• Welcome to the Two Wheeled Texans community! Feel free to hang out and lurk as long as you like. However, we would like to encourage you to register so that you can join the community and use the numerous features on the site. After registering, don't forget to post up an introduction!

Hill country jail time

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Feb 28, 2003
Messages
615
Hello friends
found this on the fz1 site and Scott asked me to post this
later

Hill Country TX -Sportbike riders targeted
Be careful when riding on SR 337 between Vanderpool and Leakey ,TX.

A riding bud was in the Leakey pokey for 26 hours, snagged last Sunday by a gray, unmarked DPS car, working with the Bandera county Sheriff dept. & DPS B&W Interceptors. He was on an R-6.

He was caught NOT for speeding, but for passing on double yellow...7 times! Sheriff deputies blocked road, waiting for him at bottom of the mountain, with guns drawn!! They claim he was running. Cuffed him, and put him up for the night. The Justice of the Peace was female, and was cerebrating Mothers Day, so he was there until Monday afternoon. Has to go back to court for Reckless driving charge in June.

DPS claims too many incidents / complaints, so a task force is out & about in that area. Trooper told my friend they are planning much more traffic-enforcement activity over the summer.

Watch yerself out there

Michael Hansen
Laporte Tx
 

wczimmerman

Forum Supporter
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
1,204
Location
Renton, WA
Thanks for the heads-up. Sounds like the county is short of revenue and is planning on making it up through our wallets.

Highway robbery. :angryfir:
 

U-Turn

My Email is Dead!
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
24
Location
Oklahoma City, OK
wczimmerman said:
Thanks for the heads-up. Sounds like the county is short of revenue and is planning on making it up through our wallets.

Highway robbery. :angryfir:
Yeah. That's it. Revenue. They're short on revenue. So, they take several cruisers at a cost in excess of $250 per shift per unit, put them on a road specifically built to entice motorcycle riders, and write up about $2000 worth of citations per shift. Sounds like a real profit center to me :roll:
The fact is that traffic ordinances exist to protect you from the stupidity of others. Those that don't understand, without being told, that passing prior to the crest of a hill or in a curve, running through a neighborhood at 70mph, doing wheelies in traffic and other such stupidity is dangerous.
You want to be a squid? Be a squid. You want to speed? Speed. You want to ride stupid? Go ahead. But, you need to accept that there will be times when you will see the blues behind you and LEO will pull out his big ticket book and invite you to the policemans ball.
Take the orriginal post for what it was. A heads-up. If you plan on riding in that area, expect that LEO will be watching you and ride accordingly.
I feel for the guy described in the original post but, I must say, I understand why he spent the night a grey bar hotel. I mean, if I were LEO and I lit up a vehicle for a violation and it took more than a few seconds for the opperator of said vehicle to acknowledge my presence, it would mean a persuit has begun and a felony stop would soon follow.
Sorry but that's just the way it is.
 

Squeaky

2
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
13,258
Location
Katy
I just feel bad that he had to wait until Monday because of the holiday. That's just not right.

I think that if you speed, you are risking a ticket.
On the same note, if you ride a motorcycle you are risking much more and we have all accepted that risk. There are ways to reduce the risk if we choose, but it's just that - a choice.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2004
Messages
1,528
Location
Portland, TX
I am worried about something like this happening to me. I try to obey the laws but I have still been pulled over twice on a motorcycle, both for what I consider bogus stops. One instance a cop was coming toward me on my street and then pulled behind me after I pulled into my driveway. Said I was doing 40 which there was no way my little shadow could do 40 in 2nd gear (I had just turned onto my street 50 yards away). Another was disobeying a red light before turning right because I didn't put my foot down and that counts as a rolling stop. Anyways I am worried right now because my bike's current mirrors offer a great view of my elbows, and a cop is going to try to pull me over, and think I am running because I can't see him.

So until I fork over the cash for mirror extension I ride with my left hand on my knee to try to see behind me, and hope I dont get pulled over.
 

Squeaky

2
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
13,258
Location
Katy
Homermacleod has a small mirror mounted on his helmet that gives him a view directly behind him. I originally thought it was going to be a bigger distraction than help, but I too get great views of my elbows on the bike and need a better idea of what's around me.

I think I just might give it a try.
 
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
1,892
Location
Bryan, TX
wczimmerman said:
Thanks for the heads-up. Sounds like the county is short of revenue and is planning on making it up through our wallets.

Highway robbery. :angryfir:
Please research where the money (if any is collected) goes on cases before you post this kind of stuff. Ignorance is easy to spread.

This is not a put down -- ignorance simply means you don't know. :-|
 
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
1,892
Location
Bryan, TX
pdef said:
Said I was doing 40 which there was no way my little shadow could do 40 in 2nd gear (I had just turned onto my street 50 yards away).


Another was disobeying a red light before turning right because I didn't put my foot down and that counts as a rolling stop.

Your Shadow couldn't do 40 in 2nd? In about 150 feet? I can almost get that speed out of my brother in laws Segway. :-P

Balance stops aren't considered rolling stops. Not only do I do them at work on my work bike, but they are a mandatory part of qualifications for every police motorcycle course I have ever seen. All the law requires is a COMPLETE CESSATION of movement. But if you can't do them correctly ;-) yes, they are a "rolling stop".
 
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
1,892
Location
Bryan, TX
I think the way to avoid any of this is simple.................. Don't be or ride like a TOOL.

The bad part for this dufus is when his license gets suspended and the charge gets entered on his license and then he tries to renew his insurance. Can you say mega-bucks?????? :eek:
 
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
2,593
Location
Grapevine
Yup solid yellow line in your lane means don't cross it. It's there for a reason. If he crossed it seven times with a cop behind him he was asking for it.

And if he passed seven cars and had to cross the line to do it, he probably passed a lot more than that without a solid yellow. Most folks do the speed limit meaning he was probably over it and the cop just didn't get a radar on him.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2004
Messages
87
Location
Port Lavaca
Actually all of 337 from Leakey to the Bandera County line and maybe farther is double yellow so ease up some. Anyone that has ridden that road has crossed the double yellows because of one reason or another.

My brother who happens to be a Police Chief actually went by there when they arrested that guy on his way back home and thought they were probably a little on the extreme side but thanks to groups riding in mass you might as well forget the hill country for a while. Another group was written up for 62 in a 55 over the weekend as well....don't tell me, none of you are guilty of that either.

He didn't pass anyone but the unmarked police car (according to his post on another board) He probably crossed the lines setting up for curves...(needs to maintain lane discipline no doubt) but the guy wasn't really flying because the car kept up for a little while.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2004
Messages
1,528
Location
Portland, TX
10-95 said:
Your Shadow couldn't do 40 in 2nd? In about 150 feet? I can almost get that speed out of my brother in laws Segway. :-P

Balance stops aren't considered rolling stops. Not only do I do them at work on my work bike, but they are a mandatory part of qualifications for every police motorcycle course I have ever seen. All the law requires is a COMPLETE CESSATION of movement. But if you can't do them correctly ;-) yes, they are a "rolling stop".
The shadow couldn't get to 75 without the engine sounding like it was going to pass out so I put a different rear sprocket on it to make it more highway comfortable. So yeah it could probably do it, but it was not a very fastly accelerating machine. My point was just that there was no way I was going that fast. I think I was just pulled over because I was an obvious college student riding without a helmet (yes I had the sticker, and yes I have since gotten a clue about gear).

In re-reading my post it sounded like a typical anti-LE rant. I am not ANTI-LEOs... I AM, however, anti-CSPD. I have had nothing but bad dealings with them and every time I have been pulled over it has been by them. I interned with the Bryan PD and had nothing but a great time with those guys. I am still considering a career in Law Enforcement and would love to work with a local PD, if I could just skip patrol and go straight to CID. In the meantime, I will tip-toe while in CS and hope I don't accidently endanger the public on my menacing 400lb bike, and avoid the half-ton, speeding, drunk-driving, wreckless driving, trucks that frequent ever street here.
 

Tourmeister

Keeper of the Asylum
Admin
Joined
Feb 28, 2003
Messages
45,684
Location
Huntsville
:tab I don't offer the following as a justification for any bad behavior of the College Station PD. When I was there, the typical college student was a freaking moron. Most could not drive. Most were only concerned with partying and having a good time. The level of immaturity was a real eye opener to me. I expected better. If I were a cop in that town, I would be really hard pressed to keep a good attitude. Considering the nonstop stream of B.S. they have to deal with, I am really surprised they are not worse. Personally, I never had a bad run in with them in my five years in town. Maybe I was just lucky? I ride there quite often and have not had any probelms with them in the five years I've been riding. Maybe it's all the luggage I always have on the bike? I find that most times, LEO are like Wasps. If you don't give them a reason to sting you, they tend to leave you alone. But when they do sting you, it generally hurts! Occasionally, you will get stung no matter what you are doing. Life in general seems that way sometimes :scratch

Adios,
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
78
Location
Pearland
This Was David out of the TSBA San Antonio Chapter. You can read his actual post as follows:

On 05/09 (Sunday), I was arrested on 337 between Vanderpol and Leaky and spent 26hrs in jail! DPS was doing some type of operation in the area to catch fast bikers on the mountain. They had a unmarked car driving up and down the mountain when I passed it going the same direction. I never looked back, he had no siren, just lights, I didn't know he was there following me. The ground was a little wet so I wasn't pushing it and he was a able to keep up intil I reached the top and then it dried out. I then pushed it and pulled away. When I reached the bottom I stopped to wait for John and about 20 seconds later the unmarked car came from behind me and a marked DPS came from the front. They stopped and pulled thier weapons. Two more Sheriff Trucks showed up within seconds and I was in cuffs. They thought I was trying to run. Unless you plan on not passing a soul, staying within thin the law 100% of the time like or members do anyway. STAY AWAY FROM THE LEAKY AREA. I can say they treated me very nice in the city jail. They say there have been to many motocycle accidents this year.
 
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
1,892
Location
Bryan, TX
pdef said:
I interned with the Bryan PD and had nothing but a great time with those guys. I am still considering a career in Law Enforcement and would love to work with a local PD, if I could just skip patrol and go straight to CID.
I've done the CID deal. Made it three years before the stress almost killed me. Wasn't the work load, it was the deals made behind my back.

If it tells you anything ......... I was offerred a scholarship to college to major in engineering. If I knew what I do now I would have gone. Get a good civilian job with benefits and pay.

Can't say I know too many guys in CSPD, just the motor guys. They are actually a very fun crowd. You just have to understand business is business. A whole bunch of folks say that when I get to work I take my heart out and put it up until quitting time. Sometimes you just have to be that way.
 
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
1,892
Location
Bryan, TX
I'd take what the guy posted with a grain of salt. Even the unmarked cars DPS works out of have sirens and deck/grille lights. I don't see them initiating a chase without using them. FWIW if they are not used an evading charge wouldn't stick and policy wouldn't allow it.

The deal about him not going too fast because the car kept up had me laughing. Not to boast but I have never lost a chase to a motorcycle. Never. Not even when we used to drive those big-*** boat looking Crown Vics.
 

Tourmeister

Keeper of the Asylum
Admin
Joined
Feb 28, 2003
Messages
45,684
Location
Huntsville
:tab Maybe I am just clueless, but if the guy knew the car had lights and that it was keeping up with him, how stupid can he be not to suspect it is a cop?! And then to pull away on the straights?! No wonder they nabbed him for evading. What he really seems to need is a swift kick in the butt and a good rap on the noggin! Then there is the whole issue of the tags being out by quit a bit of time... This guy's side of the story sounds like he's making himself out to be a victim of the LEO when in reality he is a victim of his own stupidity.

:tab Someone correct me if I am wrong here, but last I heard, a properly setup car can easily corner faster than a motorcycle. Something to do with the ability to handle higher lateral g's? I'm not really referring to race or sports cars that generate aerodynamic downforce to increase traction, just a typical auto.

Adios,
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2004
Messages
87
Location
Port Lavaca
Scott,

Even cars that can carry the G's at the apex will lose so much time in acceleration and braking that the bikes will walk away from them.


10-95,

You are no doubt correct in chasing a lot of riders. That said, I could lap a Police Interceptor Crown Vic at TWS and it wouldn't take many laps either...

The thing is that I don't haul *** around the streets and have no desire to. My ***** with the whole public safety deal is that people haul *** through neighborhoods ALL the time, ignore stop signs, fail to yield (this one is out of hand) and a host of others with no penalty unless they cause an accident, then they lie and deny. The crackdown is out on the speed transition areas on the main roads in and out of town because it's EASIER to write that ticket. A lot of it IS about Revenue generation IMO.

I do believe that the more the LE community does to crack down on the bikes the more likely the guys, that don't have a lot to lose monetarily, will run. Nobody minds (well not too much) paying for a speeding ticket when caught fair and square...that's the game, you play, you pay but when it is likely to turn into a racing ticket or jail ride because you have 5 guys riding together at 85 mph, the guys will run, figuring some will get away and they will go to jail anyway.

The lesson for most is to stay cool on the street and get more into the touring side of our sport and do some track days to satisfy the speed side besides one track day will let you know real quick that your not as fast as you think you are.

Before anyone thinks it's some guy that has a bunch of tickets...I've taken defensive driving to get out of a 65 in a 55 in the last 10 years...Knock on wood, Knock on wood. To save fuel, I generally set the cruise at 58-65 in the Powerstroke. Driving less than an hour on 95% of most trips doesn't warrant me sweating 2-5 minutes.


We had a pursuit a month ago in Victoria where at least 2 city police, 2 Trooper units (3 troopers) were chasing a HD Sportster for speeding. The DPS car with two troopers hit a minivan...caused injuries and all that. IMO they had a little video on the guy already, don't chase his dumb ***. He wasn't a danger to society like some Serial Rapist or something. The EGO got the best of them and "he ain't getting away from us" stepped in. This guy is around 23 had wrecked the bike a couple of months earlier doing the same thing and was caught, this time he had no helmet (clear ID), so why not let him go, take the video to the judge, issue a warrant, arrest his *** later that evening when he was celebrating with his friends and whooping it up about getting away. It was a waste of valuable resources and put the officers and motorist at unneccesary risk IMO.

I don't know the guy that we started this discussion about but hopefully we'll get everyone to ride just a little bit slower and do a little more site seeing.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
78
Location
Pearland
Scott, I guess you would just have to know David. He is not the type of guy to run from the cops. He and his Dad Ivan are both great guys. I personally do not think that he ran. Things get so twisted up when read on the forums. This is my take on the situation. I believe that David was probably running on the mountain and wanted to go at his pace. He probably passed the cars on the straights between the 1st and second mountain. He probably passed the unmarked car and was focused on just getting around cars without really looking at the cars to see what there were. I mean after all, isn't that why they are unmarked? to hide in unsuspecting traffic? Anyhow, I almost never look back when I am in a twisty portion of road. Especially roads like 337. David probably then went to the bottom of the 2nd mountain and waited just like we always do for the other guys to catch up. At that time, the marked cars pulled up and then the unmarked car with lights on probably pulled up and he probably realised at that moment that he had passed an unmarked car. That is the conclusion that I come to when I read his story.
I also remember correctly that you, yourself passed on that very same road. Remember, the blue and white leathers passing you, then the blue and neon flame leathers, then a BMW that nearly took out your group...then you passed around the rest area...and yes it is still dbl yellow. The same goes in Arkansas. I am willing to be that you made a few passes out there cause **** near the whole state is dbl yellow...lol. I am not trying to single you out, I am just saying that we all seem to think that we are the safer rider. And that is just plain rediculous. I am just saying that we make what we assume safe risks while riding and sometimes we get bit in the ***. True, some people haul ***...some ride slow, some ride wheelies on the freeways. Jerry Seinfeld said it best...
How come someone going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a moron?
 

Tourmeister

Keeper of the Asylum
Admin
Joined
Feb 28, 2003
Messages
45,684
Location
Huntsville
Howdy,

:tab I did not intend to imply that I never pass on the double yellow, I do. The ride you are referring to when I did pass was on one of the long straights, NOT at the overlook. When I do pass, I don't blow around people at WFO. I make sure they know I am there and that I am coming. I don't pass in, or going into a corner. If I get busted for it, I certainly am not going to whine about it. Same for speeding. ;-)

:tab If the guy really truly did not know someone was chasing him, meaning he did not intend to knowingly run, then I am amazed. This is not to say I don't believe it could be true, I am just really amazed that he would be running through that area and never check his mirrors!? I'm not talking about a long staring into the mirrors, just the quick check that takes only an instant. Doesn't everyone else do this fairly regularly?

Adios,
 

scratch

Inactive Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2003
Messages
4,676
Location
Houston
Tourmeister said:
Howdy,

...This is not to say I don't believe it could be true, I am just really amazed that he would be running through that area and never check his mirrors!? I'm not talking about a long staring into the mirrors, just the quick check that takes only an instant. Doesn't everyone else do this fairly regularly?
Just speaking for myself, but when I ride alone I don't check the mirrors that often, particularly if my attention is focused on a stretch of technical road such as what you'll find in the Hill Country. I'm far more concerned about what's in front of me than what's behind me.

It sounds like this guy deserved his ticket, but whether or not he deserved the treatment he received is all a matter of opinion, and since I have no first-hand knowledge of what transpired I won't speculate about it. However, if you want to ride fast on public roads, you have to accept that a run-in with the law is something you'll probably have to deal with sooner or later.

Do I ride fast? Yes; sometimes. I try not to be stupid about it, or hit triple-digit speeds, but someday I realize I might be stopped and ticketed. It'll suck and I'll be a little angry, but the bottom line is that I will have earned it. (and I probably won't post about it either. ;-) ) The one thought that always slows me down whenever the temptation to go fast starts to overcome me is this: Will I be putting anybody else's life in jeapardy? I can accept having to suffer the consequences of my own behavior, but I never want someone else to suffer for it.
_______________________

Hey Kenny,

Thanks for giving us your thoughts on this and other law enforcement-related topics. In my experience, not too many LEO's like to talk very much about these things with us "civilians". Getting your no-BS insight on such matters can be a real eye-opener on what you do (and have to deal with) in your work.
 
Joined
May 2, 2004
Messages
1,564
Location
Great State of Texas
Tourmeister said:
Someone correct me if I am wrong here, but last I heard, a properly setup car can easily corner faster than a motorcycle. Something to do with the ability to handle higher lateral g's? I'm not really referring to race or sports cars that generate aerodynamic downforce to increase traction, just a typical auto.

Adios,
Correct. I didn't beleive it myself at first when my friend told me, but I looked up a few famous race tracks and lap times. Cars are faster.
 
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
1,892
Location
Bryan, TX
02Silver said:
10-95,

You are no doubt correct in chasing a lot of riders. That said, I could lap a Police Interceptor Crown Vic at TWS and it wouldn't take many laps either...
The street is not TWS. The street has gravel, sharp turns, traffic and other obstacles. Compare apples to apples. Personal experience -- I'll take a car over a bike for speed anyday.

As far as chasing someone goes many depts have gone to the no chase policy. We tried it for a while. IT DOESN'T WORK. Word gets out and people won't stop. After those in charge realize that the policies change again. Your thoughts are nice but not practical.

I'll agree there are some situations that are carried too far and some people are in positions of "power" that shouldn't be. I'm the first to say that. But if you do something contrary to law you should suck it up and take it like a man. If you're not guilty that's what the courts are for.

Maybe this guy was running and maybe he wasn't. Maybe he DIDN'T check his mirrors and never knew the car was behind him. When everything else is cleared away if he wasn't riding the way he did he wouldn't have spent the night in the pokey and no one here would be discussing this. Fact is he is responsible for the whole thing -- no matter who is "right or wrong".
 

Squeaky

2
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
13,258
Location
Katy
...am I still the only one who thinks that spending more time than necessary behind bars was out of line simply because there wasn't someone available to hear the case?

I have no comment on him getting thrown in, but what about swift justice? I would hate to be stuck just because it was a holiday weekend and people were on vacation.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Messages
775
Location
College Station, TX
Well said....

Just FYI, I have been in a situation where I could not see or hear a LEO behind me. It was very cold and I was trying to get home as fast as I could. I was hugging the tank with my feet up on the passenger pegs and I was hauling ***. Maybe 85-90 MPH. I couldn't see my mirrors because I was hunkered down so much. What I did notice (it was nighttime) was the red and blues flashing on a speed limit sign. I sat up and noticed a police car about a half mile behind me with lights going. I pulled over and removed my gloves and helmet and turned the bike off before he got there. The LEO was very cool about the whole thing and let me go. He told me that he had clocked me speeding and pulled out on to the road with his lights on and blipped the siren a few times but it was obvious that I couldn't hear him. He followed me for about 3 or 4 miles and was radioing his pal down the road to wait for me. I explained that I had just gotten off of work and was trying to get home before it got REALLY cold out. We then discussed bikes and he told me that he always regretted selling his bike :lol: . As we parted company he told me where some other LEO's would be waiting on my way home ;-) .

He was thankful that I stopped for him as soon as I noticed and was very cool about the whole matter.

It just goes to show that there may be too many variables for us to decide what really happened.
 
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
2,593
Location
Grapevine
Well IMO speeding on a road that is pretty famous for speeding bikes isn't the brightest move in the first place. :chug:
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2004
Messages
87
Location
Port Lavaca
10-95,

I could see that point of view especially in a college town. Around here (small town around 10000 and even Victoria) would be a little different...not another FZ1 in town for instance. My brother is a LEO (Chief actually) and I am very much against the hooligans messing up the sport for everyone. I don't think you or my brother needs to risk their life for some 23 year old on a HD Sportser for a traffic violation...the dudes time will come even if he get's away that time. In a college town with probably 40000 variable population, things would be different but even there it wouldn't be worth you getting hurt to nab a speeder...not the next day looking back on it.

The comment about the lapping at TWS was directed as much for Scott's question car vs. bike question as anything. Motorcyclist did a comparison in late 2002. On a track sport bike against sport car (both stock) the car is left for dead. Moto GP to F1 is just the opposite so there are lots of variations and comparisons. Hauling *** through the streets of any town at any time of day would be much better in the confines of a cage.

You guy's wouldn't believe how much rain we've had here...and it's pouring again...keeps me surfing the net anyway. I'm still debating and researching Dual Sports.
 
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
1,892
Location
Bryan, TX
Squeaky said:
...am I still the only one who thinks that spending more time than necessary behind bars was out of line simply because there wasn't someone available to hear the case?

I have no comment on him getting thrown in, but what about swift justice? I would hate to be stuck just because it was a holiday weekend and people were on vacation.
Squeaky,

The judge can take up to 3 days to see the guy and set bond. The time he sat in jail is not unheard of. Most jails have bonds preset by the judge, but some do not. It's up to the judge. Lots of times this can happen just because it's a weekend.
 
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
2,593
Location
Grapevine
10-95 said:
Squeaky said:
...am I still the only one who thinks that spending more time than necessary behind bars was out of line simply because there wasn't someone available to hear the case?

I have no comment on him getting thrown in, but what about swift justice? I would hate to be stuck just because it was a holiday weekend and people were on vacation.
Squeaky,

The judge can take up to 3 days to see the guy and set bond. The time he sat in jail is not unheard of. Most jails have bonds preset by the judge, but some do not. It's up to the judge. Lots of times this can happen just because it's a weekend.
Yup, standard practice. I grew up in a town like this. It's pretty much up to the LEO what happens there, county sherriffs and DPS can just lock you up for like 72 hrs max I believe it is.

Usually they will take you straight to the JP/judge, I've even known em to wake the JP up in the middle of the night at his house and take you there on the way to the jailhouse on a weekend.

In my experience if your simply respectful and not doing something really stupid cops go out of their way some to get you through and out quickly. If your not they may think you need a "lesson" and spend some jail time. I've been treated both ways in my younger days, and it was rather easy to figure out why.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Messages
2,882
Location
Upstate SC
10-95 said:
The deal about him not going too fast because the car kept up had me laughing. Not to boast but I have never lost a chase to a motorcycle. Never. Not even when we used to drive those big-*** boat looking Crown Vics.
What a coincidence. I've never lost a chase to a cop. Never. Including those fast looking camero's. :chug:
 
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
395
Location
Fort Worth
Advice

Show me a LEO who's never:

1. Exceeded the posted speed limit in (or on) his personal vehicle.

2. Crossed a solid center line on a motorcycle to pass a slower vehicle.

3. Used a cell phone, tuned the radio or engaged in other distracting behavior while driving.

I'll meekly stand on the side of the road and take advice on how my riding style could be improved from that guy. Otherwise, it's the same old "do as I say, not as I do" crap. And please don't tell me that since LEO's receive better driver training, they should be allowed to violate traffic laws. If that's the case, I'll volunteer to undergo the same training, put a sticker on my car indicating that I've done so and leave me alone.

And don't tell me that there's an extra police presence on FM 337 because there have been a higher number of motorcycle accidents this year. If that's the case, why are some of the cars unmarked? Seems to me that they should be in clearly marked cars in plain site. That way they act as a deterrent to speeding and "reckless driving". An ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure. When the city of Dallas introduced unmarked police cars, they claimed they were being used to stop road rage. However, these unmarked units were responsible for writing over nine thousand speeding tickets in the next six months. How many citations for road rage related offenses? Just over six hundred.

A DOT study has shown that it's safest when speed limits are set at the speed that eighty-five percent of the traffic on the road is travelling at. However, speed limits on most major roads are set between the 30th and 55th percentile. If that's not to create a revenue generating opportunity, perhaps our resident LEO's can explain why this situation exists.

And before the flaming begins, I support our law enforcement. The ones I know and ride with are some of the finest public servants I've met. But they're also some of the craziest riders I've ever ridden with.
 

wczimmerman

Forum Supporter
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
1,204
Location
Renton, WA
Re: Advice

FWVic said:
Show me a LEO who's never:

1. Exceeded the posted speed limit in (or on) his personal vehicle.

2. Crossed a solid center line on a motorcycle to pass a slower vehicle.

3. Used a cell phone, tuned the radio or engaged in other distracting behavior while driving.

I'll meekly stand on the side of the road and take advice on how my riding style could be improved from that guy. Otherwise, it's the same old "do as I say, not as I do" crap. And please don't tell me that since LEO's receive better driver training, they should be allowed to violate traffic laws. If that's the case, I'll volunteer to undergo the same training, put a sticker on my car indicating that I've done so and leave me alone.

And don't tell me that there's an extra police presence on FM 337 because there have been a higher number of motorcycle accidents this year. If that's the case, why are some of the cars unmarked? Seems to me that they should be in clearly marked cars in plain site. That way they act as a deterrent to speeding and "reckless driving". An ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure. When the city of Dallas introduced unmarked police cars, they claimed they were being used to stop road rage. However, these unmarked units were responsible for writing over nine thousand speeding tickets in the next six months. How many citations for road rage related offenses? Just over six hundred.

A DOT study has shown that it's safest when speed limits are set at the speed that eighty-five percent of the traffic on the road is travelling at. However, speed limits on most major roads are set between the 30th and 55th percentile. If that's not to create a revenue generating opportunity, perhaps our resident LEO's can explain why this situation exists.

And before the flaming begins, I support our law enforcement. The ones I know and ride with are some of the finest public servants I've met. But they're also some of the craziest riders I've ever ridden with.

Well said. I have been giving a great deal of thought to my reply since I posted at the beginning about this being a revenue hunt. I could not have said it better. Even the last paragraph is exactly my position. :clap
 
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
1,892
Location
Bryan, TX
Re: Advice

FWVic said:
Show me a LEO who's never:

1. Exceeded the posted speed limit in (or on) his personal vehicle.
2. Crossed a solid center line on a motorcycle to pass a slower vehicle.
3. Used a cell phone, tuned the radio or engaged in other distracting behavior while driving.
Firts let me apologize for for using all this text again, but I wanted to address this.

What you are talking about is a dressing down on the side of the road. Maybe your riding style deserves this, maybe it doesn't....I don't know. My JOB is to apprehend folks that don't follow the law. Period. If I write a ticket or haul your booty to jail the ticket/arrest is enough. If all you get is a talking to why not count yourself lucky? Are you so sure of yourself? Does it hurt your ego that much?

1 & 2 may be illegal #3 is not. Then again 1 & 2 depending on the circumstances may NOT be illegal. On duty LEOs are exempt from certain traffic laws! How do you think we make it to hot calls?

I'll meekly stand on the side of the road and take advice on how my riding style could be improved from that guy. Otherwise, it's the same old "do as I say, not as I do" crap. And please don't tell me that since LEO's receive better driver training, they should be allowed to violate traffic laws. If that's the case, I'll volunteer to undergo the same training, put a sticker on my car indicating that I've done so and leave me alone.
I sense some anger issues here................. :mrgreen:

You DO NOT want to undergo the training we do. You can't pick and choose and only take the fun stuff. So don't even go there.

And don't tell me that there's an extra police presence on FM 337 because there have been a higher number of motorcycle accidents this year. If that's the case, why are some of the cars unmarked? Seems to me that they should be in clearly marked cars in plain site. That way they act as a deterrent to speeding and "reckless driving". An ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure. When the city of Dallas introduced unmarked police cars, they claimed they were being used to stop road rage. However, these unmarked units were responsible for writing over nine thousand speeding tickets in the next six months. How many citations for road rage related offenses? Just over six hundred.
How many unmarked cars do you think are out there? :roll: I can guarantee you the reason they are working that roadway is complaints from residents on that road and govt officials in that county asking for it. My assignments are done the same way. Quite frankly there are more complaints than manpower. Imagine living in that area and having to deal with this crap EVERY DAY. It's the same as you living in your subdivision and having a-holes scream down your quiet 30mph street at 60mph all day.

Oh BTW, speeding can be included in that magical "road rage" list. And who decided what violations were on the list? I bet it was a friggin politician. Road rage, another catch phrase that has died out :roll:

A DOT study has shown that it's safest when speed limits are set at the speed that eighty-five percent of the traffic on the road is travelling at. However, speed limits on most major roads are set between the 30th and 55th percentile. If that's not to create a revenue generating opportunity, perhaps our resident LEO's can explain why this situation exists.
Depends on what type of roadway you're talking about. I won't even begin to try to explain it because I don't understand it myself. You also have to remember it's not that simple. It's not just OK 85% of people drive down here at 50, so........You also have to factor in a lot of other elements -- people, pedestrians, other traffic, other hazards, etc.

The revenue explanation doesn't make sense. Tickets can't pay enough to support a vehicle, maintenance on that vehicle, salaries for people and their benefits. Believe me I have a hand in budget matters at my dept.
And before the flaming begins, I support our law enforcement. The ones I know and ride with are some of the finest public servants I've met. But they're also some of the craziest riders I've ever ridden with.
Why the disclaimer??????????
 
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
395
Location
Fort Worth
Re: Advice

10-95 said:
Are you so sure of yourself? Does it hurt your ego that much?
Actually, yes, I am that sure of myself. Otherwise, I wouldn't drive like I do. And, no, it doesn't hurt my ego. I just object to having my day interrupted by a possible hypocrite.

1 & 2 may be illegal #3 is not. Then again 1 & 2 depending on the circumstances may NOT be illegal. On duty LEOs are exempt from certain traffic laws!
If you'll read my post, you'll notice that I specified that personal vehicles were being used. Last time I checked, y'all weren't exempt from traffic laws when you're off duty, correct? And please don't use the "It's my job to speed" line. That's like hearing, "You need to quit smoking." from an oncologist that smokes. Kinda destroys his professional credibility.

You DO NOT want to undergo the training we do. You can't pick and choose and only take the fun stuff. So don't even go there.
You're right, I don't want to undergo all of the training that you do. Just the training necessary to bring my driving skills up to par with the average law officer's. I don't think it would be fun to do. I do think that it would take away a common excuse for why average citizens should not be allowed to drive faster. And please, get this straight. I know that you have a dangerous and difficult job to do. However, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. We were discussing the hypocrisy of enforcing traffic laws in the name of safety when they were designed to generate revenue. I wasn't going there, you took us there.

How many unmarked cars do you think are out there?
Doesn't matter. Even one unmarked car proves my point. That car shifts the issue from deterrence to punishment. It doesn't stop the crime from happening, it just punishes it. Monetarily.

Why the disclaimer??????????
No disclaimer. It's just that every time someone criticizes speeding laws, someone else jumps in and claims that they're anti-law enforcement. I figured I'd preempt them and state that I support our LEO's, even if I feel that some of your actions are misguided. I know how dangerous your job can be. I'm one of the nurses that works in the trauma ward putting y'all back together. And on that note, if you honestly believe that speeding substantially creates a dangerous driving environment, then why are we just taking people's money away? Oh, I know that people can be arrested for speeding, but how many actually are? Most are just fined. So rather than that, why not let them do community service in the local emergency room? Wouldn't that make a more substantial impression?

And on that note, I'm out. But I would like to read your impressions of the article linked above. Looks like this guy's got his facts in line. Do you have any hard numbers to dispute him?

Kelly
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2003
Messages
3,875
Location
Round Rock
Hmmmmm

Re: the article, I found it interesting, especially these two snippets:

This is why police and (unmanned) "drone" radar senders are often used at accident, construction, and reduced visibility (dust, fog, snow) sites -- because traffic speeds and accidents decrease when detector users slow and pay closer attention, influencing others to do the same.
followed a bit later by:

Myth #7 - Lower Speed Limits Reduce Average Speeds and Accidents.
:scratch :-P

Anyway, this was discussed at length here, and all I know is that, today, anyway, I took the bike out for an hour, went pretty much the speed limit, or less, and loved life. :chug:
 
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
1,892
Location
Bryan, TX
Sorry I didn't pay that much attention to your post to catch the "personal vehicles" part. If it makes you feel any better my wife says I drive like a farmer(in my POV), always under the limit and looking around. Drives her crazy. And no, LE is not exempt from traffic laws while off-duty. That was not what I was referring to.

You're right, I don't want to undergo all of the training that you do. Just the training necessary to bring my driving skills up to par with the average law officer's.
That comment tells me you might want to *adjust* your driving habits. ;-)

We were discussing the hypocrisy of enforcing traffic laws in the name of safety when they were designed to generate revenue. I wasn't going there, you took us there.
I don't know how many ways I can say this. Tickets do not generate enough revenue to be a money maker Maybe if everyone paid every fine it would be. If everyone just forked over max fine on every charge ever issued it would be. But neither statement is near the truth.

Oh, and if you read some previous posts "I" didn't take this discussion anywhere near there. A previous poster made the comments that took it there.

Walk/drive/run down to your local municipal court. Ask for a breakdown of fines and where the money, if any is collected, goes. THIS IS PUBLIC INFORMATION. Then sit down and crunch some numbers. Don't believe the hype!

Doesn't matter. Even one unmarked car proves my point. That car shifts the issue from deterrence to punishment. It doesn't stop the crime from happening, it just punishes it. Monetarily.
I just don't understand your point of view. 'Nuff said.


As for the article, it was humorous but the guy twists stuff he read and studies he saw to try to prove a point of view. The fact is anyone can use statistics and studies and change it around to suit their needs. Honestly I didn't think much of the article at all.
 

U-Turn

My Email is Dead!
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
24
Location
Oklahoma City, OK
Let me see if I understand the thinking of certain posters to this thread.
Let's say I'm running down some country twolane through several small communities, running in the neighborhood of 80mph and passing cars on the double yellow. If I get pulled over and ticketed or taken to the grey bar hotel, it isn't because I was being a totally stupid prick? Rather, it's mearly a revenue enhancement?

Well, my passion may be riding but I'm a truck-driver(temporarily retired) by trade. Let me ask you. Does that same theory go for me in my big truck?

The same theory could be carried over to other traffic regs. I hear the same argument from certain types of truck-drivers(Rambos) about hours of service regulations. "HOS regs aren't a deterent to driving tired. They're just a revenue enhancement tool".

Let's hear you squids make that arguement the next time a Rambo falls asleep at the wheel and takes out a motorcyclist, God forbid. I'll guarantee you won't do it. You'll be out for blood. So will I.

In a former life, when I was working corrections, I heard the same crap spilling from the lips of inmates. "I'm not here because I broke the law. I'm here because 'the Man' wants to keep me down".

I'm not writing all this to say that I'm perfect and have never violated traffic laws on my bike(on in my truck for that matter). However, when I'm doing wrong and get caught, which happens to me more often than not, I stand up like a man, accept that I was wrong, sign the ticket/warning or take my lecture, depending on the officers mood, and go on with my life. I don't try to throw the blame somewhere else.

It's real simple. If you want to ride at the bikes limits, you have two choices:
1)Head to the track.
2)Be prepared to deal with Johnny Law.

But quit whining about revenue and the unmarked car. That crap's for little boys who don't want to take responsibility for their actions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top