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Hill country jail time

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Hello friends
found this on the fz1 site and Scott asked me to post this
later

Hill Country TX -Sportbike riders targeted
Be careful when riding on SR 337 between Vanderpool and Leakey ,TX.

A riding bud was in the Leakey pokey for 26 hours, snagged last Sunday by a gray, unmarked DPS car, working with the Bandera county Sheriff dept. & DPS B&W Interceptors. He was on an R-6.

He was caught NOT for speeding, but for passing on double yellow...7 times! Sheriff deputies blocked road, waiting for him at bottom of the mountain, with guns drawn!! They claim he was running. Cuffed him, and put him up for the night. The Justice of the Peace was female, and was cerebrating Mothers Day, so he was there until Monday afternoon. Has to go back to court for Reckless driving charge in June.

DPS claims too many incidents / complaints, so a task force is out & about in that area. Trooper told my friend they are planning much more traffic-enforcement activity over the summer.

Watch yerself out there

Michael Hansen
Laporte Tx
 
Thanks for the heads-up. Sounds like the county is short of revenue and is planning on making it up through our wallets.

Highway robbery. :angryfir:
 
wczimmerman said:
Thanks for the heads-up. Sounds like the county is short of revenue and is planning on making it up through our wallets.

Highway robbery. :angryfir:
Click to expand...

Yeah. That's it. Revenue. They're short on revenue. So, they take several cruisers at a cost in excess of $250 per shift per unit, put them on a road specifically built to entice motorcycle riders, and write up about $2000 worth of citations per shift. Sounds like a real profit center to me :roll:
The fact is that traffic ordinances exist to protect you from the stupidity of others. Those that don't understand, without being told, that passing prior to the crest of a hill or in a curve, running through a neighborhood at 70mph, doing wheelies in traffic and other such stupidity is dangerous.
You want to be a squid? Be a squid. You want to speed? Speed. You want to ride stupid? Go ahead. But, you need to accept that there will be times when you will see the blues behind you and LEO will pull out his big ticket book and invite you to the policemans ball.
Take the orriginal post for what it was. A heads-up. If you plan on riding in that area, expect that LEO will be watching you and ride accordingly.
I feel for the guy described in the original post but, I must say, I understand why he spent the night a grey bar hotel. I mean, if I were LEO and I lit up a vehicle for a violation and it took more than a few seconds for the opperator of said vehicle to acknowledge my presence, it would mean a persuit has begun and a felony stop would soon follow.
Sorry but that's just the way it is.
 
I just feel bad that he had to wait until Monday because of the holiday. That's just not right.

I think that if you speed, you are risking a ticket.
On the same note, if you ride a motorcycle you are risking much more and we have all accepted that risk. There are ways to reduce the risk if we choose, but it's just that - a choice.
 
I am worried about something like this happening to me. I try to obey the laws but I have still been pulled over twice on a motorcycle, both for what I consider bogus stops. One instance a cop was coming toward me on my street and then pulled behind me after I pulled into my driveway. Said I was doing 40 which there was no way my little shadow could do 40 in 2nd gear (I had just turned onto my street 50 yards away). Another was disobeying a red light before turning right because I didn't put my foot down and that counts as a rolling stop. Anyways I am worried right now because my bike's current mirrors offer a great view of my elbows, and a cop is going to try to pull me over, and think I am running because I can't see him.

So until I fork over the cash for mirror extension I ride with my left hand on my knee to try to see behind me, and hope I dont get pulled over.
 
Homermacleod has a small mirror mounted on his helmet that gives him a view directly behind him. I originally thought it was going to be a bigger distraction than help, but I too get great views of my elbows on the bike and need a better idea of what's around me.

I think I just might give it a try.
 
wczimmerman said:
Thanks for the heads-up. Sounds like the county is short of revenue and is planning on making it up through our wallets.

Highway robbery. :angryfir:
Click to expand...

Please research where the money (if any is collected) goes on cases before you post this kind of stuff. Ignorance is easy to spread.

This is not a put down -- ignorance simply means you don't know. :-|
 
pdef said:
Said I was doing 40 which there was no way my little shadow could do 40 in 2nd gear (I had just turned onto my street 50 yards away).


Another was disobeying a red light before turning right because I didn't put my foot down and that counts as a rolling stop.
Click to expand...


Your Shadow couldn't do 40 in 2nd? In about 150 feet? I can almost get that speed out of my brother in laws Segway. :-P

Balance stops aren't considered rolling stops. Not only do I do them at work on my work bike, but they are a mandatory part of qualifications for every police motorcycle course I have ever seen. All the law requires is a COMPLETE CESSATION of movement. But if you can't do them correctly ;-) yes, they are a "rolling stop".
 
I think the way to avoid any of this is simple.................. Don't be or ride like a TOOL.

The bad part for this dufus is when his license gets suspended and the charge gets entered on his license and then he tries to renew his insurance. Can you say mega-bucks?????? :eek:
 
Yup solid yellow line in your lane means don't cross it. It's there for a reason. If he crossed it seven times with a cop behind him he was asking for it.

And if he passed seven cars and had to cross the line to do it, he probably passed a lot more than that without a solid yellow. Most folks do the speed limit meaning he was probably over it and the cop just didn't get a radar on him.
 
Actually all of 337 from Leakey to the Bandera County line and maybe farther is double yellow so ease up some. Anyone that has ridden that road has crossed the double yellows because of one reason or another.

My brother who happens to be a Police Chief actually went by there when they arrested that guy on his way back home and thought they were probably a little on the extreme side but thanks to groups riding in mass you might as well forget the hill country for a while. Another group was written up for 62 in a 55 over the weekend as well....don't tell me, none of you are guilty of that either.

He didn't pass anyone but the unmarked police car (according to his post on another board) He probably crossed the lines setting up for curves...(needs to maintain lane discipline no doubt) but the guy wasn't really flying because the car kept up for a little while.
 
10-95 said:
Your Shadow couldn't do 40 in 2nd? In about 150 feet? I can almost get that speed out of my brother in laws Segway. :-P

Balance stops aren't considered rolling stops. Not only do I do them at work on my work bike, but they are a mandatory part of qualifications for every police motorcycle course I have ever seen. All the law requires is a COMPLETE CESSATION of movement. But if you can't do them correctly ;-) yes, they are a "rolling stop".
Click to expand...

The shadow couldn't get to 75 without the engine sounding like it was going to pass out so I put a different rear sprocket on it to make it more highway comfortable. So yeah it could probably do it, but it was not a very fastly accelerating machine. My point was just that there was no way I was going that fast. I think I was just pulled over because I was an obvious college student riding without a helmet (yes I had the sticker, and yes I have since gotten a clue about gear).

In re-reading my post it sounded like a typical anti-LE rant. I am not ANTI-LEOs... I AM, however, anti-CSPD. I have had nothing but bad dealings with them and every time I have been pulled over it has been by them. I interned with the Bryan PD and had nothing but a great time with those guys. I am still considering a career in Law Enforcement and would love to work with a local PD, if I could just skip patrol and go straight to CID. In the meantime, I will tip-toe while in CS and hope I don't accidently endanger the public on my menacing 400lb bike, and avoid the half-ton, speeding, drunk-driving, wreckless driving, trucks that frequent ever street here.
 
:tab I don't offer the following as a justification for any bad behavior of the College Station PD. When I was there, the typical college student was a freaking moron. Most could not drive. Most were only concerned with partying and having a good time. The level of immaturity was a real eye opener to me. I expected better. If I were a cop in that town, I would be really hard pressed to keep a good attitude. Considering the nonstop stream of B.S. they have to deal with, I am really surprised they are not worse. Personally, I never had a bad run in with them in my five years in town. Maybe I was just lucky? I ride there quite often and have not had any probelms with them in the five years I've been riding. Maybe it's all the luggage I always have on the bike? I find that most times, LEO are like Wasps. If you don't give them a reason to sting you, they tend to leave you alone. But when they do sting you, it generally hurts! Occasionally, you will get stung no matter what you are doing. Life in general seems that way sometimes :scratch

Adios,
 
This Was David out of the TSBA San Antonio Chapter. You can read his actual post as follows:

On 05/09 (Sunday), I was arrested on 337 between Vanderpol and Leaky and spent 26hrs in jail! DPS was doing some type of operation in the area to catch fast bikers on the mountain. They had a unmarked car driving up and down the mountain when I passed it going the same direction. I never looked back, he had no siren, just lights, I didn't know he was there following me. The ground was a little wet so I wasn't pushing it and he was a able to keep up intil I reached the top and then it dried out. I then pushed it and pulled away. When I reached the bottom I stopped to wait for John and about 20 seconds later the unmarked car came from behind me and a marked DPS came from the front. They stopped and pulled thier weapons. Two more Sheriff Trucks showed up within seconds and I was in cuffs. They thought I was trying to run. Unless you plan on not passing a soul, staying within thin the law 100% of the time like or members do anyway. STAY AWAY FROM THE LEAKY AREA. I can say they treated me very nice in the city jail. They say there have been to many motocycle accidents this year.
 
pdef said:
I interned with the Bryan PD and had nothing but a great time with those guys. I am still considering a career in Law Enforcement and would love to work with a local PD, if I could just skip patrol and go straight to CID.
Click to expand...

I've done the CID deal. Made it three years before the stress almost killed me. Wasn't the work load, it was the deals made behind my back.

If it tells you anything ......... I was offerred a scholarship to college to major in engineering. If I knew what I do now I would have gone. Get a good civilian job with benefits and pay.

Can't say I know too many guys in CSPD, just the motor guys. They are actually a very fun crowd. You just have to understand business is business. A whole bunch of folks say that when I get to work I take my heart out and put it up until quitting time. Sometimes you just have to be that way.
 
I'd take what the guy posted with a grain of salt. Even the unmarked cars DPS works out of have sirens and deck/grille lights. I don't see them initiating a chase without using them. FWIW if they are not used an evading charge wouldn't stick and policy wouldn't allow it.

The deal about him not going too fast because the car kept up had me laughing. Not to boast but I have never lost a chase to a motorcycle. Never. Not even when we used to drive those big-*** boat looking Crown Vics.
 
:tab Maybe I am just clueless, but if the guy knew the car had lights and that it was keeping up with him, how stupid can he be not to suspect it is a cop?! And then to pull away on the straights?! No wonder they nabbed him for evading. What he really seems to need is a swift kick in the butt and a good rap on the noggin! Then there is the whole issue of the tags being out by quit a bit of time... This guy's side of the story sounds like he's making himself out to be a victim of the LEO when in reality he is a victim of his own stupidity.

:tab Someone correct me if I am wrong here, but last I heard, a properly setup car can easily corner faster than a motorcycle. Something to do with the ability to handle higher lateral g's? I'm not really referring to race or sports cars that generate aerodynamic downforce to increase traction, just a typical auto.

Adios,
 
Scott,

Even cars that can carry the G's at the apex will lose so much time in acceleration and braking that the bikes will walk away from them.


10-95,

You are no doubt correct in chasing a lot of riders. That said, I could lap a Police Interceptor Crown Vic at TWS and it wouldn't take many laps either...

The thing is that I don't haul *** around the streets and have no desire to. My ***** with the whole public safety deal is that people haul *** through neighborhoods ALL the time, ignore stop signs, fail to yield (this one is out of hand) and a host of others with no penalty unless they cause an accident, then they lie and deny. The crackdown is out on the speed transition areas on the main roads in and out of town because it's EASIER to write that ticket. A lot of it IS about Revenue generation IMO.

I do believe that the more the LE community does to crack down on the bikes the more likely the guys, that don't have a lot to lose monetarily, will run. Nobody minds (well not too much) paying for a speeding ticket when caught fair and square...that's the game, you play, you pay but when it is likely to turn into a racing ticket or jail ride because you have 5 guys riding together at 85 mph, the guys will run, figuring some will get away and they will go to jail anyway.

The lesson for most is to stay cool on the street and get more into the touring side of our sport and do some track days to satisfy the speed side besides one track day will let you know real quick that your not as fast as you think you are.

Before anyone thinks it's some guy that has a bunch of tickets...I've taken defensive driving to get out of a 65 in a 55 in the last 10 years...Knock on wood, Knock on wood. To save fuel, I generally set the cruise at 58-65 in the Powerstroke. Driving less than an hour on 95% of most trips doesn't warrant me sweating 2-5 minutes.


We had a pursuit a month ago in Victoria where at least 2 city police, 2 Trooper units (3 troopers) were chasing a HD Sportster for speeding. The DPS car with two troopers hit a minivan...caused injuries and all that. IMO they had a little video on the guy already, don't chase his dumb ***. He wasn't a danger to society like some Serial Rapist or something. The EGO got the best of them and "he ain't getting away from us" stepped in. This guy is around 23 had wrecked the bike a couple of months earlier doing the same thing and was caught, this time he had no helmet (clear ID), so why not let him go, take the video to the judge, issue a warrant, arrest his *** later that evening when he was celebrating with his friends and whooping it up about getting away. It was a waste of valuable resources and put the officers and motorist at unneccesary risk IMO.

I don't know the guy that we started this discussion about but hopefully we'll get everyone to ride just a little bit slower and do a little more site seeing.
 
Scott, I guess you would just have to know David. He is not the type of guy to run from the cops. He and his Dad Ivan are both great guys. I personally do not think that he ran. Things get so twisted up when read on the forums. This is my take on the situation. I believe that David was probably running on the mountain and wanted to go at his pace. He probably passed the cars on the straights between the 1st and second mountain. He probably passed the unmarked car and was focused on just getting around cars without really looking at the cars to see what there were. I mean after all, isn't that why they are unmarked? to hide in unsuspecting traffic? Anyhow, I almost never look back when I am in a twisty portion of road. Especially roads like 337. David probably then went to the bottom of the 2nd mountain and waited just like we always do for the other guys to catch up. At that time, the marked cars pulled up and then the unmarked car with lights on probably pulled up and he probably realised at that moment that he had passed an unmarked car. That is the conclusion that I come to when I read his story.
I also remember correctly that you, yourself passed on that very same road. Remember, the blue and white leathers passing you, then the blue and neon flame leathers, then a BMW that nearly took out your group...then you passed around the rest area...and yes it is still dbl yellow. The same goes in Arkansas. I am willing to be that you made a few passes out there cause **** near the whole state is dbl yellow...lol. I am not trying to single you out, I am just saying that we all seem to think that we are the safer rider. And that is just plain rediculous. I am just saying that we make what we assume safe risks while riding and sometimes we get bit in the ***. True, some people haul ***...some ride slow, some ride wheelies on the freeways. Jerry Seinfeld said it best...
How come someone going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a moron?
 
Howdy,

:tab I did not intend to imply that I never pass on the double yellow, I do. The ride you are referring to when I did pass was on one of the long straights, NOT at the overlook. When I do pass, I don't blow around people at WFO. I make sure they know I am there and that I am coming. I don't pass in, or going into a corner. If I get busted for it, I certainly am not going to whine about it. Same for speeding. ;-)

:tab If the guy really truly did not know someone was chasing him, meaning he did not intend to knowingly run, then I am amazed. This is not to say I don't believe it could be true, I am just really amazed that he would be running through that area and never check his mirrors!? I'm not talking about a long staring into the mirrors, just the quick check that takes only an instant. Doesn't everyone else do this fairly regularly?

Adios,
 
Tourmeister said:
Howdy,

...This is not to say I don't believe it could be true, I am just really amazed that he would be running through that area and never check his mirrors!? I'm not talking about a long staring into the mirrors, just the quick check that takes only an instant. Doesn't everyone else do this fairly regularly?
Click to expand...

Just speaking for myself, but when I ride alone I don't check the mirrors that often, particularly if my attention is focused on a stretch of technical road such as what you'll find in the Hill Country. I'm far more concerned about what's in front of me than what's behind me.

It sounds like this guy deserved his ticket, but whether or not he deserved the treatment he received is all a matter of opinion, and since I have no first-hand knowledge of what transpired I won't speculate about it. However, if you want to ride fast on public roads, you have to accept that a run-in with the law is something you'll probably have to deal with sooner or later.

Do I ride fast? Yes; sometimes. I try not to be stupid about it, or hit triple-digit speeds, but someday I realize I might be stopped and ticketed. It'll suck and I'll be a little angry, but the bottom line is that I will have earned it. (and I probably won't post about it either. ;-) ) The one thought that always slows me down whenever the temptation to go fast starts to overcome me is this: Will I be putting anybody else's life in jeapardy? I can accept having to suffer the consequences of my own behavior, but I never want someone else to suffer for it.
_______________________

Hey Kenny,

Thanks for giving us your thoughts on this and other law enforcement-related topics. In my experience, not too many LEO's like to talk very much about these things with us "civilians". Getting your no-BS insight on such matters can be a real eye-opener on what you do (and have to deal with) in your work.
 
Tourmeister said:
Someone correct me if I am wrong here, but last I heard, a properly setup car can easily corner faster than a motorcycle. Something to do with the ability to handle higher lateral g's? I'm not really referring to race or sports cars that generate aerodynamic downforce to increase traction, just a typical auto.

Adios,
Click to expand...

Correct. I didn't beleive it myself at first when my friend told me, but I looked up a few famous race tracks and lap times. Cars are faster.
 
02Silver said:
10-95,

You are no doubt correct in chasing a lot of riders. That said, I could lap a Police Interceptor Crown Vic at TWS and it wouldn't take many laps either...
Click to expand...

The street is not TWS. The street has gravel, sharp turns, traffic and other obstacles. Compare apples to apples. Personal experience -- I'll take a car over a bike for speed anyday.

As far as chasing someone goes many depts have gone to the no chase policy. We tried it for a while. IT DOESN'T WORK. Word gets out and people won't stop. After those in charge realize that the policies change again. Your thoughts are nice but not practical.

I'll agree there are some situations that are carried too far and some people are in positions of "power" that shouldn't be. I'm the first to say that. But if you do something contrary to law you should suck it up and take it like a man. If you're not guilty that's what the courts are for.

Maybe this guy was running and maybe he wasn't. Maybe he DIDN'T check his mirrors and never knew the car was behind him. When everything else is cleared away if he wasn't riding the way he did he wouldn't have spent the night in the pokey and no one here would be discussing this. Fact is he is responsible for the whole thing -- no matter who is "right or wrong".
 
...am I still the only one who thinks that spending more time than necessary behind bars was out of line simply because there wasn't someone available to hear the case?

I have no comment on him getting thrown in, but what about swift justice? I would hate to be stuck just because it was a holiday weekend and people were on vacation.
 
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