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Super Duke disaster

jfink

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I suffered an MTC Failure on my newly acquired KTM Super Duke 1290. As I understand it, as explained on other forums and by the mechanic (Dan) at at Cycle Shack North, the MTC Failure is a catch all and doesn't always mean what it says. In my case, it meant disaster!

The first time I saw the failure was when I pulled into a parking lot and the bike died. Eventually I was able to get it restarted and it seemingly ran fine, although, looking back, I wonder if this is when it dropped the tang on the center spark plug and began running on only one plug in the front cylinder. I did notice it was a little more rough after that.

Here is a picture of the spark plugs. The one with the broken tang came from the center hole in the head. The other plug came from the offset hole.
gGSFQip-NHkOl7vYxfrakVrS9WD1YpB-ay0RqyWKMD4tF0oXyEiEvm1HbpMZHkJfJZNDQOc4LRwpwOVz9_l=w365-h647-no.jpg


After tearing down the bike to see where the broken tang went this is what was found. I wonder if the tang first lodged then hit the head, causing the indent, then slipped down the side and caused the damage to the rings and lands on the piston. Once broken, the piston allowed burning gas down the cylinder which caused oil starvation and scarring.

Small indentation on Cylinder Head (right center):
OtnJCUlY7WZ9EfD3ncsBnumx6fGZIndbq1q-wb5r8loCfMH3B15bXvpGszEpmvK6tpsobAN2oT4O39k77J=w1148-h647-no.jpg


The mechanic seems to think it was pre-ignition that caused the broken rings and lands. If that's the case the problem may be outside the cylinder. It also means the other cylinder will need to be torn down to see if there is any damage there. It also means that a "crate" engine, which is what the shop is pushing for, may not solve the problem. I hope at least for a crate engine. If I'm right, the lower end will need to be pulled apart to see if there is any additional material left in the bottom of the motor, which will probably be necessary in either case anyway.

Cylinder Wall Scouring:
1eJw407vDLUZS0eXCfSNmYUkbVX9Vjuvbq1164GVs1CPQn08TAZagExWcu5HixvUZdZbBxDyngYXhld5Tz=w1148-h647-no.jpg


More scouring on cylinder wall, opposite the scouring above:
NOOgmvSCvu8hfYR7CcT2vT7mMzJTcCE8yFT8FW7rREKDnV47oFn9aEsanLGZRRjDrlXG_KZ0V8dtCmNc3hk=w365-h647-no.jpg


Broke ring lands, scraper ring was also broken:
-aw9dcYb7VR18dzqH00V_VyLuvHIhxG9jk5VpTBny2E-kbanhy3KWgyJ3da4P2kNxtWtNp3wr_tVbH4MUG=w1148-h647-no.jpg


Jim, my riding buddy from long ago, who also just bought an SDGT thinks the bike was abused by the former owner. I really hope that Jim is wrong and that this is just a freak occurrence. If it was abused, there may be other unknown damage that is waiting to crop up.

More to come as we hear about what damage exists and what course of action KTM takes to resolve this. Hopefully, no ones else's MTC Failure has the same result as my case.
 

Windmill

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Is it my imagination, are the two plugs the same length and size? Maybe takes two different sizes?
 
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jfink

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Is it my imagination, are the two plugs the same length and size? Maybe takes two different sizes?
They are the same length but actually different diameters. A back yard mechanic shouldn't have a problem getting them into the right hole. :-)
 

bwdmax

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Damage like that definitely calls for a complete tear down. I would not settle for anything less. There is a high likelihood that derbies made it past that piston and is keeping your crank and big end of your connecting rods company down in that deep dark hole. The other cylinder may also help determine the cause. I would hope KTM will pull this one all the way down even if they give you a crate motor. I would ask if there is a test for the ECU, timing and or fueling could be to blame.
Good luck. Keep us posted.
 

Rsquared

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I really hope KTM steps up and treats you right on this, Joe.

I would be very curios to see inside the rear cylinder as well, as I think that would be very telling. As for the previous owner abusing it, I'm pretty sure it wasn't from wringing it's neck...


...
 
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Windmill

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Way I see it if it is under warranty they need to give you a new motor. Hope it goes well with you.
 

jfink

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The dealer has said they are pushing for a new "crate" motor. I am in Florida right now, my wife and I make an annual trek to West Palm Beach for spring training. But, I may give the dealer a call today to see what progress they have made.
 

Tourmeister

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Sorry to hear of your experience. Hope it works out the best for you.

You bought the bike used with a warranty?
Depending on mileage and age, the bike might still be under the factory warranty.

When I bought my first GS, I purchased an aftermarket extended warranty for it, which is not something I usually do. When the final drive came apart, that warranty paid for itself several times over! Money well spent in that case.
 

Dahveed

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Depending on mileage and age, the bike might still be under the factory warranty.

When I bought my first GS, I purchased an aftermarket extended warranty for it, which is not something I usually do. When the final drive came apart, that warranty paid for itself several times over! Money well spent in that case.
I usually don't purchase an extended warranty either. But for a used KTM and BMW it might be the smart purchase. That and keep an eye on the plugs to replace them before they crumble. This sounds like a very expensive repair.
 

mitchntx

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keep an eye on the plugs to replace them before they crumble. This sounds like a very expensive repair.
The motor in my '16 SA is the same motor design, just slightly detuned.

Hence the reason this thread piqued my interest.
 

Dahveed

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The motor in my '16 SA is the same motor design, just slightly detuned.

Hence the reason this thread piqued my interest.
It sounds like just keeping an eye on the spark plugs would prevent a total engine failure. Of course, those plugs aren't as easy to get to as they are on the BMW boxer
 

bwdmax

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I don't think the spark plug is the culprit. I think he is a victim of living in close proximity to disaster.

I wonder if the previous owner tried to tune the ECU or fool it with resistors or other circuit modifications.
 

Dahveed

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I don't think the spark plug is the culprit. I think he is a victim of living in close proximity to disaster.

I wonder if the previous owner tried to tune the ECU or fool it with resistors or other circuit modifications.
I assumed the spark plug exploded and the loose pieces of the end did all the damage. The OP said their mechanic thought pre-ignition caused the problem. Maybe the prior owner ran the engine with poor fuel? I don't know, but I'm curious to find out. I was thinking of getting a super duke, but I'm suddenly less interested. :eek2:
 

jfink

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I am very confident that the previous owner did not do much to the bike in terms of modifications. The Cycle Shack North in Conroe has received permission to take the entire engine apart and are going through everything. Cycle Shack is taking pictures and sending them to KTM. If there were any anomalies, I am sure I would hear about them. I would be there taking pictures myself, but I'm in Florida right now watching the Astros. Anyone willing to go down and take some pictures for a friend?

The warranty from KTM is for the bike and not the owner. It is a two year warranty from original purchase which was in 9/2017. It shouldn't be an issue with the warranty unless there were some issue with misuse or neglect. I bought the bike about a month ago with 1,721 miles on it, it now has around 2,500 miles. I would think there is not a lot someone would do with a bike that only has 1,721 miles on it. I checked the oil, chain, clutch and brake fluids and everything seemed as it should. I may should have changed the oil after buying it, even though the bike wasn't due for thousands miles. I did buy the bike from a dealership who told me that they had done maintenance on it, for what that is worth.
 
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jfink

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More photos from Cycle Shack North:

Small Indent seen in my pictures:
HoJDqkt2DdbH3JYpD1WHYGxk9_9y65OSDNwCl6G5mGud524gFNTdBVY8ipFRadlKryQ2n3ZxndfojPmcZC_=w364-h647-no.jpg


Something noted by the Mechanic, looks like a crack in the head?
ivshsv6-px8dKJfZQ1Szmf5ADHaCc09-Pi8xMJprC9tVnADgdTvNeX46I36_NTnpY1O-cKXtQt9ivnaUjtD=w364-h647-no.jpg


Scouring from a slightly different angle:
__2ESceas0wXOJuCO5q70zn-wk9a-tZylbkLDDA3zOpMGmXHV67B8FsTFW_ceuRqdrzOQYMlT8VXHN3Y8_E=w364-h647-no.jpg


Crown of rear cylinder piston:
SUhKHP3hgQiUx3ZR-bAuIwh3cSeNonutJBZa0Bq46ItHpsyfyylXe3tGeOeAoZIxnWXX6IlO_qmyZdMvD_y=w364-h647-no.jpg


Side view of rear piston:
O0KWkEE3mDP1BoPrBXiFlssBX5gqGmEZYEGgeL9dTbgrzocucz9g6d2abABKjLKtf4Vlj5coQnly974nCC=w1151-h647-no.jpg


Still waiting to hear about the direction from KTM but in the mechanics opinion there was no damage to the rear cylinder or piston, although I didn't get any pictures of the rear cylinder.
 
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Sorry to hear about the SD. Hope KTM does the replacement for you.

I changed the oil in my AT last week and got bit by the old oil filter gasket sticking to the engine. I have only changed the oil once before and, when I saw the black ring where the filter screwed on, I couldn't remember if it was there on the first change. I wiped it off fairly hard and it didn't move so I thought it was supposed to be there. Needless to say, once I got everything back together with the new oil in it and cranked it up, 4 of the 4.3 quarts ended up on the skid plate and the garage floor. After a lengthy cleanup session, removal of the old gasket, and 4 new quarts of oil, everything is back to normal. Glad I didn't try to ride it before checking things out. Good thing is my garage floor will never rust.
 
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Sorry to hear about the SD. Hope KTM does the replacement for you.

I changed the oil in my AT last week and got bit by the old oil filter gasket sticking to the engine. I have only changed the oil once before and, when I saw the black ring where the filter screwed on, I couldn't remember if it was there on the first change. I wiped it off fairly hard and it didn't move so I thought it was supposed to be there. Needless to say, once I got everything back together with the new oil in it and cranked it up, 4 of the 4.3 quarts ended up on the skid plate and the garage floor. After a lengthy cleanup session, removal of the old gasket, and 4 new quarts of oil, everything is back to normal. Glad I didn't try to ride it before checking things out. Good thing is my garage floor will never rust.
I did that in a minivan once and wife didn't catch it till too late. Got a pretty good knock, mechanic said to try some (can't remember for sure) Miracle 50??, anyway it worked till we got rid of it a few years later, very lucky.
 

Hotboot

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Low mile bike, purchased from a dealer who did the maintenance for resale. Install the new engine asap and get this owner back on the road. Option 2 is to get another SD of the same mileage and year for him. Option 3 is a full refund and / or credit towards a new KTM.
I hope this goes the right way for you man, fun bikes.
 

jfink

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Sorry to hear about the SD. Hope KTM does the replacement for you.

I changed the oil in my AT last week and got bit by the old oil filter gasket sticking to the engine. I have only changed the oil once before and, when I saw the black ring where the filter screwed on, I couldn't remember if it was there on the first change. I wiped it off fairly hard and it didn't move so I thought it was supposed to be there. Needless to say, once I got everything back together with the new oil in it and cranked it up, 4 of the 4.3 quarts ended up on the skid plate and the garage floor. After a lengthy cleanup session, removal of the old gasket, and 4 new quarts of oil, everything is back to normal. Glad I didn't try to ride it before checking things out. Good thing is my garage floor will never rust.
Sounds messy Jay. That's odd, based on my Honda experiences with the Wing, which I have not any trouble with oil changes. It's also an automotive type filter with a rubber ring. Messy oil problems are some of the worst. I save cardboard boxes from motorcycle parts I order and put them under the bike when I change my oil. I seldom manage to change oil without ruining the box. 4 quarts though would have run off the box. :-)

Didn't you have an issue on your Harley on a ride once where it lost some oil as well after a side cover came loose? I actually had a little oil leak Sunday on the Wing on the way to Orlando. I noticed the left foot peg was wet, but much more slippery that water. The right peg was dry? Stopped and noticed there was oil on the shift lever and a little on my boot. When I checked the valves last week, I didn't get the cover back on precisely. There is enough slop in the installation that it can leave a little gap at the top. I loosened the valve cover bolts, moved the cover may be a quarter inch and all was well.

I checked the oil a couple times on the SD within the five or six hundred miles I rode it. There is a handy sight glass for checking, as well as, low oil pressure and low oil level sensors. There is also an oil temperature sensor and I noticed that the oil temperature was running about 190, which I wondered if that was right or a little high.
 

Dahveed

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There is also an oil temperature sensor and I noticed that the oil temperature was running about 190, which I wondered if that was right or a little high.
190º sounds about right to me. The oil temp should be similar to the water temp in a water cooled engine. My water boxer's engine temp is 184º when running down the road. Fan kicks on at about 209º. I assume "engine temp" is water temp, but I'm not really sure how BMW measures it to be honest.
 
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