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Nitro Mousse Installation

Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
577
Location
Longview, TX
We've always run tubes in our bikes, but Heather's Freeride came with foam inserts and it sure is nice to not worry about flats.

I'm thinking about a set of mousse bibs for my next trip to Utah in April. Can you recommend a shop in Dallas or ETX that has expertise installing these? Should I just man up and try doing it myself? Perhaps with the help of a lower-buck tire changer? Can't see spending $300+ on a Rabaconda. What say ye with experience besides "use lots of lube"?
 

WFO75080

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Bibs are the Bomb. I've run them in all my bikes for years. The trick is finding what "Pressure" feels right. If your more street and gravel roads then you want a tighter fit.
i.e, putting a 19 inch rear bib in an 18 inch tire. On my 300 I run an 18 inch bib because I want the ultimate traction. The only shop that has the experience I know of is in McKinney. AdventureMoto. They will also give you a really good price at install. Since I'v been using Bibs I put them in myself. Once you know how they are MUCh easier than tubes. The one thing bibs aren't good for is a lot of slab. Especially big bikes, like KTM 1290 and BMW's. I run Bibs in my 500 EXC in Colorado last summer. Got speeds of about 90 MPH and never had any issues. Be sure to add lots of lube, (silicone) I'm going to be buying a set of rims for my 1290 so I can run a better dirt only tire and will be using bibs. They are NOT DOT approved. I also put tubeless valve stems in so I can add lube without taking the tire off. So far its worked well. If you're mostly dirt them you'll never go back to tubes.
 

WFO75080

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Regarding the earlier comment about longevity, how's that worked out for you WFO? Also, any comparison to tubliss?
I have not tried tubeless. I have many friends that feel the same way about Tubelss as I do about bibs. One reason I don't want to go tubeless is you can still pinch the tube and get a flat. With Bibs there is ZERO chance of a flat. My buddies tell me they can regulate the pressure in their tire. One trick we do is take a bib and cut it and add a section of another old bib. What this does is "Tighten" up the pressure. You'll see this a lot with Pro offload riders that like to "Tune" their pressure. Some will drill holes to decrease the pressure effect. The Lube is what gives the bib longevity. When they get dry they are trouble. The most amazing part about bibs is the increase in traction. I ride a lot of offload and bibs have been a game changer. It's like cheating. Kinda like the Rekluse,....thats a whole other subject. I have many different bikes all with different bib setups. More than happy to let anyone try them out if you'd like.
 

WFO75080

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That was a crappy answer. Because the bib is slippery with the lube it gets all over and pretty much keeps the entire tire lubed. They are extremely slippery inside the tire.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
577
Location
Longview, TX
Thanks WFO. Your commentary pushed me over the edge. I ordered a Rabaconda and a set of Bibs last night. ADV has a deal in the vendor section to get the tire changer at ~$75 off.
 

WFO75080

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You will really like the Rabaconda. Watch the videos on you tube. It will take you a little time to get it down and you might have to review the videos but once you have it tire changes are no longer a chore. Now that you have the Rab, invest in about 4-6 really good (Long) tire irons. RMATV has some great ones and they are cheap. If you don't want to scratch your rims get a motion pro (or the like) rim saver. Order some extra lube because you will need it next tire change. If you change bibs save your old ones.
 

WFO75080

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What you will learn over time is the cut and old bib and "Add" a section of another bib to increase the pressure feel. It really comes down to what type of tire you're running and what type of riding you're going to do. As bibs wear out the shrink. Back in the day a bib might last 4 races. Now I can have them last over a year. I still ride at least 2x a week but not at race pace. What tire are you `running and what type of riding do you mostly do? Feel free to call me if you want. 972-922-7208.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
577
Location
Longview, TX
Thanks for all the info and the offer to connect!

I do mostly trail-riding and a few enduros - mostly Arkansas Hare Scramble or Blackjack series. Those are the two I did last season. My wife rides as well, so we get out to Barnwell at least once a month. It's only 30 minutes from our house.

I'm running Dunlop Geomax AT 81's, but was thinking about giving the Motoz Arena Hybrid a try. Heather has Trials tires on her FreeRide (with worn-out mousse's), so may switch her to a hybrid knobby.
 
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
1,101
Location
Texas
I helped a buddy install bibs on a honda 450 and it took 3 of us, several bent levers and alot of lube to get them in. Rode 500 miles racing desert no problem- tires not so much.
Id say the tire changer is worth the expense if you plan to runs bibs all the time.
 

WFO75080

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I'm nursing some broken ribs from a riding get off in Costa Rica or I'd be at Barnwell Friday. I've raced many an Enduro on the Black Jack Circuit. I've got the Motoz Arena Hybrid gummy on my 500 and the Shinko 525 cheater on both the 300's. The 525 is by far my most favorite tire for offload. The traction is just like it says,.....cheating!
Next time your going out at BMRA shoot me a message and If I'm out I'll stop by and say hello.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
577
Location
Longview, TX
I'm off to a good start. De-beading both tires could have been accomplished while holding a PB&J in the other hand. This thing makes it easy. Well, you really do need both hands, but you get the point. I need some rim tape before I start in on the fun part, so stay tuned. I was spraying some WD40 on the rim lock studs and didn't want to make a mess (hence the cardboard). And we just finished moving, so I have a LOT of boxes about.

229125
 

bwdmax

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:coffee: I’ll be interested in the mounting and your thoughts after a few rides.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
577
Location
Longview, TX
Two phrases ring in my ears. "You can never use too much tire lube" and "if you're sweating while installing a mousse you're doing it wrong". It was easier to get one of those right.

I used 1.5 tubes of lube spread across the inside carcass of the tire and the mousse. It was like wresting a big worm trying to get it into the tire. Nitro Mousse's fitament guide suggested a 120 mousse for this particular 110 tire (Dunlop Geomax AT 81). It was a squeeze.

Me mid-wresting match. The trick was to spread the tire and push the mousse in place and then work around until it popped in. Messy.

IMG_7735-X2.png



From there I watched the "3 minute mousse tire change" video about 3 times (linked above) and set to work on the tire stand.

IMG_7726-X2.jpg



They make it look easy on the video. My mousse/tire combo was a bit tighter squeeze than the one they used. However, the trick that can-not be over-emphasized is to use a few tire irons, vice grips, or something to keep the opposing lip down in the groove, not seated. This gives you a little extra room to maneuver. As you can see I was grunting and shedding layers, so I'm still refining my technique. Probably took me about 5 minutes to get the first side on after I spent a good 5 minutes doing it wrong. It was actually easier than some tube-changing experiences I've had and no worry of a pinch!

There was a fair bit of grunting to get the second lip on the rim, but after another 10-15 minutes I had a fully mounted mousse. I cut down a tube to just the shrader valve in case I needed to inject air in to seat the bead. The bead seated fine, but I've heard of some people using this to add lube to the mousse. Not sure how I will "force" lube into the "open" shrader valve (no valve core), but for now it's sealed and well lubed. I taped the inside with Tubliss rim tape before install. Sorry, no pics of that.

I'm hopeful that the front will be a bit easier. Keen to test them at Barnwell this coming Sunday.

2019031208231509-IMG_7723-X2.jpg


I had some last minute wrestling to get the rim-lock to push in and seat, but the tire stand worked like a charm. Some installers comment on its low height, but I liked the ability to get leverage on the tire. Two thumbs up so far.
 

WFO75080

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EXCELLENT JOB! Now, once you've got the tire on with Mousse installed you will be AMAZED at how easy it is to change the tire when it's time. You bought the Perfect tire tools as well.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
577
Location
Longview, TX
Thanks. My wife was the cheer-leader / photographer. At one point she said, "I'm glad your not the type that gets angry and throws things". Getting your technique figured out on these is tough even with the best of tools.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
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Location
Longview, TX
The front went on much easier. Experience helps. I dare say it was easier than putting on a tube.

After removing the front tire and tube I cleaned the wheel with some Gunk-Off and a rag. I didn't scrub too hard, but tried to knock off a few years of grime and debris. I'm not too OCD, so perhaps you can get yours cleaner. I used Tubliss rim tape and followed their directions to complete 3 wraps that run down the middle, a little left, and a little right. The result is below. The tape should keep some debris from entering the wheel, but I really wanted it to seal around the schrader valve and rim-lock holes. This may have been overkill, but it didn't seem to hurt anything so I went ahead.

Stay tuned for 1st impressions from the dirt.

229835



Anybody else here run Mousse Bibs? Do you find that Nitro Mousse's guide yields a good feel? Too soft? Too hard? They suggested a 120/100-18 Mousse for the rear 110/100-18 GeoMax AT and it was a squeeze. I need to reserve judgement until the break-in period is over, but I'm wondering about how it will feel. WFO, you mentioned saving old Mousse's and "shaping" or carving one to attain a preferred pressure feel. Do you have any links to guides on this? Seems like it'd be tough to get it even.

I'm also scoping a replacement setup for Heather's Freeride. It came with Mousse Bibs, part of the reason I'm converting my bike that way too, and they are very worn out. The schrader valve holes were left open, so I'm sure they're dry as a bone too. She has excellent traction with the Mousse and rear trials tire. I think I'm going to use an Motoz Arena Hybrid out back and a Goden Tyre Fatty up front on her bike. Anybody else run these gummy type tires? Do you find the NitroMousse fitament guide to be accurate? At $100/Mousse I'd like to get the right feel wihtout too much trial and error. Thanks for any comments!
 

WFO75080

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Great that you're interested in the "Mousse" revolution! Ha! You will have to learn what You like. The Nitro mousse is stiffer than the Michelin and now Nitro has come out with a "Soft" version which I have not tried. (I've never tried the Goldentyre) I prefer the Michelin in my 300/250 and prefer the Nitro in my 500. MOTOZ makes some nice tires. I use the Arena Hybrid gummy ($100.00) on my 500 and the Shinko 525 cheater ($70.00) on the 300. 2 totally different tires. I've had great results from the Dunlop 33S front. I've heard great things about the Goldentyre fatty. Once you run the gummy you won't go back. The enemy of all tires is wheel spin. On my 500 I drilled the shrader hole out and put in a tubeless valve stem. If I want to add some lube I can do so without removing the tire. Many riders like Graham Jarvis drill holes (huge holes) in the bibs. Both Michelin and Nitro are proud of their lube. Grab some of that clear tire shine (silicone) from the auto parts and it will save you money and time. When a Mouse wears it shrinks. Heat is your enemy. When they shrink they can roll over. You can take an old mousse and cut it. Take another piece (section) of a mousse and ADD that inside the tire. By doing this you can save money and also "Tune" the pressure you like. The more you add the stiffer (higher air pressure feel) you get. I prefer a stiffer feel on the 500 because I hit some slab. If you have a stiff tire (like the AT 81) you won't get the same feel like you would with the MOTOZ Arena Hybrid or the 525 cheater. The only way to really find out what you like is to change from one to the other in a relatively short period of time so you can compare. It also depends on what type of terrain you ride on and are you looking for traction or longevity, or both. I want Traction above all else. Period. Falling because I lost traction could send me to the ER (and has)! I'm going to assume you ride at BMRA mostly. Bibs will do you well there. Keep you bike on a stand when in your garage. Bibs will get a low spot when they sit for a while. It will go away after riding a little. Enjoy the fact you will Never have a flat tire eve again!
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
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Location
Longview, TX
:coffee: I’ll be interested in the mounting and your thoughts after a few rides.

First off, a recap of the hardware I'm running:

Front: Dunlop Geomax AT81 90/100-21
Front Mousse: 80/100-21
Rear: Dunlop GeoMax AT81 110/100-18
Rear Mousse: 120/100-18
KTM 250 XCW - 2 stroke

Spent about 3 hrs on Sunday 3/17 at Barnwell riding the Singletrack with a mix of hurry-up and wait (Heather always makes it through the tough obstacles, but never in a real hurry) and riding very slowly without touching or sitting for 10-15 minutes at a time focusing on tire placement and riding every difficult line clean.

I can say that I absolutely love riding with Mousse inserts. For offroad riding I wouldn't go with anything else. We'll see how many rides i get out of these, but the physiological benefit of not worrying about hitting a sharp edge, being aired down to low, or wondering if pressure needs to be checked is great. I didn't notice any adverse performance associated with the increased unsprung weight. It really wasn't noticeable to me. The tires tracked and held better than expected and had me enjoying upper 2nd gear and lower 3rd gear rails along the single-track. Two-thumbs up!

Next step will be to ride a lot (of course) and then try a softer walled tire like WFO describes above. I imagine that will be even more fun with traction for days. Wheel-spin is the enemy right?
 
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