• Welcome to the Two Wheeled Texans community! Feel free to hang out and lurk as long as you like. However, we would like to encourage you to register so that you can join the community and use the numerous features on the site. After registering, don't forget to post up an introduction!

TPS issue need advice

Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
New Zealand
GSF1250SA K7
After having a surging issue and doing a read on TPS settings I did a check using the dealer mode and found I also had the dreaded _C00
I did as read on the forums and adjusted the TPS until the reading just reached -C00 (paint on locking nut with screw required a full turn and a bit)
After this I started the bike and found that my revs when idling sat at 2400 rpm and then after a few minutes would increase to 3400 rpm. it would fluctuate between those high revs even after a 80km ride
Well thinking that all I needed was a ISC reset I took it into a Suzuki workshop and asked if they could reset the ISC. They told me that the screw I had turned was the secondaries and that was the reason that my revs were too high.They readjusted it back to where it again idled at 1200 rpm. The computer reading after they adjusted it back showed 26.5 on the throttle position sensor
They told me that they can't adjust the Throttle position sensor. Can anyone tell me what I possible did wrong or should I be calling another dealer to fix my TPS setting to -C00 as I'm seem not smart enough to fix it
Thanks in advance and for all the postings and information in the forums which I have spent hours reading
Darryn
 
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
New Zealand
Thanks rworm for the possible fix on the surging but i would like to eliminate the TPS issue first just in case. I have done all the reading on the site about TPS adjusting and I have found no one else that had there revs ending up so high (3400 rpm when idling) Others have had a increase of 200 to 400 rpm which has settled down over a few rides or stops and starts
 

Roy

Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
723
Reaction score
0
Location
Mississippi
First Name
Roy
With TPS set at the correct -C00 position turn all teh throttle body sync screws in to bottom then re-sync from there. They will only end up being 1/4 to 1/2 turn out when done. Your sucking too much air is the reason for the high idle. The set screw under Throttle bodies is the adjustment screw not the secondary adjustment. Dealers are idiots on this bike. You may have to re-learn the ISC ilde value it is covered in the service manual and you will need the SDS laptop hooked up to your bike. It may not take it after the 1st try but keep doing it. Main thing is get the sync before trying anything.
 
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
New Zealand
yep read all his posts beforehand and the info was fantastic
The worse thing is that I know others have down this without a issue and here the dealer is saying it cant be done. He was even surprised that the taco even still gave the -C00,_C00, readings when putting it into dealer mode. This is a large Suzuki dealership in our city and I thought they would know there stuff
I even took the carbs off again and double checked my settings
 
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
New Zealand
Thanks Roy for your response and information
I will give them a call tomorrow and see if we can fix this up as I dont own a SDS unit
Will update the posting on the result
 

Roy

Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
723
Reaction score
0
Location
Mississippi
First Name
Roy
Just remember these things are super sensitive to throttle body sync. If those screws are to far out it'll idle high but still show a good balance. Best way I found was to start with them bottomed out. I also use throttle body #2 as a base reference to set my guages. Also use Dale Walkers pull a vacumn on the IAP valve. This works better than the way Suzuki says do it. I just suck real hard on mine and pinch it off with a pair of hemostats. I tried using a mighty vac device to pull vacumn but could never get it to work right. I have messed with this alot on and off. Right now mine is as good as it's ever been and not one screw is more than 1/2 turn out from bottom. Bike idles and runs fine with very good fuel mileage and I even have the O2 hooked up and working online. A slight surge between 2800~3200 but barely detectable. Once the throttle body sync gets some miles on it over time it will surge more and that is when it's time to re-sync. The vibration in the seat will increase also. Not a perfect beast but it can be made to run well. The SDS re-learn ISC value part is really kind of stupid IMO, I only did it to go through the motions and like I said I had to mess with it for a while. Best you read up on the SDS functions because I doubt the shop boys will be much help. If you can type email and reboot or repair a pc you can use SDS;-) Just keep in mind SDS is a diagnostics tool 1st not a repair tool. Your idle is preset by the ECM and cannot be changed but that will be changed mechanically if your sync screws are too far out to begin with.
 
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
New Zealand
Thanks again for your advice Roy. I see the solution in your posting
Called dealer today who basically says again that the TPS is not adjustable according to them:doh:. He says that the the Throttle Position should be reading 26.7 and mine was close enough and to take no notice of the C00 readings on the taco
Said that the ISC ilde value learning reset sometimes will not take the re-learning if its outside certain parameters
He also said if it wasn't in his service manual then they dont do it:doh:
Was open for me to try Roys suggestion at my expense but he sounded really not too interested
Im starting to think my solution is to invest into a SDS unit
Roys right about some of your dealers not really knowing about this or even interested
Keen to put grease on the hands and give Roys idea a shot
Can anyone confirm what the Throttle position should be reading on the SDS unit from factory
Figure I'll check it when I have to hook it back up on there SDS
Reading on previous postings I've seen 27.9 or 27.5 and cant seem to find it in the workshop manual that I downloaded

Just a note for Red757 sorry I should have explained - took the carbs off again the first time I did the adjustment not after they had reset the screw back to its original position. Boy it hurt to watch a small handed service guy do it yesterday in place without removing the carbs

Cheers again for your info
Darryn
 

Roy

Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
723
Reaction score
0
Location
Mississippi
First Name
Roy
The -C00 is the correct setting regardless of what degree the computer spits out. check any Suzuki made since '97 with FI and they ALL refer to -C00 as the correct setting. The Bandit has a screwed up service manual also, I have found several problems with it. In fact it is the worst service manual to date I have ever tried to follow. Like I said get you a set of balancer guages and go from there. The SDS re-learn idle value probably won't be an issue once the sync is leaned in to the new TPS value of -C00. I only re-learned mine because I could use the SDS to clear a few error codes I had created messing with the FI on this thing. Tell your deale to go put any bike on his floor in dealer mode and tell me what it says? I 100% guarantee it will be -C00 unless of course that particular unit is out of whack.
 
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
New Zealand
Hi again Roy. Am in the process of ordering a Morgan Carbtune Pro. Do you recall what throttle position value showed on the SDS after your fine tuning. cheers Darryn
 

Roy

Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
723
Reaction score
0
Location
Mississippi
First Name
Roy
Hi again Roy. Am in the process of ordering a Morgan Carbtune Pro. Do you recall what throttle position value showed on the SDS after your fine tuning. cheers Darryn

I can't remember but I am sure it is in my main thread rworm made reference to. As long as yout dash readout is -C00 don't get to hung up on the valve degree. I don't think a 10th of a degree up or down will make much diference in the end. It really is a shame so many of the bandits have maladjusted throttle bodies right off the floor. Hang in there you will get it right once you see the balance on each cylinder in relation to a correct TPS setting.
 
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
New Zealand
Just waiting for my Mogan Carbtune to turn up then I going to give it a go
A few questions with the procedure as Im a novice with carb tunning but willing to learn

1. After I adjust the TPS screw, I turn all the throttle sync screws in and adjust them back using #2 as my guide line. Is my aim to adjust the throttle screws to set the idle down to around 1200rpm and balance them all the same there or am I looking for a gauge pressure on the Morgan Carbtune to set the at (boy hope that makes sense)

2. Do I turn the throttle screws all the way in or just enough to fell them seat and if they are at that position will the bike start

3. What will the signs for needing to connect to the SDS to reset the ISC idle learning (I guessing that the idle will not sit at 1200 but maybe a 200 to 300 above?)

Cheers
Darryn
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
519
Reaction score
0
Location
Between Pickles Gap & Toadsuck AR.
Just waiting for my Mogan Carbtune to turn up then I going to give it a go
A few questions with the procedure as Im a novice with carb tunning but willing to learn

1. After I adjust the TPS screw, I turn all the throttle sync screws in and adjust them back using #2 as my guide line. Is my aim to adjust the throttle screws to set the idle down to around 1200rpm and balance them all the same there or am I looking for a gauge pressure on the Morgan Carbtune to set the at (boy hope that makes sense)

2. Do I turn the throttle screws all the way in or just enough to fell them seat and if they are at that position will the bike start

3. What will the signs for needing to connect to the SDS to reset the ISC idle learning (I guessing that the idle will not sit at 1200 but maybe a 200 to 300 above?)

Cheers
Darryn

PhilS did a step by step with pics that may help you out...
 
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
New Zealand
Thanks Rworm for that. Between Roy and Phils great advice and guidance I have gained more confidence and now itching for my Morgan Carbtune to arrive. Just hit my 19000km mark and ready to do I full workover on the bike. Starting at checking the valve clearances then new plugs follered by tps adjustment and then by a carb sync. I'm must add after taking my bike for a ride today and even after the dealership did a carb sync its running worse that before. I am glad though because it has made me take a active step towards fixing this myself. Nothing worse than knowing that your bike should be running better than it is and scary realizing that your our local dealer really doesn't really share your enthusiasm. Will update the post on completion and result. Cheers Darryn
 
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
New Zealand
Haha . Now I get it. throttle bodies not carburetors :doh:. Thanks for clearing that up Gregh as you could tell I had no idea. Haven't had my hands on a bike since doing up the top end of my old Yammie IT225 boy it seemed easy back then or was it the few beers while doing it ;-)
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
188
Reaction score
0
Location
VA
Haha . Now I get it. throttle bodies not carburetors :doh:. Thanks for clearing that up Gregh as you could tell I had no idea. Haven't had my hands on a bike since doing up the top end of my old Yammie IT225 boy it seemed easy back then or was it the few beers while doing it ;-)

:rider:
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
4,685
Reaction score
69
Location
Jennings,La.
First Name
Andy
Last Name
Chesley
Actually , a Carb is an instrument that mixes gas and air to the right mix combining about 5 or 6 different tuning issues. The TB depends on the computer with all it's sensors to do the same thing. Still getting the right mix to the engine at the right time. So, you could call the whole system a Mixer? They call carbs that in the heydays of motor development.
I'm cool with anything you want to call it. ;-). I guess it's my old school approach to life.;-).
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
188
Reaction score
0
Location
VA
Actually , a Carb is an instrument that mixes gas and air to the right mix combining about 5 or 6 different tuning issues. The TB depends on the computer with all it's sensors to do the same thing. Still getting the right mix to the engine at the right time. So, you could call the whole system a Mixer? They call carbs that in the heydays of motor development.
I'm cool with anything you want to call it. ;-). I guess it's my old school approach to life.;-).
you can call an apple an orange but its still an apple.:rider:
 
Top