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question for police/MD Police video confiscation (merged)

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JasonJ

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i just watched a helmet cam of a guy who got pulled over by the police. he posted the video on youtube, and when it was brought to the cops attention (that the video was on youtube) they went to his house and took his computers and camera, and told him he will be arrested for illegally recording police, which carries up to a 5 year jail term (this is not in texas).

if you have a helmet cam running, and get pulled over, are you allowed to record it? for that matter, could you start the recorder on an iphone etc and record the stop?
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

What's the link at ewe-toob for this?
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

What's the link at ewe-toob for this?

i really dont want to post it, this will rapidly become one of "those" threads if i do. it doesnt paint a pretty picture of the cop. i'll pm it to you.

all i want is an answer to my questions :)
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

I cannot find a reference for it unless they make a case that he is obstructing justice in some manner...I don't think anyone likes a microscope on them but I have seen videos go both ways;-)
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

I watched a half-hour reality TV show about Bubba Smith on Speed the other night. Toward the end of the episode, he and his buddies get pulled over. The cop tells Smith, "Have your friend [pointing at the videographer] turn off the camera right now."

So why would this cop care whether or not he's being taped? I mean, if he plans on doing everything in a reasonable, by-the-book manner, what's the problem? The truth is, it can cause a lot of problems for the officer, depending on circumstances.

It's also important to note that the police themselves can reach down and turn off their own camera audio (and sometimes video, too, depending on system type) via a switch on their gear belts. There are a variety of reasons for this. For example, if the cop is gonna say something that he feels may make the tape inadmissible in court or cause controversy, he can omit the audio. Generally speaking, it's about manipulating the equipment to build the best case. Those things are obviously hard to control when it's someone else's camera and mic.
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

I watched a half-hour reality TV show about Bubba Smith on Speed the other night. Toward the end of the episode, he and his buddies get pulled over. The cop tells Smith, "Have your friend [pointing at the videographer] turn off the camera right now."

So why would this cop care whether or not he's being taped? I mean, if he plans on doing everything in a reasonable, by-the-book manner, what's the problem? The truth is, it can cause a lot of problems for the officer, depending on circumstances.

It's also important to note that the police themselves can reach down and turn off their own camera audio (and sometimes video, too, depending on system type) via a switch on their gear belts. There are a variety of reasons for this. For example, if the cop is gonna say something that he feels may make the tape inadmissible in court or cause controversy, he can omit the audio. Generally speaking, it's about manipulating the equipment to build the best case. Those things are obviously hard to control when it's someone else's camera and mic.

SAd to say but TRUE:sun: I understand folks make mistake but some deliberately abuse the position of authority. Seen many a new officer get a badge and become a god in their own mind:sun:
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

i'm just lookin' to find out if recording is legal in texas.
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

SAd to say but TRUE:sun: I understand folks make mistake but some deliberately abuse the position of authority. Seen many a new officer get a badge and become a god in their own mind:sun:

Yessir. Agreed.

BTW, found it. Watch what the cop does. He gets out of an unmarked car in plain clothes and pulls a gun on the motorcyclist without identifying himself. He's lucky the rider wasn't armed. Me and that cop would've been in a gunfight real quick:

http://www.abc2news.com/news/local/...ged-for-Recording/pfFRVeEePU6qFr5fAq-tlA.cspx
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

I believe TX is one of those states where only one party has to be aware of video/audio recording. In other words, you couldn't voyeuristically record a conversation between two people unbeknown to either of them. But you could record a conversation between you and someone, else even if the other person didn't know you were doing it. That varies from state to state, though. Some states it's a one party knows rule and in other states it's a both parties must know rule. Someone with better legal knowledge should verify, but I think that TX is the former. Looks like he was in a both parties must know state.

That said, he has a very arguable defense. The recording device was in plain sight. He was in a completely public space with no expectation of privacy. And he did not initiate the contact. If he were sitting in a public park recording his kid playing on the monkey bars with a camera in plain sight and someone walked up to him and said something, it would be very hard to argue that he committed a crime. And talk about bad press for the police department. Whatever legal counsel advised them to pursue this case needs to really reevaluate his priorities. The "perp" wasn't pressing charges or filing complaints. They should have just let it go. All they did by opening this can of worms is increase the visibility of the incident and give more ammunition to those who see them as jack-booted thugs.
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

Exactly. My guess is that the whole case gets quietly dropped once cooler heads prevail and the media proliferates. What a waste of taxpayer dollars. Plus, the kid is a military veteran, for goodness' sake. This has "PR nightmare" written all over it.
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

Simple answer,, In TX only one party has to consent to the recording. I am not a lawyer ,,, I have been in front of a judge and jury in TX reference this law and it's application.
TEXAS WIRETAPPING LAW
In a Nutshell
1. One party consent is required.
2. Violation is a felony.
3. A law suit may also be brought in civil court
Texas law makes it a second-degree felony to intentionally intercept (using a device) or attempt to intercept any wire, electronic or oral communication, or have someone intercept a communication on one's behalf. Violation is punishable by imprisonment of two to twenty years, a fine of up to $10,000 or both.
It is also prohibited to intentionally use, attempt to use or have someone else use "any electronic, mechanical, or other device" to intercept an oral communication when the device transmits by radio or by a signal through "a wire, cable, or other like connection" used in wire communication.
Texas also makes it illegal to intentionally disclose any information concerning the substance, purport or meaning of such a communication if one knows or has reason to know that the information was obtained in violation of the statute. An offense is committed when someone uses the contents of a communication if he or she knows or is "reckless" about whether the information was obtained by an unlawful interception.
It is an offense to "knowingly or intentionally effect a covert entry" (meaning an illegal trespass) for the purpose of intercepting wire, oral or electronic communications without court order or authorization.
Reasonable expectation of privacy The statute requires a reasonable expectation of privacy for oral communications. To be protected, an oral communication must be uttered by a person exhibiting an expectation that the communication is not subject to interception, under circumstances that justify that expectation.
Consent In Texas it is legal for a person to intercept a communication in which the person is a party to the communication or when one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to the interception, unless the communication is intercepted for the purpose of committing a crime, tort or any other injurious act.
What is covered It is legal to intercept radio communications that are transmitted by any governmental, law enforcement, civil defense or public safety communications system if they are readily accessible to the general public. A 1997 amendment makes it illegal to intercept radio communications transmitted by law enforcement representatives to or from a mobile data
terminal. The 1997 amendment also makes interception of a cordless telephone communication transmitted between a cordless telephone handset and a base unit illegal.
A person is guilty of a state jail felony if he or she possesses a device and knows or has reason to know that the device is designed primarily for nonconsensual interception of communications and that it has been or will be used for an unlawful purpose. The violation is punishable by a jail term of between 180 days and two years, a fine of up to $10,000 or both. Any device used or possessed in violation of the statute may be seized and forfeited to the state.
Civil remedies A party to a communication may sue a person who intercepts, attempts to intercept, or gets someone else to intercept or attempt to intercept the communication; or who uses or divulges information that he knows or reasonably should know was obtained by interception of the communication.
A person whose communication is intercepted may obtain an injunction prohibiting further interception as well as "divulgence or use of information" obtained by an interception. The plaintiff may also receive either actual damages or statutory damages calculated at $100 per day of violation or $1,000, whichever is higher. Punitive damages, reasonable attorney's fees and court costs are also available.
Sources Texas [Penal] Code Annotated Sections 12.33, 12.35, 16.01 (West 1997); 1997 Tex. Gen. Laws 1051; Texas [Civil Practice and Remedies] Code Annotated Sections 123.002, 123.004 (West 1997); Texas Code of Criminal Procedure Annotated Article 18.20 (West 1997).
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

Yessir. Agreed.

BTW, found it. Watch what the cop does. He gets out of an unmarked car in plain clothes and pulls a gun on the motorcyclist without identifying himself. He's lucky the rider wasn't armed. Me and that cop would've been in a gunfight real quick:

http://www.abc2news.com/news/local/...ged-for-Recording/pfFRVeEePU6qFr5fAq-tlA.cspx

No offense, but in that situation by the time you see the guy with a gun drawn, take a half second to react, try and pull your firearm, and aim.... you would already be dead. Well, unless you compare yourself with Mr. cowboy marshal on "Justified"....:rofl:

Sorry to rain on your fantasy.;-)
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

Even told the callroom operater that you are recording the conversation for historical purposes, after you get the standard "this call maybe recorded for training .... blah, blah".

You seam to get way better service than if you do not.

Funny how that works !!
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

I watched a half-hour reality TV show about Bubba Smith on Speed the other night. Toward the end of the episode, he and his buddies get pulled over. The cop tells Smith, "Have your friend [pointing at the videographer] turn off the camera right now."

So why would this cop care whether or not he's being taped? I mean, if he plans on doing everything in a reasonable, by-the-book manner, what's the problem? The truth is, it can cause a lot of problems for the officer, depending on circumstances.

It's also important to note that the police themselves can reach down and turn off their own camera audio (and sometimes video, too, depending on system type) via a switch on their gear belts. There are a variety of reasons for this. For example, if the cop is gonna say something that he feels may make the tape inadmissible in court or cause controversy, he can omit the audio. Generally speaking, it's about manipulating the equipment to build the best case. Those things are obviously hard to control when it's someone else's camera and mic.

The reason for having the other person turn their camera off? How about the fact that that person can edit the video any way they see fit and post it on you tube with no controls? And of course by the time the PD posts an unedited version of the encounter public opinion is already firmly against the officer and that PD....but of course that would never happen would it?

Me? I don't really care....as our chief told some activists when they thought that threatening to video every stop they saw "go ahead....our officers are already being taped"....the only caveat I add is that you will keep a safe distance from me or I will make sure your movements are restricted so that I am safe during my stop/investigation.....and yes, case law does back me up on this.

Yessir. Agreed.

BTW, found it. Watch what the cop does. He gets out of an unmarked car in plain clothes and pulls a gun on the motorcyclist without identifying himself. He's lucky the rider wasn't armed. Me and that cop would've been in a gunfight real quick:

http://www.abc2news.com/news/local/...ged-for-Recording/pfFRVeEePU6qFr5fAq-tlA.cspx

Yeah....right. You and I need to try an experiment sometime...with paintball guns of course..I'll point a gun at you...you try to draw your gun from wherever you have concealed it and get a round off before you get lit up. There's a little thing called the OODA loop which pretty much dictates that I win this little encounter.
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

No offense, but in that situation by the time you see the guy with a gun drawn, take a half second to react, try and pull your firearm, and aim.... you would already be dead. Well, unless you compare yourself with Mr. cowboy marshal on "Justified"....:rofl:

Sorry to rain on your fantasy.;-)
Your assuming the only option open to rider is to draw a weapon,, He had another weapon at his disposal.. The bike,,,

Bottom line,,,Come at me with a gun,, like that dirt bag,, I will react in a manner using all available weapons at my hand to neutralize the agressor... my CH is just one such tool available.

I'll raise your mistaken assessment of the available options to the rider and offer a donation to the widow and orphans fund to that officers surviving family.
 
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Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

Your assuming the only option open to rider is to draw a weapon,, He had another weapon at his disposal.. The bike,,,

Bottom line,,,Come at me with a gun,, like that dirt bag,, I will react in a manner using all available weapons at my hand to neutralize the agressor... my CH is just one such tool available.

I'll raise your mistaken assessment of the available options to the rider and raise you a donation and orphans fund donation to that officers surviving family.


ummm...yeah....not like a bike can be side stepped or some such....

So after a five second video tape the officer is a "dirt bag".....hmmmm....yeah...nothing like make snap judgements about people. If I were to apply your standards to you after this post you would be on the "ignore" list. :zen:

Could the officer have handled this situation better? You bet.

Could the rider have avoided this whole situation if he had chosen to ride in a socially responsible manner? Also...you bet.
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

So, getting back to the original question... It is legal to video an officer as long as you are not in their space or interfering in some way?
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

for reference, i asked the original question because i plan on purchasing a gopro for a trip i am making this summer, and then thought i would use it on my commute in the event it could help with any insurance issues that may arise. i just wanted to know the legalities of having a camera going if i ever got pulled over. :giveup:
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

ummm...yeah....not like a bike can be side stepped or some such....

So after a five second video tape the officer is a "dirt bag".....hmmmm....yeah...nothing like make snap judgments about people. If I were to apply your standards to you after this post you would be on the "ignore" list. :zen:
Feel free to set said forum option.

I have utmost respect for LEO's have no resort for those that FAIL to follow the law and policy them selfs.. You want to brandish a weapon in plain clothes after exiting an unmarked car.. You are a threat and will be dealt with as a deadly threat. What that Law Enforcement Officer did was wrong as viewed in the video. If there is more to the story that explains why he choice to take the action he did, I'd be happy to read, examine it it and re asses my opinion. But from all available information available I stand my nut opinion.... This one is a dirt bag.... I'll still have a beer with two LEO's tonight,,, I'll ask then what they think of my observation and opinion.
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

So, getting back to the original question... It is legal to video an officer as long as you are not in their space or interfering in some way?
See my post above.. IMHO the answer is NO it is not illegal, and NO you do not even have to tell them.. Only one person has to consent..
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

ummm...yeah....not like a bike can be side stepped or some such....

So after a five second video tape the officer is a "dirt bag".....hmmmm....yeah...nothing like make snap judgements about people. If I were to apply your standards to you after this post you would be on the "ignore" list. :zen:

I sort of assumed he was talking about those first two steps out of the car. At that point in time, the officer is pretty well hemmed in between the body of the car and the door. Not much room to dodge, and it looked to me like he took a real risk by getting out that close to the bike. If the rider's first instinct, when seeing the gun, was "Floor it and dump the clutch" the bike could have covered that distance awfully fast. I guess he was out of that metal funnel by the time he drew his gun, maybe.

Also in that same time frame, all the rider knows is "Dirtbag with a gun." If his first words when opening the door were "State Police" it would have been a lot safer for everybody.

Still none of it would have happened if he hadn't been out doing wheelies on the freeway.
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

Feel free to set said forum option.

I have utmost respect for LEO's have no resort for those that FAIL to follow the law and policy them selfs.. You want to brandish a weapon in plain clothes after exiting an unmarked car.. You are a threat and will be dealt with as a deadly threat. What that Law Enforcement Officer did was wrong as viewed in the video. If there is more to the story that explains why he choice to take the action he did, I'd be happy to read, examine it it and re asses my opinion. But from all available information available I stand my nut opinion.... This one is a dirt bag.... I'll still have a beer with two LEO's tonight,,, I'll ask then what they think of my observation and opinion.

So....one bad/stupid action makes a man a dirtbag? Hmmm....guess you have never done anything bad/stupid in your lifetime then? Or is this standard you uphold only for others and not yourself?

By the way, what does "have no resort for those that FAIL to follow the law and policy them selfs." mean? I am sure there was a coherent thought in there somewhere....oh wait...based on your own standards for others, I guess you should now be considered an illiterate person unable to form a coherent thought based on that one sentence. :lol2:

Have a cold one for me..I ran out of beer and haven't stopped by the beer store yet....and I think your LEO friends will have my opinion: this is an officer who made a bad choice and unless he has a history of these kind of actions he is not a dirt bag, but an officer who didn't think things through in this particular circumstance.

One thing I would like to know is how long was that marked squad behind the squid before the first officer decided to corral the bike? Perhaps the squid was looking like he was fixing to run? I know in my time on the street I have found that those who do wheelies on the freeway aren't real big on pulling over when caught.
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

So, getting back to the original question... It is legal to video an officer as long as you are not in their space or interfering in some way?

Yes Kurt...based on law, not opinion, it is legal to record an officer in Texas as long as you do not become a safety issue...even then the recording itself is not illegal.
 
Re: question for police regarding video/sound recording

Perhaps the squid was looking like he was fixing to run? I know in my time on the street I have found that those who do wheelies on the freeway aren't real big on pulling over when caught.
Even IF that was how it was, fleeing is not a shooting offense. He stopped once, most of my LEO friends would consider that a good move and an indication he was not going to run.
 
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