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secondaries

Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
161
Location
CA
So I dug up this post because I recalled someone taking out the secondary shaft. I may be next on the list since I kind of screwed up my secondary shaft

http://www.twtex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89681

Tasi, when you've done this, do you feel that the passages between TB 2 and 3 need to be plugged up, or can I just get away with removing the servo motor and rod, chopping off all but about 5-10mm of the rod, plug the #4 TB hole with a brass plug, and put the servo and severely shortened rod back into TB #1 into its original slot?
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
559
Location
australia
Personally I wouldn't only use a brass plug .I used epoxy in all holes so it looked like a normal set of carbs .A brass plug is on the rhs with epoxy behind it and a dummy metal head head with epoxy behind it on the LHS .Removed the servo motor from its position and it now floats under the tank .
The LHS Connector fits into the servo motor with a 10-20mm shaft to turn it .
This is just silicon ed in place .
It sounds complicated (its not ) and I think you have the right idea .
If you have problems I can post a pic of the servo motor.
I have had no problems at all since removing that bar, in fact just the opposite .
Just have a good look at the pin in the bar and the angle of the end of it where it fits into the connector .Your just making it shorter and getting rid of the RHS of it .
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
161
Location
CA
Tasi, yeah, that's what I meant by the #1 and #4TB. LHS and RHS. If you could post additional pictures, that'd be fantastic. I think I am going to exercise this option for a permanent solution. Thank you!
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
161
Location
CA
Tasi, I examined it closer today (it was a long and tiring day yesterday) and I had some cranial flatulence regarding the position of the motor.

So, that being said before I start disassembly of the throttlebodies, do you have any tips or additional pictures for servo motor removal? Do the shafts come out once the TB assembly is split? (looks to be that way)

I am also trying to figure out where you placed it after attaching the sensor to it, because that space is very very cramped. I suppose I could extend the factory harness plug cable and move it far out of the way, like into the upper fairing or equivalent. What did you do?

Feel free to shoot me a PM or post in here please. :)
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
559
Location
australia
This is the sevo motor .THe connector which is normally on the LHS of the throttle bodies is pushed into the the motor with the rod end (that looks like a flat screwdriver bit ) operates as normal . I just glued it in place ,looks messy but its solid .
DSCF71211_zpsb971eb50.jpg


the other side the rod is cut off flush .

I did this so long ago I can not remember too much more .
Personally if you don't really WANT to remove the rod ,don't . The rod may look stuffed but it will not cause any damage like that .

Save yourself the drama and bolt it back together .
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
161
Location
CA
Finally had some time to work on the bandit today. I took apart the manifold and took out the servo motor and secondary shaft. You guys were right, it would have held up if I just put it back in. But, I already did ALL that work... so I figured I'd see it through.

I couldn't find decent enough plugs to plug up the throttle body holes, so I opted for what I had on hand. I tapped the hole where the shaft position sensor lived and put in

the shortened rod to connect servo motor and sensor:

4ojhAHV.jpg


Cross section of the rod, this part will get filled with jbweld

dg0c3BL.jpg


Test fit with cross section (had to measure a bunch of time to make sure I had the right angle.

6UWjRhF.jpg


JBweld gluing the rod. Hopefully when it dries, it won't be frozen in one spot :) although I did make sure to avoid gluing edges. Once this dries solid, I am going to epoxy the sensor on top, since it needs to have slight pressure on it (or mine did, anyway).

qnhXjGr.jpg


jbwelded bolt to fill the shaft hole

I9zqiTu.jpg


Shaft position sensor hole tapped and screwed

yXLr41l.jpg


Shortened m6 bolt coated with JBweld to plug up last externally facing hole.

phfBiBC.jpg


These are drying now, so hopefully they should be ready to go tomorrow.

And hopefully I didn't screw anything up royally. Before I finish this up, Tasi, did you fill in the shaft tunnels between throttlebodies? ie. between 1-2 and 3-4? I don't think having those open would have much impact, but I'd like to know your input.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
559
Location
australia
Yes I filled them up with epoxy putty .
I got a bit confused on the angle the sensor has to go on the end of the rod .If the FI light flashes try a different angle . (slot position )
Looking good .
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
161
Location
CA
Yep, that's my idea tomorrow. Since I can have the servo hang outside of the bike while it's running, I can get the correct angle. I haven't glued them yet for that reason
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
161
Location
CA
Update: put everything back together and fired up the bike. Hooked up the sync tool and this is what I had prior to TB syncing:

3pZNsNCl.jpg


This is about as close as I got to syncing it right. I regret not getting the mercury filled carbtune, because it would have been a lot better than this "environmentally friendly
***.

Cr2GXuIl.jpg


Bike vibrates less at idle now. I also ziptied (for now, the bike is not in ridable condition at this point) the sensor and the servo motor together. No error codes. I got C28 when I forgot to plug the sensor into the harness, which was expected. Only code I got was C13 when I unplugged the IAP to do the TB sync. I was thinking about where to put the servo motor and sensor, since space is rather limited, and I decided that it'll be easy to make a simple R/R relocation bracket from 16ga steel so it gets better airflow, and permanently locate the servo motor/sensor combo behind the R/R.

What else did I learn today?

1: do not ever accidentally graze the exhaust header with any appendages. i now have 2 burnt fingertips.

2. this sync tool sucks, i should have gotten a mercury filled one. t

3. no c28 code, or any codes for that matter, except for c13 when i unplugged the iap sensor to do tb sync

4. next time i will checkbook the TB sync; but it was a good learning experience


The bike now is super rev happy and no hesitation.

I had the dumbest moment of my life today though, aside from burning myself... I dry fired the bike without oil. I forgot to put oil in after everything, and i listened to "it sounds weird" for about 10 -15 seconds... "OH ****. NO OIL. KILL IT!". put oil in it, ran it, burped coolant. checked oil, added a bit more. then i ran it for about 30-40 minutes while syncing TBs.

i've never ran a vehicle without oil, period. ever. not even a dry start. so hopefully those 10-15 seconds didn't have any impact on it.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
161
Location
CA
Bike runs quite well, mid-range is "holy crap". I got settings from Dale Walker for TFI stage 2+ header, and yeah, it's interesting watching the speedo make 6-8 mph jumps as it can't keep up with the bike. Throttle response is greatly improved. The only downside is that below 3k rpm the bike doesn't have much power as compared to stock. Torque now starts peaking around 4-5k rpm instead of stock torque curve, where 90% of it was available at 2000rpm.

Had to make a bracket for the R/R relocation, which was free given I had a piece of 16ga steel lying around:

WDhKKZA.jpg


The secondary butterfly servo motor is jbwelded shut and ziptied to the bracket behind the R/R. It's spinning in limbo, but no error codes at all.

4BKEbb0.jpg


R/R installed. Not the cleanest, but looks and works OK. You can see the tapped servo sensor holed above.

4TwhxBa.jpg


Basically, bike runs like a raped ape. My friend just picked up a Honda blackbird (1100cc, 165hp, CBR frame with a touring motor). We swapped bikes, and he lifted the front wheel on my bike by accident a couple of times. Also, vibrations are lessened since I synced the throttle bodies.
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
59
Location
chico
Yikes,you guys are going for it to get power out of these little 1250's. Yosh cams,pipes,power commanders,etc.

I was out riding my stocker 1250S yesterday...........simply hold the throttle wide open and its doing 140mph quicker then one would think.

How fast does one need to go?
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
161
Location
CA
Well, we can all go only to 65mph (in CA) legally. and in some spots like I5, 75 :)

This fixed the throttle response that I wanted to rectify, and the torque is moved to midrange, reducing chance of accidental wheelies. The bike would also start falling flat on its face around 7k rpm. (also, no cams here. no motor work)

I also removed 20 lbs of exhaust weight as a result. I can hear the bike (running db insert because I don't want everyone to know I have a loud bike) and not overwhelm people around me with noise.

Also, I wouldn't call a 1250 "little" :) Bandit's actually on the weak end in stock form. 560lb bike putting down 105 at the wheel (granted, also a buttload of torque). Aforementioned friend's blackbird was rated at 165hp @ crank, and people put down 135-140 to the wheel.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
559
Location
australia
Good job . Isnt it nice just knowing that useless 6mm bar isn't blocking
the intake .Added motor response is a bonus .
 
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
881
Location
NW GA
I also didn't do it for the power but the decreased annoyances with the throttle and to get rid of the lean condition from the factory! Ride a at least Stage 1 Footdragger then go back to the stocker and tell us you can't tell the HUGE difference in all the annoyances of the bike because of the emission junk and its stock settings!
 
J

Joflewbyu2

Finally had some time to work on the bandit today. I took apart the manifold and took out the servo motor and secondary shaft. You guys were right, it would have held up if I just put it back in. But, I already did ALL that work... so I figured I'd see it through.

I couldn't find decent enough plugs to plug up the throttle body holes, so I opted for what I had on hand. I tapped the hole where the shaft position sensor lived and put in

the shortened rod to connect servo motor and sensor:

View attachment 177796

Cross section of the rod, this part will get filled with jbweld

View attachment 177797

Test fit with cross section (had to measure a bunch of time to make sure I had the right angle.

View attachment 177798

JBweld gluing the rod. Hopefully when it dries, it won't be frozen in one spot :) although I did make sure to avoid gluing edges. Once this dries solid, I am going to epoxy the sensor on top, since it needs to have slight pressure on it (or mine did, anyway).

View attachment 177799

jbwelded bolt to fill the shaft hole

View attachment 177800

Shaft position sensor hole tapped and screwed

View attachment 177801

Shortened m6 bolt coated with JBweld to plug up last externally facing hole.

View attachment 177802

These are drying now, so hopefully they should be ready to go tomorrow.

And hopefully I didn't screw anything up royally. Before I finish this up, Tasi, did you fill in the shaft tunnels between throttlebodies? ie. between 1-2 and 3-4? I don't think having those open would have much impact, but I'd like to know your input.
I went to remove the secondary throttle blades and stripped the screws so I drilled them out with a large bit the split the rod. I was able to pull the rod out of the outside cylinders but not the piece in the middle where servo motor is. I was able to cut short but not able to slide out from servo motor. Does the throttle intake need to be split apart to get the rod out from the servo motor? How is the rod attached to the servo motor? thanks in advance for any help.
 
J

Joflewbyu2

.




Most of us believe life is better with out them .
Trouble is ,you get left with that 6mm bar that does nothing but turn the sensor on the LHS of the throttle bodies .
I'm not exactly sure of the tb opening size but its around 44mm-+ .So with 4 of them ,total suck in area is 176 mm.
Trouble is ,the 6mm rod, robs you of 24 mm of clean air suck .Not entirely true because the air goes around the rod but you get the idea .
In other words ,IT GETS IN THE WAY .
I'm no mechanic so I could be totally wrong but the rod seems to be a hindrance , agreed ? (agreed )


The tb's are actually two halves joined together ,the secondary servo thing is in the middle .
I decided the sensor on the LHS of the throttle body's could be placed into the servo leaving the rod 20mm long (less than 1 ")instead of 300mm?
inside the TBs .Servo is now not attached to the tb's .
Holes for rod are plugged with Epoxy Steel .
Tbs now look as they should .
Waiting for epoxy to dry so a smooth finish is obtained ..
View attachment 173281

View attachment 173282
Tasi, I attempted to remove throttle plates but stripped the screws so I drilled them out with a bit large enough that I split the rod. I was able to pull the rod out in bits but not the pieces by the middle that go through the servo motor. Is there a trick to remove from servo motor? Does the throttle need to be split apart to get the little section out? I was able to sand flush to cylinder wall but afraid the bits mights release and go into engine.Is the rod locked in the servo?
 
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