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Oil

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Sphpkr, is this some lame attempt to recover this thread from a serious hijacking?
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Not really, was just trying to figure out the "quote" function :?
On the other subject, I got to hear Steve's (Desmo) ST4 with D&D cans today. Sweeet!!!
 
Sphpkr,

:tab The easiest way to do a post is to highlight the text you want to quote, right click and select COPY. Then go to the message editing window. Hit the QUOTE button at the top of the window. Ity will put the following in the text:

That is the opening tag. Now place the cursor right after that and paste the text you copied. Then you need to close the quote tag. If you see an asterik on the quote button, it is expecting you to close the quotes. When you click the button, you'll see the following tag:
Click to expand...

Note that the only difference is the / inside the brackets. You don't have to use the buttons, you can just manually type the tags. The same is true for all of the different tags shown at the top of the editing window.

Adios,
 
Now how do you work the quote thing?

On the other subject, I got to hear Steve's (Desmo) ST4 with D&D cans today. Sweeet!!!
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Kelly, thanks. This is my first V-Twin (prevously many UJMs) and I love it, very addicting.

Back to the original thread, everything I have read says there is virtually no difference between car and motorcycle oil. Especially not enough to make them cost 5x more. Personally, I use Mobil 1 synthetic in the Duc. Partially out of convenience. I have a turbocharged sports car that also uses Mobil 1. I figure if it is good enough for a turbo that glows red hot, it is good enough for my bike.

Steve
 
Desmo said:
Back to the original thread, everything I have read says there is virtually no difference between car and motorcycle oil. Especially not enough to make them cost 5x more.
Steve
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Just make sure that the oil is not the energy conserving type for wet clutch applications. Probably not a concern for you Duc owners... :wink:
 
oils well.............

Mobil 1 15-50 syn. caused the starter clutches to slip in my VFR. The engine clutch had no problems, but it would spin out the starter clutch pawls hot or cold. Switched to Castrol Syntec and haven't had any other probs.
I've been a heavy diesel tech now for about 20 years. All of these engines have very extensive gear drives, along with turbochargers that see very high speeds and temps,(these turbos will jump into the 150,000rpm range very quickly). Rotella is one of the largest oils for this market. It does a great job of handling the shear problems associated with gear drives, resists temp break down, and fights acid build up very well. Rotella synthetic should do a great job of handling a M/C engines needs. How come I'm not using Rottela synthetic??? Cause I'm the cheapest B$%stard on the planet, and I worked a deal with a local distributor for Castrol.......That's just me 2 cents worth in case you have been told you are crazy for puttin that there diesel oil in yer motorcycle.....
Hey Scott.... Garrell and I may see you all in May at Eureka.. Probably stay at his Dads house in Holiday Island........And what's this I hear about you sellin off your VFR's????? Have you lost your ever luvin mind?????? You guys ride safe, Pat
 
Hey Pat!

:tab Split a room with Garrell and come stay at the Comfort Inn with the rest of us ;-) That way you don't have to worry about riding back to his Dad's place late in the evening after we've been "relaxing" :-P

:tab Yeah I know... crazy for selling the VFR's hehe. But it will be nice to do something different for a while. I've logged close to 100K combined on both VFR's in the last 3 years. The BMW R1150GS is a great street bike but can do some unpaved duty as well. We have tons of little backroads around here in the woods to explore. So it would be a lot of fun.

Adios,
 
Pro Cycles in Houston sells a 4 liter container of motul synthetic for $18-20. It's more expensive than regular automotive oil, but i guess it's not too bad for motorcycle specific oil. approx 4.29 - 4.80/qt.
 
Oil is such a touchy subject in motorcycle forums. Ok just a note so you know what I’m saying is not BS, I sell Amsoil synthetic lubricants. Amsoil certifies me for retail sales, commercial sales, and T1 referrals. In short I have to go to schools so I don’t give out the wrong information. Ok with that said I use Amsoil in every combustion engine thing we own it has performed with out flaw in every application. It is guaranteed in writing not to harm your application. It out performs every other synthetic in the 4 ball wear test (industry standard). You can by it retail cost is as high as $12.00 in Houston but if your interested I can get it factory direct to you for much less. If you want test results let me know Ive got a ton of them
 
Um...guess it's time for me to jump in here. I do engine research and testing at Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio Texas for the past 22+ years. Most of the work is oil testing/certification. I'm a Staff Engineer and in charge of the Heavy Duty diesel engine oil programs. My preferences are syn oils, bike specific 1st choice, and HD Diesel as a 2nd choice and lastly Mobil 1 15W-50 red cap. I use 15W or 20W-50's in everything for superior wear protection and thermal stability. I do not like any 10W's and will never, ever use anything lower than that unless at the North pole. Our testing both full scale and using radio-active engine components show 2-10 times less wear on a 20W-50 versus a 10W-30 everything else being the same except the viscometrics. The main property that measures this is HTHS, high temp/high shear vis, the 20W-50 was 5.3 cP and the 10W-30 was 3.2 cP. The best wear I've seen on all of the tests I ever performed were 20W-50's. Some other oils like 15W-40's come close
but never as good as the higher vis oils do. I have done lots of used oil analysis on bikes and have seen some huge differences. My bike on Mobil 1 20W-50 has aluminum and iron levels of 20 and 10 ppm. Another bike using 10W-40 Honda oil was 200 and 100 ! Big difference. Every bike I've checked so far has had 3-5 % fuel dilution. Some had viscosities as low as a SAE 20 that were 40 or 50 grades to begin with. Not good. I now change my oil every 3000 miles mainly to keep vis from getting too low. It is true that most syn 20W-50's have no viscosity improvers and can't shear down.
MB1 has a HTHS of 5.44, highest I've seen so far.
 
Trying to add some actual data on ring and cylinder wear rates vesus SAE grade/HTHS/Vis...

Graphs of ring wear

[big image, use the url tag. I fixed it. Admin.]

I give up, help ? I do know if you copy and paste this link it goes to the pic I wanted to post... :chug:
 
Hey ScootR.... Good to have your experience on board here.

I have been trying different oils lately. All these are dead dinosaur oils. I'll buy a case of something and see how it compares. I have used Valvoline, Pennzoil, Castrol, and now Halvoline. All were 10w-30 which is recommended for my bike. Oddly enough its the cheapest stuff (halvoline) that seems to perform the best. I commute all the time in city traffic. This means that I change my oil pretty quickly, about every 1000 miles. I usually change the filter every other oil change. I judge when to change my oil by how hard it is to find neutral. Highly scientific, I know :roll: . But it seems to work. Valvoline and Pennzoil lasted about 800 miles before getting stiff. Castrol was even less :-? . The Halvoline is at 800 miles right now and the shifting is still slick as greased owl schitt :-D . I will probably try the rotella next because of the glowing reviews here.....


ScootR, what do I have to do to get you an oil sample? And what will it tell me about my bike and choice of oil?
 
Send it to me along with 4 oz of the new oil too.

Attn S. M. Richards/Div 08
Southwest Research Institute
6220 Culebra Road
San Antonio Texas
78238-5166

I've done over a dozen bikes now. I can tell how good I think the oil is and if there are any unusual signs of wear or other problems like fuel dilution, coolant in oil, bad air filter, etc...
I would not use any 10W oils at all. Are the oils you are using "energy conserving" 10W-30's ? What kind of bike is it ? Strange they call for a 10W-30 and even stranger you can sense a loss in performance based soley on shift feel. 800 miles is an unbelieveably short drain interval BTW. You must have money and oil to burn !
 
ScootR said:
I would not use any 10W oils at all. Are the oils you are using "energy conserving" 10W-30's ? What kind of bike is it ? Strange they call for a 10W-30 and even stranger you can sense a loss in performance based soley on shift feel. 800 miles is an unbelieveably short drain interval BTW. You must have money and oil to burn !
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Its an '81 Suzuki GS 750E. Completely air cooled. 10w-30 is what the factory called for. Its even stamped on the filler cap. I commute 3.5 miles each way, everyday. I think that might have something to do with the short intervals. These are not energy conserving oils. Just the most standard, cheapest, dead dino you can get. I don't necessarily judge the oil change interval by shift "feel" so much as how hard it is to find neutral. When the oil is old it will be very hard to go into neutral. It just clicks between 1st and 2nd over and over.

I certainly don't have money to pour down the drain (pun intended ;-) ). If I could find something that let me go 2-3k miles between changes I would be ecstatic. Of course I'm not ruling out the fact that the bike itself could be destroying the oil. You may find gas and water and little bug parts in there for all I know :lol: .

I will send you a sample the next time I service the bike. Thank you very much for the factual information that you provide to this mysterious subject....

:chug:
 
I was thinking about you at lunch today as I was talking with a Chevron guy about oil compatibility
issues. Most oil companies test to see if their oils are compatible with others, maybe 40 different brands. But this consist of bench tests not actual engine testing. I've seen research that showed this is probably not a wise thing for you to do changing brands/types of oil all the time. These engines can hang-up a 1/2 qt of oil out of ~ 3.5, ~ 14 % dilution.
I've seen cases where one oil's additive package can totally deactivate another's anti-wear additive. Some of the additives in oils are very surface active like dispersants, anit-wear, etc... and because of this all oils are extremely fine balances of properties and mixing different brands and/or types can be very dangerous. Sometimes even adding more of one type of additive can screw up the whole oil. More is not always better. Many additves are polar and compete with each other, the dirt, the water, and the metal parts are all trying
to attract/attach themselfs. I would suggest you pick one brand and stick to it.
 
ScootR,

What do you recommend for the VFR 800?

Adios,
 
I believe in higher vis grades, SAE 40 or I prefer 50's. I don't like 10W anything. Have always see wear problems and deposit problems with 10W's. Lower base oil I guess. I like 15W or 20W. Me ? I use Mobil 1 15W-50 Red cap in all cars/trucks. I use the Mobil 1 20W-50 V-Twin bike oil in both bikes. 2002 VFR and 2001 Magna. Don't let the V-twin scare you off, just marketing, I know the formulator personally and he told me and I confirmed via analysis it is the exact same additive package as their MX 4T 10W-40, just different base stocks. Matter of fact, the 20W-50 has no viscosity improvers at all and therefore can't shear down.
It is a full syn and I prefer syns. A good 2nd choice
for a bike would be the MB1 15W-50, still has lots of anti-wear and no friction modiers as it is not energy conserving. I recently checked their new blend and it still looks good. 3rd choice for bikes would be HD Diesel oils like DELO-400 or Shell Rotella T, 15W-40's, excellent oils. All mono-grades are junk now, cheap oil and additives used. All the work goes into multi-grades for the past 20 years or so.

I'm testing the Shell Advance Ultra 4 15W-50 m/c oil. Got it direct from a friend at Shell as it is not sold in the US, yet. Trying to change that ! It's analysis looked great and should be checking the used oil from my VFR very soon. I know Shell very well and they don't screw around. Shell is factory fill for Ducati and Ferrari.
 
I have been using the Rotella 15-40 for some time now in the VFR. I am experiencing what I think may be slight clutch slippage in the 01 with 46K miles on it. Some time way way back, between 6K and maybe 30K miles, I was running the Mobil 1 15-50. I switched because the Rotella was literally bucket loads cheaper at Sam's Club. The slight slippage was also noticeable before the switch though. Interestingly, our 98 was given the same oils during that time and ridden harder than the 01 on a regular basis. It never has had any hint of slippage. :shrug:

I wonder if I just need to have the clutch looked at?

Adios,
 
What makes you think that ? Are you seeing a rise in rpm w/o any change in mph ? These kinds of things are usually mechanical and not lube related IMO.
 
:tab Occasionally, when I take off in first gear, when I am slipping the clutch, I will get a strange shuddering sound. Hard to describe really. The RPM's are going up but it is hard to tell if that is from the intentional slipping or unintentional slipping of the clutch. Once the bike is under way, I've never had any other problems.
 
ScootR said:
Oh...what are you doing up there in my old school grounds ? BSME class of 81 here.
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I work here. At the Rudder Theater Complex. I am a very bored sound guy. My wife graduated in '00 with a BS in environmental science, but she stays at home with the kids (Joseph 2yo and Grace 4yo).

ScootR said:
I would suggest you pick one brand and stick to it.
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Thats what I'm attempting to do. I just wanted to find the best cheap oil for my bike. Maybe I'm to blame for the short lived oil? Wouldn't be the first time I goobered something up :suicide: . When I run through this case of Halvoline I think I'll buy the Rotella and stick with it for a while. I might do a nice flush on the first oil change so I have mostly Rotella in it. I'm thinking do an oil/filter change and then ride 15/20 miles then doing a drain and refill. Would this help when changing brands/types of oil?

And thanks again.
 
I know this is an old thread to resurrect, but I've been looking into the whole oil thing the past couple of days.

My conclusion thus far based upon discussions in about 4 different forums is that I can do no wrong with the Rotella 15-40.

For those using Mobil 1, the guys on one of the Wing boards are discussing the fact that Mobil has reformulated their MB1 and it is no longer recommended for wet clutches.

There is also discussion on COG that Wal-Mart is going to stop carrying this oil. I'll try to get to Sam's / Wal-Mart tomorrow to check it out.
 
I use the Castrol Act-Evo Semi-synthetic oil in my Triumph, the manual says to use synthetic oil. It was recommended by The Euro Shop in Waco and they use it for a lot of their oil changes. A 4L jug is $18.95 vs. the $48.00 for the Triumph oil which is actually Mobil 1 MC oil. Cycle Gear has the Castrol also for I think a buck or two cheaper.
 
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