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Track day riding gear

It's a balancing act. They can accept enough people to pay the bills at lower prices or accept fewer people but have to charge higher prices. Figure they cut the number of people in half, then they likely would have to roughly double the price. From what I understand, they aren't raking in the money doing these track days. Most do it because they have a passion for it. Probably the easiest way to have fewer people on track with you is to move to the B session if you can (assuming you haven't already done that).
 
It was. During the 3rd session, I got fed up and blew past a group like the ones above using what I thought was decent passing technique, but caught some flack from an instructor for passing where I shouldn't have been.
Passing rules open up in the higher levels. Level 2 is quite a bit more open with straights and outside passes always open and there's no passing rules at all in L3 so you don't get held up as much.

Even so, other track days orgs do a better job of balancing cost vs crowded and might be a better choice.

I honestly can't imagine 30 people on the 1.3 without the ability to pass ever being fun for anyone. RS should know better.
 
Did my 4th track day to with Sport Rider Coaching at Eagle Canyon Raceway. That track is a complete blast. The new pavement is awesome.

Saw this post when I was scrolling down and then saw your overly crowded pics. Just wanted to let you know that the other half of ECR is supposed to be opening in mid-Nov. If we get a nice enough day, you can come as my guest if you want to just go get some track time, or of course you could have the option of doing the day with SRC.
 
Wish I had known you were out there, I would have come by to say hi. I showed up late and parked on the lower paddock area up near the clubhouse. I do remember passing a Triumph out there a few times. ;) I do try to make clean passes, especially when the students are out there. I had my camera running a bit, I'll see if I can get any screen captures for you.

Here is my FB live video from the parade lap of the new section. I think it can be fast if you hit your markers as Brad (ECR GM) mentioned one part where they expect the cars to be doing ~120mph. Keep the video muted until we stop and get out to talk about the track as the wind made the video annoying loud while driving. It is still loud from the wind while he is talking, but you can still hear him.
Jarrett: following Lindsey while she is showing the lines
Lindsey: okay, now go ahead and I'll follow you
Jarrett: nah, I'm good with the view back here. I mean, lets do another lap, there are a couple corners I need to follow you through again.
 
Unfortunately, no video. For some reason my GoPro would just stop recording after about 25 seconds, even with a full battery and space open on the sd card.
 
I didn't feel anything was unsafe, just different than I'd experienced before. Everyone on the track seems pretty cool.

Now I'm starting to wonder about a track bike :ponder::) Dugger seems to be high on the Ninja 400 for a newbie.
Lol. Yeah...familiar story.

I saw a couple SV650s for sale on CMRA. They are good track bikes to start with.

Ninja 400s are probably great too.
 
same thing I told someone else today: The 400 is THE small bike to get right now, so they essentially carry a premium. Right now is when racers with a 300 will be selling theirs in order to buy a 400 to do their winter build for next year, so you may be able to get a track ready 300 for less than 3k, maybe even under 2.5k.

And don't think that I have any issue with the SV650, I have 3 of them in my garage right now including one that I ran in a couple rounds of MotoAmerica this year. On Sunday though, I was having fun playing on my wife's near stock 300, including fully stock suspension (which will be upgraded some this off season). I use the 300 to help learn better corner entry and carrying speed through the corners, then work on applying it to my SV riding.

Oh, and welcome to the addiction, It's got a grip on you now! :) You are learning the great equation of riding: The correct number of motorcycles to own is 'n+1', where n = the number of motorcycles you currently own.

The bike I was riding on Sunday:
 

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Oh, and welcome to the addiction, It's got a grip on you now! :) You are learning the great equation of riding: The correct number of motorcycles to own is 'n+1', where n = the number of motorcycles you currently own.

Oh, he knows. 😜
 
Manny Poulis has 2 or 3 Ninja 400s for sale right now. Think he wants like 2800 stock and about 4k setup for track with clipons, rearsets, body work and cade guards.

Let me know if you can't find them on the CMRA facebook site.

I think Manny goes to auctions and finds sport bikes. He apparently gets them pretty cheap and passes them on with a small profit.
 
My big question right now is if I'm doing track days on a 1050cc / 148hp Speed Triple, would it be enjoyable to go to a Ninja 400 or SV650? Especially, if ECR is going to a bigger, faster track format? Not sure what I gain doing that other than a bike that costs less to crash.

For example, there was a guy on a Husky 701 out there this weekend and he was a better rider than I was, but I had to let him pass me as he couldn't make it by me in the corners and didn't have enough power to get by me in the straights. We ended up in 2 or 3 drag races where I chose to let off and let him go by because I didn't want to force him to stay behind me through another set of corners. If he had more bike, he would have just blown by given the chance.

Also, wondering about the naked versus sport thing. I see Kawi makes a Z400 as well. Not sure how the position and fairing makes things better on the track.
Small bikes give you confidence. My guess is that you rarely if ever use all the HP of your triple on the track and when you do, it scares you because you approach the corner so fast that you over brake in to it.

With a small bike, you use all the power and you learn to try and keep it fast in the corner so you don't lose all your momentum. You will be running wide open and trying to extend the brake marker just a bit deeper and carry just a bit more speed in the corner. You do it on a platform that is more forgiving and scares you a bit less so you build confidence faster.

Having said that, you're a big guy so you won't have fun with too little power as it just won't accelerate well. I wouldn't go below a 400.

I made most of my progress on a 2004 GSXR 750 with quality aftermarket suspension set up for me. It had about 110 hp which was probably a bit too much initially, but I made it work. In contrast, I had a street R1 with stock suspension before the GSXR and it scared me. I was scared to open it up because of the power, and scared of laying it down and damaging it since it had street fairings and was really pretty. I rode it very timidly and I progressed very slowly.

Point is...if you want to progress, get a bike with great suspension that you aren't afraid to push a bit on. You'll find yourself way more confident and progressing much faster.
 
My big question right now is if I'm doing track days on a 1050cc / 148hp Speed Triple, would it be enjoyable to go to a Ninja 400 or SV650? Especially, if ECR is going to a bigger, faster track format? Not sure what I gain doing that other than a bike that costs less to crash.

For example, there was a guy on a Husky 701 out there this weekend and he was a better rider than I was, but I had to let him pass me as he couldn't make it by me in the corners and didn't have enough power to get by me in the straights. We ended up in 2 or 3 drag races where I chose to let off and let him go by because I didn't want to force him to stay behind me through another set of corners. If he had more bike, he would have just blown by given the chance.

Also, wondering about the naked versus sport thing. I see Kawi makes a Z400 as well. Not sure how the position and fairing makes things better on the track.
I think it would be more fun running flat out on the 400, using all its power. Once you master going fast slow, you will be better on the triple.

I have more fun on scooters than crotch rockets.
"I'd rather ride a slow bike fast, than to ride a fast bike slow."

This is the whole reason I bought a trials bike(that I haven't rode in months(need to clean carb))
 
You will build skills faster on a small bike than you will on a big bike. One big skill you will learn is passing. To pass a bigger cc bike, you will need to learn to evaluate the rider in front of you, figure out where their weaknesses are, and then execute. I was passing larger cc bikes most of the day, usually on the entrance to turns by outbraking them or carrying more speed in the turn and passing on the exit where there was another turn shortly after so they didn't have a long straight to power back past me. It takes work and confidence in your riding, but the payoff is worth it when you are on a ULW bike and pass your friend who is on a 600. ;)

BTW, for T1 and T15 I don't start braking until the 3 marker. For T3 and T12 I don't brake until just after the 2 marker. I think the new back section will be more fun on a small bike with how technical it is, but that long uphill will kinda suck.
 
Thanks. What you said is true. I only use its full power in the straights for the most part. And when I do, I'm on the brakes probably too hard at the other end.

It makes sense. I got better on my Africa Twin by riding my CRF250's in the dirt. Stands to reason the same would be true on the track as well.

That said, the Speed Triple does have a Rain mode that takes the horsepower down into the 90's. That sufficient or is it also the physical size of the bike that also matters?
It's really several things, the top 3 are probably:

1.) Are you more worried about low sliding a nice bike than a track bike with a set of $300 fairings? If so, you'll hold yourself back.

2.) Larger rotating mass makes bikes harder to turn in initially and hold the line in the corner. It's not so much that the bike is heavier...but a liter bike is much harder to tip in with the larger engine mass spinning and wanting to go straight so you have to fight it more to turn it. You can retard the HP, but the engine mass is still the same. It's a very real thing. A Ninja 400 is way easier to hold a high corner speed than your triple.

3. ) 90 HP is way better than 140 but it is still a lot and frankly probably more than you are really confident in using. The 110 of my GSXR was really too much for me. I've still never really learned to give it WOT as soon as I can. Aaron Graham literally told me at that 3:16 track day that I was scared of using WOT as one of the things holding me back. (Having said that....I didn't have any traction control or ABS while I was learning like you do on the triple so maybe that would remediate the problem a bit)

Having said all of that, for me....it was really number 1. I certainly didn't want to crash but I needed a bike that I was willing to push hard enough that crashing was possible. Once I had a dedicated track bike, I immediately began riding with more confidence to understand what the bike was capable of. It's not like I crashed all the time. I actually only went down twice. But I was willing to find the limits and that made all the difference.

Also....it is pretty fun riding around the outside of a liter bike in the corners on a smaller bike or getting passed by one on the straight but then blowing by them on the brakes into the corner.

It's been said that it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow and that is true. However, it's also fun to ride a fast bike fast...but that's much harder to do. Most that can do it spent some time on a smaller bike at some point. It's just a bit easier to progress and build skill on a smaller bike.

Learning on a bigger bike is certainly possible. There are guys racing expert that started on liter bikes and have never ridden small bikes, but they are rare. Most of the fast guys spent significant seat time on smaller bikes at some point and learned the limits there that they transferred to the larger bikes later. It really depends on how fast you want to progress. Bottom line...You'll likely progress faster on a smaller bike that you aren't worried about pushing a bit more.
 
The 701 could have easily kept up and passed you in the corners with the right rider. 324 pound dry weight with 74hp is no slouch. I have the updated 690 SMC-R and up to 100 mph it will reel in most bikes if you can keep the front end down. Here's a little CBR300, so you are usually the limiting factor not the bike.
 
I have no doubt. One of the instructors on a Ninja 250 was lapping me the last time at Cresson 1.3.

Speaking of a Supermoto, how does it compare to a smaller track bike? Is learning on a Ninja 400 completely different than learning on a Supermoto?
It really depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend. If you want a dedicated track only bike I'd say small displacement bike, smaller investment if you destroy it, and you'll have to learn to carry corner speed to go fast. Skills that will transition to bigger bikes. The supermoto is pretty versatile, upright riding position like your Triumph, so it's usable on the street, you can take it offroad too with long suspension travel and you can always throw some 50/50 tires on it. Also, some kart tracks will allow supermotos (at least down here in Houston) or it would be good on the shorter road courses where you don't need higher top speeds. So fun on the street, and a capable track bike. Not cheap though. A ninja 400 has about 40hp and you really have to wring its neck to ride it. So it's a great beginner bike, or a dedicated track bike, but I wouldn't want it for a street bike unlike the supermoto. However, a new one is not cheap for what it is.
 
So small for me is somewhere between Z/Ninja400 and SV650?

What about a Street Triple 675? That's 106 hp. 416 lbs.

Is there a weight/hp sweet spot to shoot for?
It really depends on your goals.

If you want to really learn how to maintain corner speed, brake later and get on the gas earlier. I'd say you want something with a max of around 75 HP. I wouldn't worry about bike weight as a smaller bike will weigh less but my guess is that it will be sub 400 pounds and closer to 300.

Bottom line, you are looking for a bike that you can learn to ride to the limit.

One note though...plan to upgrade suspension on it when you get it. You are a big guy. You won't have confidence on a bike sprung and valved for someone half your size.

I'd really suggest buying used. This isn't a bike you'll keep for years. It's a bike to learn on, and then replace.

I saw a pair of SV650s on FB marketplace for 3K. Both had aftermarket suspension. Something like that gets you in cheap, allows you to learn and then you essentially sell for what you paid for it afterwards.

I realize you tend to buy new so you don't have to worry about repairs and such. You can do that too...it's just going to be expensive to buy a bike that you won't really keep that long and then spend 2K upgrading suspension and adding track options like rear sets and clip ons.

You may be different, but for me, when spending money for new, I'd tend to look for a bike I like and might want to keep rather than a utility based learning tool. Having a bike I really like that is new and shiny is a bit counter productive to the goal of having a bike I am willing to push and risk a bit more.

It's a bad example because it is not in the smaller bike category we are talking about, but I've never taken my Super Duke to the track. I'd really like to ride it hard on the track but I know I'd ride it conservatively and would likely be way faster on my track bike that I'm not really worried about. I'm certain I wouldn't progress very fast on the SD as I would ride it quite conservatively to ensure I brought it home without incident.
 
Michael Martin won 50 or more WERA endurance races, mainly riding for Team Suzuki in the big bike category. His team owner, John Ulrich, called him Miracle Man Michael Martin. It's no coincidence that the name of a major motorcycle exhaust company is M4. When I first met him in the early 80's, he was riding a 52 horsepower motorcycle at Texas World Speedway. It wasn't his first motorcycle. Roger Lee, Nicky and Tommy Haden all started racing on 50cc motorcycles. So did Ben Spies. Collin Edwards first ride on a roadrace course at Oak Hill was on a 50cc motorcycle although I never saw him actually race on one. Collin was already an AMA motocross rider with several amateur championships to his credit. One of those championships was on a 50cc bike. After he was an expert, but while still a teenager, John Kosinski rode a Triumph Bonneville which made less than 50 HP in stock form. His wasn't stock, but remember he was already an expert. It is soooo much easier to learn what it feels like to slide your rear tire coming out of a turn on a 300#, 50 HP motorcycle rather than a 500#, 180 HP motorcycle. Many other roadracing techniques are easier to learn on a small displacement motorcycle.
 
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