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So my girlfriend wanted to get a bike...

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I hate to sound like a misogynistic, sexist pig, but IMO most women are not cut out to pilot motorcycles. The physical strength, mindset, muscle coordination, instant control manipulation & aggressive characteristics (merging in traffic, etc) are not common in the vast majority of women. Most women just aren’t wired thataway. Keep in mind I’m saying “average” female here. Yes, I know there are some great women riders (many here on TWT). There’s a bunch that are better riders than me, no doubt. Clutchless & Spirit at Bay could ride circles around me.

That being said, some men aren’t cut out for riding either.

Sometimes when I see a pair of riders on the road, I can easily determine that 1 is the GF/wife by how they ride (more deliberate, less control, less strength, etc).

IMO, put her on the back of that new Beemer & see if she enjoys riding pillion. To me, 2-up is way funner than riding 2 bikes anyway, I don’t have to worry about my wife gettin ran over without me.

As usual, I may be clinically insane, completely wrong & maybe no one should listen to any of my ramblings.
 
In my limited experience, I would say any one (male or female) that doesn't have a strong desire and skillset to be on a motorcycle, shouldn't be on one. It seems like one of those things you kind of need to be all in on to do.

I'd go further and say that most riders need WAY more training than they get. I see riders with years of experience making really basic mistakes all the time and it surprises me every time.
 
maximus_flavius said:
I hate to sound like a misogynistic, sexist pig, but IMO most women are not cut out to pilot motorcycles. The physical strength, mindset, muscle coordination, instant control manipulation & aggressive characteristics (merging in traffic, etc) are not common in the vast majority of women. Most women just aren’t wired thataway. Keep in mind I’m saying “average” female here. Yes, I know there are some great women riders (many here on TWT). There’s a bunch that are better riders than me, no doubt. Clutchless & Spirit at Bay could ride circles around me.

That being said, some men aren’t cut out for riding either.

Sometimes when I see a pair of riders on the road, I can easily determine that 1 is the GF/wife by how they ride (more deliberate, less control, less strength, etc).

IMO, put her on the back of that new Beemer & see if she enjoys riding pillion. To me, 2-up is way funner than riding 2 bikes anyway, I don’t have to worry about my wife gettin ran over without me.

As usual, I may be clinically insane, completely wrong & maybe no one should listen to any of my ramblings.
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Thank you, I think?
 
Jarrett said:
In my limited experience, I would say any one (male or female) that doesn't have a strong desire and skillset to be on a motorcycle, shouldn't be on one. It seems like one of those things you kind of need to be all in on to do.
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This. Motorcycle riding is not real forgiving of mistakes. If you are constantly riding in a state of fear and low confidence, that is not good. Of course, "No Fear!" and over confidence can be just as bad... :doh:
 
Jarrett said:
In my limited experience, I would say any one (male or female) that doesn't have a strong desire and skillset to be on a motorcycle, shouldn't be on one. It seems like one of those things you kind of need to be all in on to do.

I'd go further and say that most riders need WAY more training than they get. I see riders with years of experience making really basic mistakes all the time and it surprises me every time.
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Agreed. There is risk involved with motorcycling and if you don't have the desire then you likely shouldn't take on the risks. And agree with the training. Training is like money, it's hard to have too much.
 
maximus_flavius said:
That being said, some men aren’t cut out for riding either.
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This is true and it accounts for the people that buy that 3 year old bike with 1,500 miles on it. You've got to understand and accept the risk. Some people get into it and have a close call and decide it's not for them.

The strength issue is a problem that affects women in a number of activities. Scuba diving comes to mind. Women have all the same gear, just with usually less muscle to heft it with. Once you get into the water, the playing field is leveled, but getting TO the water is more of a challenge ON AVERAGE. Like Scuba gear, motorcycles can only be made so light.
 
Tourmeister said:
Let her know that almost all new riders drop their bikes at one time or another. Come to think of it, there are a lot of experienced riders that sometimes drop their bike. It just happens if you ride often or long enough. I have seen lots of vids of guys picking up their dual sports, forgetting that they did not put the kick stand down first, and then flopping it right over on the other side :lol2:

If she is really new to riding, I would avoid the unpaved stuff for a while. Let her work out the coordination issues on pavement. Then, once she gets comfortable and where she can shift, brake, work the throttle, and all that other stuff without really having to think about it, go take an adventure rider training class with her. Like the communicators, it will be money WELL spent for BOTH of you. Trying to learn the basics at the same time that she's trying to learn dirt might just be too much to focus on at one time. If that leads to a mental over load moment, it can make a rider freeze up just long enough that things go wrong.

We ALL only have so much attention capacity to expend on focusing on multiple things. Think of your attention as being like a dollar bill. Different things cost more or less attention. At first, you feel like you are drinking from a fire hose because you are trying to pay attention to EVERYTHING and you haven't yet learned what can be safely ignored. So you are being nickled and dimed to death. All it takes is a few .25 or .50 cent items on top of all those little things and suddenly you run out of spending capacity. This is why it is so hard for new riders. They are devoting a lot of attention to just trying to operate the bike, leaving very little attention to spend on what is actually going on around them, what the road condition might be, etc.... Once the basic skills are mastered, their cost in attention goes WAY down, leaving more spending capacity for other issues. Also, as you get used to riding the bike, you learn what you can ignore and what really does need your attention.
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Yeah, I've made it clear dropping the bike is a common occurrence (I dropped my first bike the first day). It wasn't the first drop of the Versys neither. We joked that at least she got the drop out of the way and now knows how it feels (at a standstill). She was highly aware she'd drop it someday, which is why it made sense to start riding on the Versys instead of a new bike (like we originally planned to).

I still consider myself a rookie and I certainly remember when I was overwhelmed and nervous when riding my bike around the block. I believe you are correct and this is why she dropped it yesterday. She still needs more time to get some of the basics down.

Oh, and yeah, dirt roads are waaay in the future for now.

maximus_flavius said:
I hate to sound like a misogynistic, sexist pig, but IMO most women are not cut out to pilot motorcycles. The physical strength, mindset, muscle coordination, instant control manipulation & aggressive characteristics (merging in traffic, etc) are not common in the vast majority of women. Most women just aren’t wired thataway. Keep in mind I’m saying “average” female here. Yes, I know there are some great women riders (many here on TWT). There’s a bunch that are better riders than me, no doubt. Clutchless & Spirit at Bay could ride circles around me.

That being said, some men aren’t cut out for riding either.

Sometimes when I see a pair of riders on the road, I can easily determine that 1 is the GF/wife by how they ride (more deliberate, less control, less strength, etc).

IMO, put her on the back of that new Beemer & see if she enjoys riding pillion. To me, 2-up is way funner than riding 2 bikes anyway, I don’t have to worry about my wife gettin ran over without me.

As usual, I may be clinically insane, completely wrong & maybe no one should listen to any of my ramblings.
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As you mentioned, I think it goes both ways, regardless of sex. I believe she can get there with more saddle time. She passed the MSF course on the first try (which some fail). What she struggles right now is the seat height more than anything else.

I see your point about riding 2up. For now, it is better since we can rider further away without having to be worried about speed or complexity. However, can't stop her if she wants to take her bike. Yesterday was a good mix of both.

Jarrett said:
In my limited experience, I would say any one (male or female) that doesn't have a strong desire and skillset to be on a motorcycle, shouldn't be on one. It seems like one of those things you kind of need to be all in on to do.

I'd go further and say that most riders need WAY more training than they get. I see riders with years of experience making really basic mistakes all the time and it surprises me every time.
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This is what worries me. I remember I used to watch moto videos and read all the books while I wasn't on the bike, heck I still do. For now, she's not like that. She's definitely interested but maybe in a much healthier way hahaha. :D

However, she's very safety and training conscious, which is why we've been doing some drills. I need to get some cones to mock right hand turns (she's having trouble with those). She's not in a rush to get anywhere for now. Time will tell if she keeps with the desire.

Tourmeister said:
This. Motorcycle riding is not real forgiving of mistakes. If you are constantly riding in a state of fear and low confidence, that is not good. Of course, "No Fear!" and over confidence can be just as bad... :doh:
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Agreed.

Dahveed said:
Agreed. There is risk involved with motorcycling and if you don't have the desire then you likely shouldn't take on the risks. And agree with the training. Training is like money, it's hard to have too much.
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This is why I never suggested she get a motorcycle. I didn't even suggest 2up.
 
Ocho said:
This is what worries me. I remember I used to watch moto videos and read all the books while I wasn't on the bike, heck I still do. For now, she's not like that. She's definitely interested but maybe in a much healthier way hahaha. :D
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It might sound crazy to us, but it may actually be ok to NOT be obsessed with motorcycles :)
 
Jarrett said:
It might sound crazy to us, but it may actually be ok to NOT be obsessed with motorcycles :)
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3F963810-BA5D-43DB-8096-A1091E69B594.jpeg
 
Jarrett said:
It might sound crazy to us, but it may actually be ok to NOT be obsessed with motorcycles :)
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My wife was always happy to let me be the one obsessed. She aced the MSF course, getting the highest score and being the only woman in the class. After the typical newbie period (a few thousand miles) she settled in and became an excellent street rider. Over the course of about four years, she racked up about 40K miles of riding on four different bikes. She had one "accident" in that time. She locked up the rear in a corner, stood it up, and fortunately just ran off into some grass and fell over. Her and the bike were fine, but it did ding her confidence. Still, that was on her second bike. She racked up many more miles on an 01 SV650S and 98 VFR 800. At times, I would try to share stuff with her that I had read in books and learned at a track day, and she listened and applied it, but she was never one for going after that info herself. Once we started having kids, she stopped riding. I'm not sure she'll ever take it up again. She always enjoyed it and we had many great rides together, but she really did it more to spend time with me than just because she really got into the riding as a passion.
 
Today I installed the Alt Rider rear rack + Givi adapters:

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Seems a lot more functional than the tiny rack on the GSA, however it doesn’t seem to fit my Givi Trekker 46L. It simply won’t reach, and I believe everything is setup properly. Maybe only certain boxes are compatible. I sent them a message on advrider, hope they can give me some feedback.

Oh and I added some scars Saturday morning.

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So of course I hadn’t dropped my Versys doing concrete water crossings but as soon as I get the big bike I drop it twice (once in each side). I’m still trying to wrap my head around what caused me to lose the front end like butter.

I was quick to blame the 80/20 tires but the truth is that other riders with 90/10 tires fared better. But it could possible have been me picking the wrong line twice. However I’ve been thinking that maybe the issue was pulling in the clutch, maybe if I had just kept the throttle constant the bike would’ve corrected? I don’t know how you guys do it. I also wonder if I should switch to rain mode.

Of course dropping it two times in a matter of 10 mins hit my confidence by a long shot. It also sucks the stock engine crash bars have no backend mounting point so they bent inwards and my valve casings got scratched.

I quit the ride after the second time, figure my brain wasn’t on the right place.

My only regret is that there are protection plastics one can buy to prevent this. On the other hand it’s and adventure bike and it won’t be the last time I drop it or gets scratched. Might as well get over it. However, dropping it on pavement sucks.

Touratech sells this engine bar reinforcement bar but might be a little to late? I’m also eyeing the alt Rider engine Guard + skid plate (that is compatible with the stock upper crash bars, however the color might not be the same).

I got sad and my confidence is at an all time low but trying to remind myself that I bought this bike for this. I also plan to own it for at least 10 years so replacements are bound to happen. Hope I get over it soon.
 
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Not enough time on the big bike?

I tell myself, dont get too confident because something like this happens in a split second. I think some of it is just bad luck too, and we all just have to get back up on the horse and ride. I know how you feel. I dropped mine on a small slick slab of less than 20 feet long..., so there you go.
 
Ocho said:
Oh and I added some scars Saturday morning.
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Dang, I'm sorry to hear this. I know that feeling of the first scratch on a new bike is a real bummer.

Just glad to hear no injuries to you.
 
Ocho said:
Oh and I added some scars Saturday morning.

I got sad and my confidence is at an all time low but trying to remind myself that I bought this bike for this. I also plan to own it for at least 10 years so replacements are bound to happen. Hope I get over it soon.
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It's an adventure bike. And those water crossings are super slick. Everyone has dropped it there. One suggestion is be sure its in rain mode when doing these slick crossings and stay off the throttle and brake and no turning. Be on your pegs. Tires that give good wet surface traction should be slightly better on water crossings, but LINE IS EVERYTHING. Often slightly deeper water will have less of the slime. That moss is hard to even walk on, much less ride a motorcycle on. So don't feel too bad.

The shocker for me is that your crash guards still allowed the heads to get hit. Wow. I thought those would have kept it from doing that...
 
It always helps to have friends who, instead of scurrying to help right the bike, reach for their phone in order to document the event for use on TWT.
 
First crossing wasn't deep at all and very short. Might have picked the wrong line.

Second one I made sure throttle was closed, and careful of the line I chose, but @Elio mentioned I diverged to the middle and maybe that was it.

Dahveed said:
The shocker for me is that your crash guards still allowed the heads to get hit. Wow. I thought those would have kept it from doing that...
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Same for me. Now I either need to fix them somehow, or replace them and add a reinforcement like so: https://touratech-usa.com/store/BMW-Crash-Bar-Reinforcement-Kit-for-R1250GS-Adventure-Lower-OEM-Bars

Don't know what to do. The valve covers are now slightly sticking out of the bars since they're now bent inwards. If I drop it again it'll take the hit.

mitchntx said:
It always helps to have friends who, instead of scurrying to help right the bike, reach for their phone in order to document the event for use on TWT.
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I believe @Elio might have a video of it.
 
I always wonder if the middle or the tire track is the best bet on those deals.
 
Ocho said:
First crossing wasn't deep at all and very short. Might have picked the wrong line.

Second one I made sure throttle was closed, and careful of the line I chose, but @Elio mentioned I diverged to the middle and maybe that was it.



Same for me. Now I either need to fix them somehow, or replace them and add a reinforcement like so: https://touratech-usa.com/store/BMW-Crash-Bar-Reinforcement-Kit-for-R1250GS-Adventure-Lower-OEM-Bars

Don't know what to do. The valve covers are now slightly sticking out of the bars since they're now bent inwards. If I drop it again it'll take the hit.



I believe @Elio might have a video of it.
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The shallow crossings always seem to get slimy first and stay that way longer. The only hope for them is that the stream runs dry and kills the algae by drying it out. Deeper water is usually better (to an obvious point). A concrete water crossing is always risky. If you can't stand the chance of dropping it, go around.

I'd try bending the bars back out a little. I won't replace the heads covers yet. If you're going off-road, you'll likely drop it again.
 
You can do everything perfect on a water crossing and still go down. The force of the water alone on the side of the tire can be enough to wash the bike out from under you no matter what you do or how you react. That is just a basic reality of physics that cannot be avoided.

IF it is questionable, I will often park the bike and walk across the crossing. My boots are water proof. If it gets deep enough that it might go over the top of my boots while I am walking, then I am not likely to attempt the crossing unless it is a gravel bottom instead of a concrete crossing. While walking, I am sliding my boot soles in different areas trying to gauge potential traction. This worked well over the Memorial Day weekend on a long crossing in Arkansas. One part was quite slick, but another had loads of traction. I have tried the trick of using the tire tracks from two wheeled vehicles. It doesn't always work. They are often just as slick as the rest of the crossing. On some crossings, I have actually dismounted and walked the bike across. Even that can be difficult. I had one where the force of the water was causing me and the bike to slide toward the down stream edge of the crossing. Had I actually gone off that edge... :eek2:
 
Ocho said:
First crossing wasn't deep at all and very short. Might have picked the wrong line.

Second one I made sure throttle was closed, and careful of the line I chose, but @Elio mentioned I diverged to the middle and maybe that was it.



Same for me. Now I either need to fix them somehow, or replace them and add a reinforcement like so: https://touratech-usa.com/store/BMW-Crash-Bar-Reinforcement-Kit-for-R1250GS-Adventure-Lower-OEM-Bars

Don't know what to do. The valve covers are now slightly sticking out of the bars since they're now bent inwards. If I drop it again it'll take the hit.



I believe @Elio might have a video of it.
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Hola Jorge, no video this time. I was saving battery for the dirt section. Sorry. Next time I’ll make sure to have it on for those water crossings.

You missed the long water crossing. It was horrible, even to walk on it. One went down, then we all decided to walk the bikes with help. Chris was the only one that went down the river to cross. He got into deep sand all the way. We all had to jump in to the water to take him out. Lol. It was really an adventure ride.

Nice seeing you again!


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