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Honda CRF300L and Rally and LS

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Wow Jarrett, those are great references. I really appreciate it!

It had 177 miles on it. Tires, along with the rest of the bike, are pretty much new. PO rode it 3 times, determined he couldn't find enough dirt roads in the area (Del Rio) and decided to sell. Super nice guy -- i made a new friend in the deal.

He said it had ABS, i failed to verify, and it's not. One could say the Dummy at Kent Powersports duped the PO when he bought it there. One could also say I'm a dummy for not verifying when I bought. It's still a great bike and some people still prefer no ABS.
 
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I'm anxious to see what you think if you get the suspension upgrades. I noticed the company Jarrett posted also sells a ecu tuner and exhaust kit. I wonder how that improves things.
 
synthlegend said:
I'm anxious to see what you think if you get the suspension upgrades. I noticed the company Jarrett posted also sells a ecu tuner and exhaust kit. I wonder how that improves things.
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Jarrett, did you do the ECU tuner and/or change exhaust on yours?
 
randypower said:
Jarrett, did you do the ECU tuner and/or change exhaust on yours?
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No, I'm not sure if that was available when I had mine or not.

Most of the stuff I read at the time said the kits just made the bike louder, not more powerful.

I rode all afternoon last Sunday with a guy on a CRF250L Rally. I noticed he was doing 70 mph with peaks of 75 mph on the faster roads.

On the smaller roads, he kept up just fine.
 
I ride with a guy on one a few years ago when I was still on a DR650. We did a gravel road drag race. It was neck and neck up to about 60, then I pulled away. He was a bit smaller of a guy than I am, though, and had done a number of performance mods to the rally. He didn't specify what mods.

I'd still really like to see a 450L based rally model. Preferably with real saddle tanks rather than just plastic bits. It wouldn't really be in the same category due to price, performance and service intervals.
 
synthlegend said:
So the crf300 rally will be around 6k or so. The general consensus here and on just about everything I've read or watched is that it needs at the minimum a rear shock/spring upgrade. So that will cost you about 1k. I'm wondering how bout a used CRF450L? Add the larger gas tank(numerous ones available) and a windscreen. Might come out for not much more. I know the 450 has a more vigorous maintenance schedule, but most of the adv riders who adapted one say they have had no problems extending intervals. Thoughts?
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Sorry i failed to reply to this before.

The 450 has such a terrible maintenance schedule, it was immediately out of consideration for me. How long have done people extended the intervals to? If it's anything below 5k miles, i still wouldn't be excited. The 250s and (probably) 300s are 8k miles.. very nice.
 
synthlegend said:
I'm anxious to see what you think if you get the suspension upgrades. I noticed the company Jarrett posted also sells a ecu tuner and exhaust kit. I wonder how that improves things.
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I did not find the ECU tuner you mentioned... Only one for the 450.

Man, i can't wait to have the time and weather for a long ride. I'm super frustrated having to wait! I should get in gear and at least wire up the heated vest pigtail, phone mount, and a USB outlet.
 
randypower said:
Sorry i failed to reply to this before.

The 450 has such a terrible maintenance schedule, it was immediately out of consideration for me. How long have done people extended the intervals to? If it's anything below 5k miles, i still wouldn't be excited. The 250s and (probably) 300s are 8k miles.. very nice.
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I may be unusual in this, but I tend to change my oil more frequently than recommended on my long service interval bikes. My Africa Twin has an 8k mile interval, but I change at 4k miles. My DR650s had a 3k mile interval, but I changed at 1500. I don't mind the "expense" because I use cheap Rotella T6.

I'd probably stretch the intervals on a race type engine to 1500 miles for normal dual sport use. The short recommendations usually assume you're racing it. I might also use "better" oil since they only hold about a quart of it anyway.
 
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randypower said:
I did not find the ECU tuner you mentioned... Only one for the 450.

Man, i can't wait to have the time and weather for a long ride. I'm super frustrated having to wait! I should get in gear and at least wire up the heated vest pigtail, phone mount, and a USB outlet.
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I guess injection tuner was more appropriate term

www.crfsonly.com

CRF250L Rally'17-20 - EJK Fuel Injection Controller

NOTE: For this product to ship to California addresses a signed waiver form for off-road use only is required. Comes pre-programmed for the best results Load Based Tuning takes into account RATE, T...
www.crfsonly.com www.crfsonly.com
 
randypower said:
Sorry i failed to reply to this before.

The 450 has such a terrible maintenance schedule, it was immediately out of consideration for me. How long have done people extended the intervals to? If it's anything below 5k miles, i still wouldn't be excited. The 250s and (probably) 300s are 8k miles.. very nice.
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Just me I guess but no way am I going 8000 miles! I change the adv bike at 3000 miles, I think it's suggested at 6000. Dirt bike at 10 hours, I believe it is recommended at 20. Sooner if I have a strenuous ride, lot of clutch use equals heat. And I am probably stupid but I use what's supposed to be good oil! Heck dirt bike only holds 1 quart.
 
woodsguy said:
Just me I guess but no way am I going 8000 miles! I change the adv bike at 3000 miles, I think it's suggested at 6000. Dirt bike at 10 hours, I believe it is recommended at 20. Sooner if I have a strenuous ride, lot of clutch use equals heat. And I am probably stupid but I use what's supposed to be good oil! Heck dirt bike only holds 1 quart.
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Yeah, i don't ever push to the limit on oil change intervals either. But a high manufacturer limit gives flexibility.

I usually change oil before and after a big ride and don't usually need to for all the little day rides.

If they say 8,000 miles on good oil, why wouldn't you trust them? Honda's reputation for reliability was surely considered.
 
randypower said:
If they say 8,000 miles on good oil, why wouldn't you trust them? Honda's reputation for reliability was surely considered.
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Just old school thinking, 8000 miles is a long ways. For some folks that might be once every 2 years. run it 8000 miles as an adv bike and then send it off to be analyzed. Then we'll know!
 
Jarrett said:
Why would we doubt the manufacturer's recommendation of oil change timing?

Seems like they know a lot more about the internals of these engines than we do.
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randypower said:
Yeah, i don't ever push to the limit on oil change intervals either. But a high manufacturer limit gives flexibility.

I usually change oil before and after a big ride and don't usually need to for all the little day rides.

If they say 8,000 miles on good oil, why wouldn't you trust them? Honda's reputation for reliability was surely considered.
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The manufacture engineers use some design parameters of how long things should last. The automobile industry used to base all of their design principals on 100,000 miles. So all of the sizing of components and maintenance recommendations and such was calculated to get them to that 100,000 mile mark. This is why most manufactures offer a warranty up to 100,000 miles. We all know that most automobiles can exceed this with proper preventative maintenance and repairing failed items properly. One study of cars that remained on the road to 200,000 miles essentially trouble free found that the one thing in common among the vehicles was the owner never missed an oil change and likely did most of them early. I have taken several automobiles over 300,000 miles without an oil related failure or internal engine issue. I have mostly changed the oil on these at 3,000 with conventional and 5,000 with synthetic. My wife's current Honda is the first experiment with following the onboard computer telling me when to change the oil. It is currently at around 260,000.

Like @woodsguy said you could get an oil analysis done, but by the time you catch a sample send it to the lab and get results it is likely easier to just change it. There are lots of factors on a motorcycle that can lead to oil contamination. The use of the bike and environment it is ridden and stored in come into play.
 
bwdmax said:
The manufacture engineers use some design parameters of how long things should last. The automobile industry used to base all of their design principals on 100,000 miles. So all of the sizing of components and maintenance recommendations and such was calculated to get them to that 100,000 mile mark. This is why most manufactures offer a warranty up to 100,000 miles. We all know that most automobiles can exceed this with proper preventative maintenance and repairing failed items properly. One study of cars that remained on the road to 200,000 miles essentially trouble free found that the one thing in common among the vehicles was the owner never missed an oil change and likely did most of them early. I have taken several automobiles over 300,000 miles without an oil related failure or internal engine issue. I have mostly changed the oil on these at 3,000 with conventional and 5,000 with synthetic. My wife's current Honda is the first experiment with following the onboard computer telling me when to change the oil. It is currently at around 260,000.

Like @woodsguy said you could get an oil analysis done, but by the time you catch a sample send it to the lab and get results it is likely easier to just change it. There are lots of factors on a motorcycle that can lead to oil contamination. The use of the bike and environment it is ridden and stored in come into play.
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Additionally...manufacturers make assumptions as to how the bike will be ridden.

High performance XC / Enduro platform that happens to have plates is likely to be used in some tough off road riding that is close to race type use in terms of rpm and heat. That platform needs frequent oil changes for that use but if you bought it to ride a mix of street and gravel dirt roads all the time, you could probably double or triple the OCI.

Conversely, ride your large ADV bike like a small bike with a lot of clutch work and high RPMs through tough terrain and you'd be outside the parameters the engineers were expecting when they established 8K OCI and you'd be smart to adjust to something less.

Point being, I view the manufacturers OCI as a recommendation based on expected use and I adjust based on what I actually use it for.
 
@randypower what are your impressions so far? I'm waiting to see some U.S. reviews of the 300 Rally and of course awaiting Kawasaki to make their big reveal at the end of the month.
 
synthlegend said:
@randypower what are your impressions so far? I'm waiting to see some U.S. reviews of the 300 Rally and of course awaiting Kawasaki to make their big reveal at the end of the month.
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So far, my impressions are that i need to get out and ride the thing! [emoji1787] My schedule and weather haven't aligned and won't for another week or two. I've had a lot of travel.

In the meantime, I've been watching and reading a lot from others' experiences. It seems that the highway performance of the CRF250L may be about the same as my trusty XT. There are a few mods that can help a little. I'm keeping my money down on the CRF300L Rally for now, but yeah i need to ride and get my own experience.
 
randypower said:
So far, my impressions are that i need to get out and ride the thing! [emoji1787] My schedule and weather haven't aligned and won't for another week or two. I've had a lot of travel.

In the meantime, I've been watching and reading a lot from others' experiences. It seems that the highway performance of the CRF250L may be about the same as my trusty XT. There are a few mods that can help a little. I'm keeping my money down on the CRF300L Rally for now, but yeah i need to ride and get my own experience.
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Ahhh ok. I watch a lot of videos as well on the 250. Consensus is it's a super dependable, no maintenance kinda bike. Adequately powered for trails and dirt, but not so much for highway. Needs a suspension upgrade at least in the rear. I'm interested in the 300 because of the almost 10hp increase, improved gearing and relatively light weight. I'm not much of a highway rider so I don't care so much about top speed bursts. If it will do 65 comfortably I'm good.
 
synthlegend said:
Ahhh ok. I watch a lot of videos as well on the 250. Consensus is it's a super dependable, no maintenance kinda bike. Adequately powered for trails and dirt, but not so much for highway. Needs a suspension upgrade at least in the rear. I'm interested in the 300 because of the almost 10hp increase, improved gearing and relatively light weight. I'm not much of a highway rider so I don't care so much about top speed bursts. If it will do 65 comfortably I'm good.
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The 250L will do 65mph comfortably, I suppose, depending on your definition of the word. Again, I haven't spent much time there yet. Jarrett may have more input at this point on that topic. My expectation is it will be fine (for me) on the highway at 70 (maybe 75) mph, but during a long climb and/or uphill, that could drop maybe 10 mph.

The little bit of riding around my neighborhood and couple of acres is that it feels lightweight with comfortable ergos. The bike fits me very well, and i don't anticipate having to do lots of work (bar risers, new seat, moved pegs) to be physically comfortable.

One thing, though.. the jury is still out on the amount of HP increase on the 300. Honda hasn't announced HP for the US models, but speculation is it will be like the Euro version at 27hp IIRC. With the 250L putting out ~24, it won't be a 10 hp increase... More like 10%.
 
randypower said:
The 250L will do 65mph comfortably, I suppose, depending on your definition of the word. Again, I haven't spent much time there yet. Jarrett may have more input at this point on that topic. My expectation is it will be fine (for me) on the highway at 70 (maybe 75) mph, but during a long climb and/or uphill, that could drop maybe 10 mph.

The little bit of riding around my neighborhood and couple of acres is that it feels lightweight with comfortable ergos. The bike fits me very well, and i don't anticipate having to do lots of work (bar risers, new seat, moved pegs) to be physically comfortable.

One thing, though.. the jury is still out on the amount of HP increase on the 300. Honda hasn't announced HP for the US models, but speculation is it will be like the Euro version at 27hp IIRC. With the 250L putting out ~24, it won't be a 10 hp increase... More like 10%.
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Hmmmm... I keep seeing 31hp on the web. Where's that coming from?
 
synthlegend said:
Hmmmm... I keep seeing 31hp on the web. Where's that coming from?
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That's what they announced for the Thailand model.

There's speculation about why the difference from 31 to 27 that they announced for Europe. Maybe it's at the crank vs. at the wheel. Maybe it's down due to Euro standards. If the latter, then maybe the 31 could be reclaimed by replacing the ECU (or injector controller) with the Thai version or reprogramming the US one.

edit: also note the 250L went from 22.8 hp to 24.4 beginning with the 2017 models (both L and Rally). This makes things like top speed reports more challenging to understand. And many top speed run videos are by people who've changed the gearing, which makes it even harder.
 
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