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Surging Cured

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I have been wanting to do this mod since i bought my bandit (removing secondaries). I am runnig a aftermarket pipe but just worried about running lean with without a PCIII/TFI and dont have the funds to purchase one. Would really like to do this mod can anyone give me some reassurance. Thanks
 
I ran for a few thousand miles with just an after-market muffler.... nothing else done. I was worried (like you), but I didn't let it slow me down!

It ran good, but my after-market can flows a lot of exhaust out of it's 2 1/12 inch outlet.... I suspected that I needed a little more back-pressure. I was able to perform a little modification and was pleased with the result.

Cutting to the chase, I wouldn't worry. I changed my spark plugs out and they looked PERFECT after having run the after-market muffler and no other modifications.

Then I ordered the TFI, K&N, and cut a hole in my air box lid in preperation for the Stage 1 mod'. But it didn't arrive in time for my weekend ride. So I put the dirty factory filter back in the bike, replaced the snorkel, and stuck the air box lid (with it's new 1 1/2 inch hole cut into it) back onto the bike. Between that factory air filter, the hole cut in the lid, and my after-market muffler in place.... by bike ran TITS!

So I wouldn't worry about it....
-- BUT --
when I stuck the TFI in, set it with the settings Holeshot gave me, and replaced the factory air filter with a K&N, my bike ran smoooooth!

Don't worry, then someday kick down the bucks and get the Stage 1 set up from Dale Walker of Holeshot~!
 
Thanks Fifty. I forgot to mension it in my first post but I am also wondering if removing the secondaries will lean me out as well?
 
Lemme be honest here:

Quite a few guys here have done mods with no worry of air/fuel ratio, and they claim no problems. I claim I had no problems while running just the can and no mapping..... but I still had my worries.

I put up the big bucks for Dale Walker's Stage 1 because HE KNOWS, HE SET UP, HE DETERMINED THE CORRECT TFI SETTINGS, for a perfect air/fuel ratio. I now KNOW that my air/fuel ratio is spot on, it's not running too lean nor is it running too hot; I paid for Holeshot's Stage 1 so I could have the confidence of Dale Walker's expertise, period.

Now..... when you take the secondaries out, Dale wants you to modify the air box lid accordingly. And he gives you different settings for the TFI mapping. Short-cuts and saving money do NOT give you the same kind of returns as doing it right..... think about it.

I feel so much better riding my bike with no lingering questions in the back of my head. Wait for others to chime in though, I just don't have the confidence in myself.... and I lack the knowledge.... that's why I trust those who make a living doing that sorta thang.
 
Fittysom'n said:
Now..... when you take the secondaries out, Dale wants you to modify the air box lid accordingly. And he gives you different settings for the TFI mapping. Short-cuts and saving money do NOT give you the same kind of returns as doing it right..... think about it.
Click to expand...

You're assuming that the TFI settings change because of removal of the secondaries and not because of the modified airbox lid? You can't make that assumption - the Holeshot mods are grouped in stages and there's no way for you and me to tell what affects the mixture the most within each stage.

I'm running fine without secondaries and no fuelling mods - I don't believe that their removal affects the mixture significantly except, perhaps, at very high revs.
 
sproggy said:
I'm running fine without secondaries and no fuelling mods - I don't believe that their removal affects the mixture significantly except, perhaps, at very high revs.
Click to expand...

+1. And what's more, just looking at Dale's stock dyno chart (blue line), the bike gets pretty rich at high RPMs stock anyway:

1250_dynochart2-1.jpg


I'm not concerned one bit.

trey
 
40-41 MPG with the secondaries out, top of the airbox cut off and Dale's new TFI settings.

This was a very "spirited" tank full too (hard accelerations and several times over 130) - just to test the changes... :trust:

Not bad :clap: (was getting mid/high 40's before)

Removing the secondaries is the best mod you can do in my opinion. The TFI, airbox, and even slip-on exhaust did not make the noticeable improvement that removing the secondaries did. The bike is soooo much smoother and responsive with them out. It is most noticeable to me traveling in low gear at a constant speed around 3000 RPMs (like on my residential street in 1st gear), the bike used to "buck" a bit under these conditions previously - but now it's smooth as silk.

This is a must do mod - and it's FREE! :rider:
 
Get the header to get your mpgs back. Stage II is a lot richer then with the header and the header will get you the last step in power to the road. Glade you like it though. I think that the 4-2-1 is almost the same jump as stage II is to stage I. The new rear sprocket for another $40 is another huge jump over 6K.

Mark
 
sproggy said:
It's like riding a new bike - absolutely no surging around 2,500rpm and the feeling of having a direct connection between right wrist and the throttle butterflies.
Click to expand...

I've been following the secondary removal thread, and am seriously thinking of doing it to mine. One question I have relates to a post Sproggy made. I don't have a tfi or any kind of mapping device. Will I suffer from that by removing the BFs? Will it be ok on a bone stock engine?
Whoops ! Guess I have one more question..you guys talk of Dale's cutting holes in the airbox. I looked online and can't find where he says anything about it.
Shotrod :eat:
 
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Shotrod said:
I've been following the secondary removal thread, and am seriously thinking of doing it to mine. One question I have relates to a post Sproggy made. I don't have a tfi or any kind of mapping device. Will I suffer from that by removing the BFs? Will it be ok on a bone stock engine?
Click to expand...

Sproggy and I both have secondaries removed w/o any kind of fueling mods and I can't imagine it's a problem... just smooth running. I'm not concerned about it.

Shotrod said:
Whoops ! Guess I have one more question..you guys talk of Dale's cutting holes in the airbox. I looked online and can't find where he says anything about it.
Click to expand...

http://www.holeshot.com/Bandit_1250/1250tfi_installation.html

Step 2. Personally, I wouldn't do that (cut holes in the airbox lid) w/o some kind of fuel adder (TFI, PC3), but rworm has and much more with stock fueling so... who knows.

trey
 
treybrad said:
Step 2. Personally, I wouldn't do that (cut holes in the airbox lid) w/o some kind of fuel adder (TFI, PC3), but rworm has and much more with stock fueling so... who knows.
Click to expand...

When I serviced the bike at the weekend I removed the rubber 'snorkel' from the airbox lid - it makes the intake hole a fair bit bigger without any cutting. My guess is that the snorkel is there for (induction) noise reasons as on many other modern bikes and removing it is an easily-reversible way to improve breathing slightly (maybe) without affecting mixture too much. Anyway, I'll run it that way for a few thousand miles and see how the plugs are at the next service.

There's a little bit more induction noise but it's buried a far way under the seat so not really that noticeable when riding.

It's running very smooth now but that'll be the throttle balance I did more than anything else. Moving all of the balance adjustment screws further in (averaging about half a turn out - was a full turn out) has further improved running between 2k and 3k rpm too.
 
I remember when I pulled the snorkel off my '06 DL1000. Made so much more noise that I put it back in again next time I had the Gas tank off. ;-(.
 
My last 2 tanks have been 44-45 MPG - not bad :clap:

(Slip on, TFI, Air box lid cut off, Secondaries removed) :rider:
 
Out of curiousity do dale's TFI settings account for altitude at all? I know he does all his testing at his facility at 200'.

I recently moved back from AZ (4300'-4800'+/-) to VA(15'-150'+/-) and never noticed the surging in AZ but now I have quite a bit around 2500-3300rpm and I will say I have noticed a very nice butt dyno increase just from losing 4000' alt. It was a lot easier to keep the nose down in 1st up there. my 18t down here feels like the 17t up there.

Found a tuning center close by and plan on removing secondaries and getting a tune very soon. Also, right now I'm using the o2 fitted map. Going to switch back to the o2 eliminated euro map and see what happens if it ever quits raining on the weekends.:giveup:

I do miss the never ending :sun:.
 
red757 said:
Out of curiousity do dale's TFI settings account for altitude at all? I know he does all his testing at his facility at 200'.
Click to expand...

Dale's settings don't account for altitude any more than Suzuki's original map does. They don't need to - the bike is fitted with an air pressure sensor that adjusts the fuelling to suit the air pressure wherever you are. So higher up where the air is thinner the fuel will be reduced to compensate - you'll lose power but your mixture will be correct.
 
There was some discussion early in the thread about disconnecting the STVA coupler. I know this sets the FI light (STVA Malfunction), but is this an accurate/safe "try before you buy" option?

I want to give this a try, but I do some riding on gravel and want to get an idea of what it's going to be like before I commit.

Thanks
 
Dahc said:
There was some discussion early in the thread about disconnecting the STVA coupler. I know this sets the FI light (STVA Malfunction), but is this an accurate/safe "try before you buy" option?
Click to expand...

No, in a word. That won't give the same effect at all as having the STV shaft free to rotate and still connected because it'll screw up the signal returned by the STV position sensor which is part of the actuator.
 
sproggy said:
Dale's settings don't account for altitude any more than Suzuki's original map does. They don't need to - the bike is fitted with an air pressure sensor that adjusts the fuelling to suit the air pressure wherever you are. So higher up where the air is thinner the fuel will be reduced to compensate - you'll lose power but your mixture will be correct.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. I was just curious because one of the tuners out in AZ said I would have to get my PC remapped when I moved back to the lower altitude.
 
red757 said:
Gotcha. I was just curious because one of the tuners out in AZ said I would have to get my PC remapped when I moved back to the lower altitude.
Click to expand...

Then that's a good tuner to avoid, as they obviously don't have a grasp of how fuel injection works....... Althought to be fair the adjustment for air pressure as allowed by the sensor probably isn't 100% accurate in terms of fuelling, but it's not like carbs that would potentially need re-jetting for different altitudes.
 
Thanks to Sproggy and all you other folks who posted on the secondary removal thread. I did mine today and it came out well. I had a few anxious moments with the airbox..( I'm supposed to be able to get that out of there??) until I realized I just had to move it back some.
I did not take off the throttle cables. Just covered the engine and set the Throttle bodies against the cyllinder. Like Sproggy, I drilled them out and used compressed air to make sure I got all the chips and pieces out.
Only got to take a quick ride back home, but bike seems a bit stronger and smoother now. No downside noted as yet.
One thing I did do different..instead of drilling Dale's big hole in the Airbox, I drilled two 1/2 inch holes next to the snorkle (one on each side) and left it in place. Didn't note an increase in noise, but haven't wound it up yet.
Shotrod :sun:
 
I just did my secondarys today, not a bad job. Took about 2.5 hrs start to finish. Like someone else said got seven screws out and broke tip of screwdriver off into number eight so I had to drill it(a real bee-atch) and I had used a soldering iron on each screws for about 1.5 minutes. I guess the trick is to buy a couple screwdrivers that fit and do only a four screws with each. Totally worth the effort, bike runs way better at all rpm with no surging or hunting. Pulls better at all rpm but you really notice the differance in mid to upper rpm. runs like a perfectly jetted carb bike which is better than just about any FI bike. My bike has the cat gutted, intake snorkel removed, stock air filter, no tfi, 02 connected and now runs like a 1250 should. BTW: anyone wanting one of the screws to the flies for the purpose of getting the perfect screwdriver can pm me and I will send it to you. Im never putting them back in. I bought a #oo posidrive and didnt use it as one in my tool box fit better so its best to have a screw to get the best fit when buying one.
 
rworm said:
@nd dyno run improved air/fuel as well
O/2 sensor is in mine
rworm
Click to expand...

rworm or anyone else that may know,
I realize this post is a thousand years old but I have some questions and am hoping you still have your ear to the ground here. I have an '07 1250S that I bought used a couple of years ago. It already had a Holeshot supertune pro on it and a Yosh slip-on. I dont understand how the Supertune stuff works but I want to remove the butterflies from the TB and mod the airbox. Im assuming some remapping or adjustments will be needed after. I removed the PAIR and EVAP systems last year and the bike runs great but Ive noticed a bit of smoke at times since the EVAP/PAIR systems came out. Any idea as to whether or not I will need to play with this supetune thing or have the bike reflashed after I do the butterflies and K&N air box hole? Thanks in advance.
 
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