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Long Overdue Wrenching on Wilbur

Squeaky

2
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
13,341
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213
Location
Plantersville
First Name
Rebecca
Last Name
Reed
I was lucky to have people helping with mechanicals (thanks Javi and John!), offering up shop space and tools (thanks Javi and Tom!) and taking pictures and keeping me company (thanks Deb!). It was a great day in the garage.

We washed the bikes :sun:

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Then we got Deb's SV up on the lift first, since her to do list was much shorter than my own. I guess Javi knows me better than I thought, because his reasoning was "if you don't finish yours today, it can stay on the lift so we can finish tomorrow".

Her tank is held aloft by a very convenient bar. We got the air filter cleaned and oiled, her oil changed, and then pulled her spark plugs.

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The plugs were the main reason for her visit to the garage. The SV has been starting and running fine except for a somewhat random and occasional stalling. Some web searches told her the plugs could be the issue, and that it's a fairly common one.

Someone want to "read" her plugs for us? :giveup:

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With the SV done but for the re-insertion of the air filter (it was still too wet) we took it down off the lift and got the Strom loaded. First step was just taking off the fairings, belly pan, and crash bars. The last time I took the crash bars off, the right one was cracked but Biwwy welded it on the spot for me.

Well guess what - this time the left one was cracked, and in a similar location. The base area that has the bolt hole had cracked off. Uh oh. A quick run a few doors down to a machine shop in the same complex, and Javi had me welded back in one piece. Whew! (both bars need to be run over with a wire wheel and then re-painted)

Oh, and the bolt holding the left and right side bars was missing. Must have rattled off somewhere since February when I remember seeing it last, so I'll be heading to the hardware store to find a replacement soon.

Got Wilbur Nekkid... :trust:

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John fired up the laptop for instructions and web resources while Deb made quick work of my oil and filter change. I cleaned out my air filter and installed the gasket I'd had to order because it was missing the last time I'd changed the filter.

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Is it possible for an ugly bike to get even uglier? :lol2:

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Wanna read mine? :mrgreen:

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The valve clearances. Ugh. This is the part of the job I was dreading, and it didn't let me down. Just having the bike's motor open like that, vulnerable and exposed, makes me nervous. Getting your head into the bike far enough to see where you've cranked the motor is hard but not impossible. What the instructions DIDN'T say was that (according to Chris "The Big Spank Daddy") I have a 180-degre flip (?name), and that while the R/T indicator is clearly lined up in the window, it might just be halfway there. When I'd lined it up, not a single feeler gauge would go in, not even the thinnest of the complete set.

With this new knowledge acquired, I turned it around until the R/T lined up again. I knew the clearances were on the tight side last time I'd peeked, so I started with the gauge for the minimum clearance, .004. It fit under one of the two intakes. Uh oh. The other was a .003 - and I've been warned that leaving it at just shy of clearance is a better move than opening it up and chancing something major going wrong. This was much-needed advice, and I wasn't going to chance it. On the exhaust side, the minimum clearance is .008 and both came in at .007 - good enough for me. Quick, let's button him back up before that Murphy guy gets here with all his 'laws'. :zen:

Throttle body sync. Paging mister throttle body sync... :wary:

Checking for placement of the TwinMax hoses.

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These are not easy. I had every tool at my fingertips, and it was still tough. I had the 8" offset needle nose, and 8" straight needle nose, and 8" offset needle nose a weird hose-puller-looking bend on the end! It came down to finding whose hands could actually get in there at that angle while another held the tank out of the way and yet a third held the flashlight on the area. THIS is why it's so $$$ at the bike shops - if my hourly was the same as theirs, I'd have to charge $600 for the day of work. For me, there's no option - I will have to endure the mechanical labor and learn what I'm doing if I'm going to afford this sport/hobby/therapy machine of mine. Friends like Javi that make this possible are invaluable. :bow:

In the end, we got both rubber caps off and the TM tubes on. The result was a ripped cap, which the bike cannot be run without. More on that later. :twitch:

The TB sync had me baffled at first. As instructed, I zero'd it out after attaching the lines but before the bike was started. We started the bike, adjusted it to "fast idle", and let it warm up to three bars on the temp gauge per the tech document Chuck "Gilk51" provided almost a year ago when this was supposed to be done. :shrug:

I kept the sensitivity low so we could start to dial it in, turn up the sensitivity, rinse and repeat. At low sensitivity, it didn't really move. It looked spot-on at zero. As we raised the sensitivity, the needle didn't really begin to move until we were close to max. Once we found them, we adjusted the TB screws (VERY difficult to get to without burning your hand) until it was close to zero. Just to see if we could get closer, we went for one more twist - but we retracted that and went back to where we were.

Max and Spank came with us to 'hang out'. They're both trying to kiss up to me in an effort to reserve a seat on the bike for my upcoming trip to Alabama. Not sure there's room for both of them. :ponder:

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Javi came over to help me figure out how to get the brake pads out, and why we were having trouble getting the new brake pads to go back in. As it turns out, the left side and right side pads have different part numbers. I'd gotten two of the same part number. In essence, I was trying to give myself two left feet. :doh: The old pads still have life left in them, so they went back in until I get the right replacements.

{anyone need a set of left-side EBC HH pads?}

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Can't start the bike back up until we gets the rubber caps back on the tubing ends. AutoZOne here we come. :yawn:

While there, I picked up a bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil that was highly recommended by Chris over the phone while reviewing my valve clearances. For those who might be interested, I found a page where you can request a free sample. They had a package of rubber caps in different sizes, and made long so you could cut what you needed down to size. $3. Not a horrible mistake.

We got back, fit the new cap, and started the bike. The idle was high, but we adjusted it back down to ~1300 RPM and topped off the oil level. By this time we were all in need of a break so we went outside to play for a bit.

Man, that shiny chopper goes fast! :rider:

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Although not my style, the bike was gorgeous.

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John packed up his bikes and headed out, and Mike took the chopper home. We decided it was worth taking a few minutes to install my stanless brake lines before putting calling it a night. He has a pneumatic bleeder that worked so fast, it was astounding. I've previously bled brakes both by hand and with a little hand pump, and this certainly tops them all.

Tank, fairings, belly, nose piece, crash bars, seat. Wow, it goes back together much easier when you really just want to be DONE!

The internet is my log book. Major maintenance done @ 44556, 9/22/07.

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After letting it run a few minutes, it needed more oil to finish topping it off, and a quick adjustment of the idle. Javi took it for a spin around the block, and 'tested' my brakes for me quite a few times. He seemed pleased with "the tractor".

HUGE thanks again to everone, and especially Javi and his garage True Methodz. He's truly a class act. :clap:
 
With this new knowledge acquired, I turned it around until the R/T lined up again. I knew the clearances were on the tight side last time I'd peeked, so I started with the gauge for the minimum clearance, .004. It fit under one of the two intakes. Uh oh. The other was a .003 - and I've been warned that leaving it at just shy of clearance is a better move than opening it up and chancing something major going wrong. This was much-needed advice, and I wasn't going to chance it. On the exhaust side, the minimum clearance is .008 and both came in at .007 - good enough for me.

I have read this several times, and I trust that you trust that everything was done to spec.... BUT - I have always been told that valve clearences set less than minimum specs greatly increase the chance of burning a valve. Maybe it's just the way you wrote it up - your definition of minimums but I read this as everything is too tight.

Just curious.....
 
I have read this several times, and I trust that you trust that everything was done to spec.... BUT - I have always been told that valve clearences set less than minimum specs greatly increase the chance of burning a valve. Maybe it's just the way you wrote it up - your definition of minimums but I read this as everything is too tight.

Just curious.....

I was concerned when I read that part, too. I don't know how high that bike revs, but running tight valves can be disastrous on a 15k-rpm sportbike. And they'll only get tighter between now and the next check.

The first thing I did when I acquired the ZRex a few months ago was to open it up and make sure the first check had been done. Everything was in the exact middle of spec, so it had apparently had been. It took a little time, but I've slept well every night since.

I did a valve check on the ZX7R back when it was still cold outside. It needed shims:

 
Yes, you read that right - it's too tight. BUT - it's not THAT tight and the bike redlines at 9500 RPM - and I almost never get above 7500 (and that's the spirited sections).
 
.003" when the spec is .004" is 25% to tight

To loose is better - the momentary contact when seated helps draw the heat away from the valve - to tight lowers the duration of contact with the seat (but will give better performance)

It's a Suzuki so it's probably not a huge problem that can be corrected next time you got time to fiddle around with it
 
It's a Suzuki so it's probably not a huge problem that can be corrected next time you got time to fiddle around with it

you mean i have to do all that again? :giveup:
 
Remember - free advice is, well free (If I were you I'd see what Bill thinks)

I wouldn't worry about it for your trip but yeah - when you get a chance, if it was me, I'd get it adjusted

Hey look on the bright side - next time you get to mess with the cam shafts and shims and buckets (are these shim under bucket or shim under bucket?)
 
Yes, you read that right - it's too tight. BUT - it's not THAT tight and the bike redlines at 9500 RPM - and I almost never get above 7500 (and that's the spirited sections).

I'm not sure where you got your info but too tight is too tight. Not good!

You should have just pulled the camshafts while you were in there, dropped in the correct-size shims, and had some peace-of-mind. Assuming you had the right tools, you should have just done that. Now you have to go back in there and fix things or run the risk of damaging the engine. Its funny how the mind works sometimes (including mine). How the fear of the unknown can make us procrastinate and somehow brainwash us into thinking everything will be OK, even when its clearly not. The rpms don't mean squat. Its the heat (due to a lean condition) thats going to damage the valves and valve seats. Eventually it will start smoking, then you will know what you should have done.

Now go back in there and get it done right (or have someone else do it). You will be glad you did and will be proud of yourself for dong it! Good luck! :clap:

Edit: I just looked at your plugs and they look OK now (no lean condition). Not sure how far your Alabama trip will be but it would be a good idea to get this done within the next several thousand miles. The plugs on the SV look nasty, though.

Dave
 
Debbie, those plugs look much better than the last ones. I still say it is jetted to rich.

As for the V-Strom valve clearance. I was the one who recommended they leave it be. Take no offense here Rebecca, but they did not even know how to find TDC on the engine to check the valves. With no experience at all, they are now going to attempt pulling the cams and reinstall them:eek2:

Knowing how Rebecca rides and that the bike is not a 12G screamer, I felt that discretion was needed in this case. As I knew it, she also had no shims. Also, too great of valve clearance causes burned valves. To small a clearance yields better scavenging because of the increase in valve over lap. Thus keeping the exhaust temps down. Check your cam card, you'll see that a high performance cam has more duration as well as over lap timing.

Had she the experience and unlimited resources I would have told her to do "the right thing". For now I feel the V-Strom is fine and will run another 40K+.
 
Four thousanth and 8 thousanth is the loosist valve lash I have ever seen on a jap bike most of my honda's were 2 and 4 . 3 and 7 should be good for another 40 K without any issues . SEYA

And Deb all you need is a dew rag and you would be just right for the chopper . SEYA
 
For now I feel the V-Strom is fine and will run another 40K+.

I doubt that. She needs to follow through and fix this issue soon. No telling how long its been like this already. If for nothing else, do it for the next owner. They might be a fellow TWT member.

You guys probably made the right call considering the help you had. Normally, all you need to do is line up a couple marks to find TDC. If your help couldn't even do that, I would've buttoned it up also.
 
Also, too great of valve clearance causes burned valves.

At the risk of ruining a very nice "report" (Thanks for the effort Squeaky) the above line is diametrically opposed to everything I've ever been taught about valve clearances.

I'm not a mechanic (but I do my own service work) so I'll stop my garage-chair quarterbacking but the bottom line is.... is it in spec??? NO - then put it there as soon as reasonably possible.
 
If Wilbur was mine, I would feel better about loosening up the valve clearance in the near future. I agree w/ Spank Daddy on leaving it alone since you didn't have a selection of replacement shims on hand. It will also be easier next time 'cause you been there b4. Question, have the valves ever been adjusted before? If not then I won't worry too much if I go past the due date on mine, according to the "book" you should be doing it for the third time. RH
 
At the risk of ruining a very nice "report" (Thanks for the effort Squeaky) the above line is diametrically opposed to everything I've ever been taught about valve clearances.

Grasshopper... this is why you don't bring a laptop to a bike wrenching session. Bring a factory service manual, some good/correct tools, plenty of leed time, and someone who has been there before (if possible/available). If not, call your dealer and bring your wallet. :rofl:

Dave
 
Something was knawing on my brain last night when I was reading the thread.... and it finally worked itself into a question today! Squeaky, did you ride your bike over to the shop, or carry it in a truck or on a trailer? All of the bikes I have worked on require a completely cold engine before measuring clearance. If you rode the bike over that morning, then your numbers may not be valid. My VFR even had a requirement that the ambient temperature could not be above 95 F for several hours before measuring clearance. Thermal expansion of valve train components is the issue. You may need to open Wilbur up again and re-measure him stone cold. Just a thought, and of course free advice is free advice.
 
I rode over at about 10am, and we got to my valves around six hours later. It was cold to the touch.
 
Javi came over to help me figure out how to get the brake pads out, and why we were having trouble getting the new brake pads to go back in. As it turns out, the left side and right side pads have different part numbers. I'd gotten two of the same part number. In essence, I was trying to give myself two left feet. :doh: The old pads still have life left in them, so they went back in until I get the right replacements.

There is a recent thread on ADV Rider (Beasts) about Strom brakes. Check out page 2, posting #24 for a link to an article on bedding in new brakes.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268532

Did the SS brake lines add noticably to the brake effectivness??
 
Did the SS brake lines add noticably to the brake effectivness??

The feel on the lever is better, but I really don't use the brakes hard. I am noticing how much darker the fluid in the clutch resv. is now that clean fluid is in the brake resv. - so now I'll bleed that before the trip too.
 
Yeah, Deb's is an 02 / first gen SV. Not fuel injected.
 
Uhhhh, it's fuel injected, it doesn't have jets.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. You can always go to a leaner injection map, but it's generally better to run slightly rich than slightly lean. The bike will run cooler and produce more power in the coming winter air. So long as you're not fouling plugs between checks, I say let 'er be.

:rider:
 
As for getting info on the internet for workshop day/meet and greets, forget the idea, buy the factory manual. Clymer sucks and the internet sucks.

I'll second this comment in a big way. Long ago, I owned a used 1986 VN750 that came with a Clymer manual. A few months later, I picked up a factory manual from an acquaintance and was astounded at how much more thorough the Kawasaki book was. From then on, I've never bought anything but the real deal.
 
Y'all really know how to kill a wrenching report...

The manual I have is in PDF format, but it's the real deal manual.
 
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