skyrocketting prices as well. and yet I hear stories of tankers sitting in the gulf waiting for theprice to rise.
 
Last edited:

Tourmeister

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Huntsville
In general is it morally wrong (remember, you're the guy that promotes absolutes in morality - to which I agree). In the example of the Katrina victims they needed the items they're buying. And gougers know this. And they ratchet up their prices to take advantage of that need. That looks an awful lot like exploitation, and that seems wrong.

It’s one question whether prices should be allowed to adjust freely fer market forces, and another whether someone who exploits that freedom. In extreme circumstances of widespread suffering etc....the Government can and does suspend certain rules. This provides a sense of base for rebuilding.

RB
:tab So let me see if I understand. If someone needs something and a seller charges a price that keeps him from acquiring it or forces the person to pay more than he might otherwise pay, then the seller is being immoral? :brainsnap You still have not addressed why one person's "need" over rules the property rights of another. It is one thing to say that if you are in a position to help someone that is in dire need, you should do so as an act of voluntary charity. I would agree with this in many cases. It is entirely another to say you MUST help someone else at your expense. I mean, what if the plywood seller simply decided to board up his shop and leave town, refusing to sell his stock at any price? Would that be immoral? Or is it only the fact that a seller makes money off of the needs of other people that is so morally wrong?

:tab You claim that an emergency changes things. Let's say a big storm is a few days out and everyone needs plywood. However, if there are more people needing plywood than there is plywood to meet that need, then at ANY price, people are going to have to do without. If the price stays low, you can guarantee it will run out quickly. People that might not need it really bad will buy it just because it is cheap insurance against the possibility of higher prices later. You know, they might even engage in that dreaded act of stockpiling :lol2: What is worse, they might turn around and sell it privately for a steep profit after the retailers run out. However, since they are not a retailer, they likely won't get nailed for "gouging". No matter what, people are going to do without.

:tab Now what happens if the price were allowed to go up according to the supply/demand? In this case, only those people willing to pay the higher price will be buying it. Of course, the near automatic hysterical reply to this notion is that only the "rich" people will be able to afford it and the poor people will get screwed. However, at the higher prices, "immoral" hoarding or stockpiling are far less likely to occur. What is also typically overlooked is that if the price is allowed to really go up, there will then exist an incredible opportunity for someone to make a serious profit by getting plywood from another market and hustling it to the one where it is so desperately needed, thus increasing the potential supply and meeting the needs of more people. However, if prices are prevented from going up, then there is little incentive to incur the costs of getting the extra plywood here.

:tab The laws of economics don't care a whit about whether or not there is an "emergency" and people suddenly have "real" needs as opposed to all those not so real needs in non emergency times. Price controls ALWAYS lead to shortages of supply relative to demand. This has been born our by empirical evidence since before the Roman Empire engaged in it. The best way to meet a demand for something is to let the price rise so that an incentive exists to bring more of the product to market. All the price gouging laws in the world will never change that reality. Price controls do not provide a base for rebuilding. They simply delay it by restricting the supply. The "Great" depression is a perfect example. Price controls, production controls, wage controls and more inflation all led to prolonging the depression. It is similar to what is going on right now with the government doing everything it can to keep the markets from making a painful but necessary correction to adjust for all the inflation and government interference in the markets in the last 30 years.
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
698
Location
Austin, TX
Rode to Waco and back today taking the scenic route. Stopped and paid 4.03 for 92 octane. Of course filling up two bikes at a time hurts a bit more at the pump than when I am riding without the wife on her bike.

Wayne
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
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Spring, tx
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5800462.html


Some wonder if speculators are fueling oil run-up
Debate centers on the rush to cash in on crude


By DAVID IVANOVICH
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle Washington Bureau

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WASHINGTON — With American motorists struggling to pay record-high gasoline prices, a debate rages in the halls of Congress and across the Oil Patch over the role speculators may be playing in driving up oil prices.

Crude prices have rocketed nearly $70 a barrel in the past year. Some energy experts suggest speculation could account for $20 to $30 of that run-up.

Desperate to help angry constituents, lawmakers have been scrambling to find solutions. They have voted to close the so-called Enron loophole by regulating electronic trading, and they've given the Federal Trade Commission more authority to guard against market manipulation.

Now some energy and trading experts are calling on lawmakers to focus on the pension funds, endowments and other institutional investors — including the University of Texas and the state's teacher retirement system — that have poured billions of dollars into the commodities futures market in the last few years. The trend has exacerbated the crude price run-up, these analysts say.

Institutional investors' interest in oil "is accelerating and emboldening the price rise," said Mark Lapolla of Sixth Man Research, an Atlanta-based financial research firm. "We just can't quantify it."

Last week, oil futures shot past $133 a barrel, while prices at the gas pump, according to AAA, again reached new heights — nearly $3.88 a gallon on Friday for regular.

Oil is just the most visible of a slew of commodities — corn, soybeans, wheat, rice — to see dramatic price rises this year.

Federal regulators admit commodity futures markets have seen "robust growth," but they point to market forces to explain the rise in prices.

"We really don't think the case has been made that speculation is driving prices," John Fenton, director of market surveillance for the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, told a House panel.

Shell Oil Co. President John Hofmeister seconds that argument, noting that neither he, nor his company's trading experts, see any evidence that speculators are a key factor. "I don't believe it," he said.

To be sure, the oil markets give plenty of reason for concern, irrespective of any trading factors. Despite a moribund U.S. economy, world oil demand continues to rise, and fears are growing about whether production can keep up with the global thirst for crude.


No shocking influences
Oil markets can be rocked by any number of disruptions, whether it be political turmoil in Nigeria or production woes in Mexico. And the Paris-based International Energy Agency is reportedly preparing to give the world some worrisome news about future oil supplies.

If oil prices really were so much higher than supply and demand forces would suggest, argues John Felmy, chief economist for the American Petroleum Institute, then holders of crude oil would be unable to find buyers, and inventories would build. But that's not happening, Felmy said.

Still, the world oil markets have not experienced any dramatic shock that many would have thought necessary to cause oil prices to double in a year.

Disruptions in world oil supplies are nothing new. And with the U.S. economy weak, the International Energy Agency recently lowered its projections for demand growth this year.

"We're right back in the soup again — market prices bearing no resemblance to supply and demand," said Urban "Obie" Obrien, director of government affairs for Houston-based Apache Corp., an oil and gas producer.


Getting the reins ready
Lawmakers have zeroed in on an assessment by Exxon Mobil Corp. Senior Vice President J. Stephen Simon that current inventory levels around the world historically would have suggested a crude price of around $50 to $55 a barrel.

But since 2005, Simon said, a weak U.S. dollar, geopolitical risks and speculation have created a "disconnect" between historical norms and current prices.

Speculation, trading experts say, is a crucial component of any commodity market. It provides liquidity for the market and helps buyers and sellers understand what direction prices are headed. No one is suggesting that it would be possible or practical to ban speculation.

"This isn't a witch hunt against speculators," researcher Lapolla said.

But with commodity prices spiking, and motorists complaining loudly about the price of gasoline, lawmakers are wondering whether they should step to rein in the speculators.

Officials at the New York Mercantile Exchange, arguing against any such effort, point to government statistics that suggest the role of "non-commercial" players — those not actually in the business of producing or processing a commodity — has declined, even as prices headed skyward.


Looking for a hedge
But critics argue that the government data mask the real impact institutional investors are having on commodity prices.

Institutional investors started adding commodities to their portfolios of stocks, bonds and real estate about five years ago, as a hedge against inflation and a weak U.S. dollar. And what began as a trickle has become a torrent following the sub-prime mortgage crisis, trading experts say.

The Teacher Retirement System of Texas, for instance, began investing in commodity indexes in the fourth quarter of last year. Now those investments have a market value of $4.4 billion, system spokesman Howard Goldman said.

The University of Texas Investment Management Co., which invests money for the University of Texas System, has about $500 million in commodities, and the California Public Employees' Retirement System, the nation's largest public pension plan, has $1 billion invested.

Lehman Brothers' Edward Morse, in a recent report, estimated that assets under management in commodity indexes ballooned from about $70 billion in early 2006 to $235 billion by mid-April. The bulk of that investment has been in oil.


Equal to China's demand
Trying to assess the significance of that stampede, Michael Masters, managing member of Masters Capital Management LLC, noted that while China has increased its annual demand for petroleum by 920 million barrels over the last five years, these institutional investors or "index speculators" as Masters calls them, have upped their demand for petroleum futures contracts by 848 million barrels during the same time.

"The increase in demand from index speculators is almost equal to the increase in demand from China," Masters told the Senate panel.

The problem, critics say, is that the institutional investors have waded in and bought sizable "long" positions, betting that oil prices — no matter how high they may seem now — will continue to rise.

Because of a loophole in federal trading regulations, experts say, the institutional investors can circumvent typical speculative limits. The cumulative effect, critics say, of all of this lopsided betting that prices will rise has been to propel prices skyward.

Closing that loophole, some lawmakers say, may be how Congress steps into this issue.

"It's not like they're evil or malicious," Masters said of the institutional investors. "It's just they're so big, and they all act the same."
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
390
Location
Red Rock, Texas
I foresee by years end, a new administration elected, and legislation passed that oil prices and gasoline prices will be locked at oh say, $4.75/gallon, a price control set by the govt. Oil companies will love it, because they get the price raised from $1.50/gallon from the year 2000, the govt appears to be heroes to us for locking the price, and we will be stuck with expensive fuel, which will force us to curtail our lifestyles, of large SUVs, and single occupant vehicles on our daily commute. Regular at the Red Rock Shell is $3.869, diesel is $4.829.
 

nightrider

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Mar 29, 2008
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55
Location
Alvin,Texas
Well give them time and as one Kalifornia polition says we will just take over the oil companies sounds like the old and new Russia TO ME
 
Joined
May 8, 2007
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Belton Texas
rode out to big bend this last weekend,refueled in marathon before heading into the park, and regular was 4.32 a gallon, and diesel was 5.19, first time it has cost me 25 bucks to fill up:eek2: :giveup: all fuel out there was over 4 dollars, didn't find any under 4 until we got back north of I 10 on 190.
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
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Location
Yuma, AZ
I get to fill up the GS this evening, I haven't had to fill up a "car" in 2 weeks, hopefully we can get another 2+ weeks out of them.
 
Joined
May 1, 2008
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Location
los angeles
My only ride right now until I get a bike is an 86 suberban...454 7.4 liter. 40 gal tank that I use (just to go to school and food) lasts me about 1-1/2 to 2weeks. I live in LA (northern mexico:angryfire ) and the prices for regular ranges from 4.11gal to 4.29gal....for reg!!! I've seen over the 5.00 dollar amount for premium!:eek2:The price of gas is actually a major factor in my life now...where i live, how close to school and jobs, money to buy stuff...evverything!
I can't tell you how angry I am. Bike and scooter sales should be through the roof!
 
2

2Dogs

I don't know why its so much higher over here. :miffed: We have all the big oil and gas fields here in our back yard and we pay more. :headbang:
It has to be moved to the refineries on the coasts, then shipped back to you in the middle of nowhere. Bet you thought you were somewhere, didn't you?
 
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