Oil Changes

[seo68]

riddle me this: over the past month or so, twice I have started the Jeep after it sat cold for a couple of days and it blew a big enough puff of oil smoke at startup for me to notice it in the rear view mirror. It doesn't do this every time. I do park it on my driveway at a nearly 20 degree incline, if that has anything to do with it. But anyway, my gut tells me this must be leaking valve stem seals. Could this have anything to do with my oil choice? Or is it maybe a result of parking at an angle all its life? Should I worry?

I think it has nothing to do with the angle. I also suspect you have leaking valve stem seals that wouldn't be noticed if it hadn't been after a longer rest. I don't think I would worry at all unless oil consumption in between changes gets excessive. In my entirely amateur opinion, you are doing absolutely no harm to your engine other than perhaps some very minor plug fouling which you are probably immediately burning off. It may well be that switching oils could conceivably reduce that somewhat, but I wouldn't know what to suggest and I wouldn't say it is warranted in any case. This seems to me like your Jeep is acting its age and it's only a minor mid-life non-crisis.

 

[mr72]

I think it has nothing to do with the angle. I also suspect you have leaking valve stem seals that wouldn't be noticed if it hadn't been after a longer rest.

Thanks for your response here. That's exactly what my initial impression was. However, I did some more research today and it appears these engines are known to draw oil into the intake when running at a steep angle. Teraflex even makes a kit to remedy this issue:

https://teraflex.com/jk-3-6l-crankcase-vent-system-kit.html

In any case I'll probably get one of these kits and put it on my Jeep just in case, and also not worry about it if it keeps doing it since oil consumption between changes is minimal and I can totally get along with valve stem seals being old-ish. Also there is a rumor on the internet that certain years of these Pentastar engines had "low tension" rings which allowed excessive blow-by, but my symptoms don't mimic that--usually smoking during decel or gear changes.

 

[Downs]

All this oil talk and my Jeep's "change oil soon" light came on, and also I owed an oil change to my Bonneville. The Jeep has had Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 and a Mopar filter every 10K since new, did all but one of the oil changes myself. It's right about 70K. So riddle me this: over the past month or so, twice I have started the Jeep after it sat cold for a couple of days and it blew a big enough puff of oil smoke at startup for me to notice it in the rear view mirror. It doesn't do this every time. I do park it on my driveway at a nearly 20 degree incline, if that has anything to do with it. But anyway, my gut tells me this must be leaking valve stem seals. Could this have anything to do with my oil choice? Or is it maybe a result of parking at an angle all its life? Should I worry?

Also my Bonnie, I bought it with 4200 miles on it and immediately put it on a 1500-2000 mile OCI, now it's about 18K. Triumph recommends Castrol, so the first several oil changes I put Castrol "Racing" 4T full synthetic in, but the Castrol is no longer available locally so I got Mobil1 "Racing" 4T 10W40 this time around. On the Scrambler, 51K miles, I put Rotella T6 as a test, since it's cheaper. Scrambler seems to be absolutely fine with that oil, but it has harder clutch springs than the Bonnie and doesn't rev as high. Rotella T6 in my GS500 caused the clutch to slip above about 8K, which is why I worry about trying it in the Bonnie. Any reason not to use the Mobil1 Racing 4T? It has the stock clutch and I do rev it above 8K at times, but I wonder if there's any reason I shouldn't try T6, since it's less than half the price of the boutique 4T oils.

What year/model Jeep are we talking about? If we're talking like a TJ with the 4.0 or 2.5 then they're not really known for valve stem seals going bad especially with that few miles. I've seen a few reports of worn valve seals and guides on the JKs but not enough to make me think it's a widespread problem.

 

[mr72]

What year/model Jeep are we talking about?

2015 JK. 3.6 pentastar v6

 

[Cagiva 549]

The 5 wt oil is a problem in a warm climate , only an advantage if you are going to be running in below zero climates . Nothing i own runs anything lighter than 15-40 and ive been in teens with no starting issues .

 

[Valker]

My Ridgeline runs 0W-20 and my Lexus uses 5W-20

 

[Cagiva 549]

Manufactures dont always make choices based on whats best for the life of their product , they are based on satisfying govt interference . The last 25 years of my working career was spent figuring out what need to be changed on new machinery to make it reliable to work day in day out . Proper lubrication was a major issue on near all of it but when the computer age took over i couldnt fix that and retired . Now i fix the old stuff thats still going strong that a dealer cant handle . Changing oil from a high viscosity to thiner than water will improve fuel mileage by a fraction of a percent and manufactures are grasping at straws to try to satisfy the govt that will never be satisfyed . Years ago i saw a work sheet that showed the horsepower draw of everything in a motor doing what it does , oil pump , water pump , power steering , cooling fan and so on , the total was over 20% before it ever got to the driveline . Look at all the electrics under the hood now but you still have to make that electricity . If you push it down the road and make that somebody else's problem is exactly where we are right now . When you ave a problem just shirk it off on somebody else , the american way these days .

 

[mr72]

Last time I ran 15W or 20W anything in a car engine was an '89 model car. Since then it's been 10W, and the >2010 vehicles 5W. It's not so much fuel economy, but it's film thickness and ability of the oil to flow into smaller passages when the engine is stone cold. I figure an oil that's easier to pump to the cylinder head and valvetrain will result in better lubrication of the cold engine.

Since my Jeep has only in 8+ years done this puff of oil smoke on startup twice, I suspect it's not valve stem seals or thin oil leaking past those seals. That would happen every day, and also while running on decel if it were the problem. But I can see how if I had a serious problem with oil burning then using 15W oil might reduce that until I could replace the seals. At the moment I'm going to stick with the theory from the Jeep community that it's being parked or run at a steep angle causing oil to get past the PCV valve and into the intake, and try that solution.

 

[FE_Rex]

On Ford Panther platforms (Crown Vic, Marquis, Town car). The oil recommendations were thinned down through the years from 5W30(1992) to 5W20 (2011). I have run anything from 20w50 (car with noisy valve-train) to 5W20 (on a 50K mile car I picked up). In the summer when, I switched to 10W30 I lost around 1-1.5 mpg.

I typically run 10W30 M1 with a 10K change interval. My commute is ~110m/d and takes ~1 to 1-1/2 hrs each way. I have run at least 4 of these cars ~200K w/o an oil related problems. Come to think of it, the only other fluids I think I changed were:

• tranny fluid on one car cause it had a torque converter chatter.
• rear diff fluid on one car cause a of a bad bearing axle bearing (bad as in destroyed with axle)
• Coolant in one car that had the 4.6 plastic manifold crack
• R134 in one car the destroyed a compressor
• OT obsercvation - these were good cars, I would get them with 50-70K on them and sell them with ~250-275K still runing strong

In terms of thin oils, unless you have the oil being used for something BESIDES lubricaiton in the motor - i.e. variable valve train acutation, injector control (most modern deisels) etc I would care to bet like Cagiva 549 states, the lower oil recommendations are for mileage gains.

I do know that some of the the NHRA stock eliminator tricks included thin oil, low pressure (5-10psi/1K rpm), 1/4 filled differential cases etc

​

 

[Valker]

Don’t forget that tighter bearing clearances are another reason for the thinner oils.

 

[Irishcoffee]

On Ford Panther platforms (Crown Vic, Marquis, Town car). The oil recommendations were thinned down through the years from 5W30(1992) to 5W20 (2011). I have run anything from 20w50 (car with noisy valve-train) to 5W20 (on a 50K mile car I picked up). In the summer when, I switched to 10W30 I lost around 1-1.5 mpg.

I typically run 10W30 M1 with a 10K change interval. My commute is ~110m/d and takes ~1 to 1-1/2 hrs each way. I have run at least 4 of these cars ~200K w/o an oil related problems. Come to think of it, the only other fluids I think I changed were:

• tranny fluid on one car cause it had a torque converter chatter.
• rear diff fluid on one car cause a of a bad bearing axle bearing (bad as in destroyed with axle)
• Coolant in one car that had the 4.6 plastic manifold crack
• R134 in one car the destroyed a compressor
• OT obsercvation - these were good cars, I would get them with 50-70K on them and sell them with ~250-275K still runing strong

In terms of thin oils, unless you have the oil being used for something BESIDES lubricaiton in the motor - i.e. variable valve train acutation, injector control (most modern deisels) etc I would care to bet like Cagiva 549 states, the lower oil recommendations are for mileage gains.

I do know that some of the the NHRA stock eliminator tricks included thin oil, low pressure (5-10psi/1K rpm), 1/4 filled differential cases etc

​

A vehicle that gets most of its miles on a highway like you describe lives a far better life than the typical urban warrior. We are in our first vehicle with synthetic 0--20 oils I change at 4--5K miles. Will see how things go.

 

[Flipit]

I have a 20 Tundra which calls for 0-20. It was noisy from the moment I started it at the dealership

 

[mr72]

I have a 20 Tundra which calls for 0-20. It was noisy from the moment I started it at the dealership

My Jeep has plastic valve covers. It has surprisingly noisy valvetrain since new. Also, after riding three air-cooled twin-cylinder OHC motorcycles, I have learned that a noisy motor is a happy motor.

Virtually all newer cars have bearing clearances, oil passages, and VVT designed to work with thinner oils, I would bet. Before the oil can do it's job, it has to flow in between the parts it is intended to lubricate.

 

[William Wolfen]

I have a 20 Tundra which calls for 0-20. It was noisy from the moment I started it at the dealership

I have a '17. It's been fine for over 60k miles. Following the factory change schedule. Yep, that's 10k miles. It does take 2 gallons at a change.

 

[Irishcoffee]

Interesting about the increased amt of oil used now. We are on our third GM 5.3 engine and the latest one is now using eight quarts along with the 0-20.