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The Status of motorcycling in the U.S.

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The heavy truck industry is already looking at electric trucks and Walmart is supposed to be planning a test soon. Local delivery trucks would seem to be the first market and would likely be a good fit. Electric could be a boon to hauling as the torque is always available and you don't have to deal with the dramatic curves we have with IC engines. Trucks actually have a lot of real estate that can be used for photovoltaic too.

I see many downsides to electric and I wonder if they will be the savior everyone thinks they will be, but there are also plus sides if the technology can develop a bit.

I think the future of motorcycles will likely be much different than what we have been used to. I just don't see Harley making it on it's current product line for more than a couple of decades. Unless and until something happens that makes them attractive to kids, I think the industry in the US will diminish. Frankly, motorcycling is the single most dangerous thing I do and most of the younger generation has been shielded and protected its whole life. I don't see them taking much risk.
 
Getting back the OP :) - status of motorcycling NOW in the US:

My opinion (nothing particularly novel here) is that there are two main challenges facing the motorcycle market:

1) "recent past" bikes hold up pretty darn well, both in build / maintenance terms and in ride quality / competitiveness terms. While I'm certain that a new bike would be FUN to have, the bikes I've got (bought used) have a LOT of life left in them. I think this means that for folks not made of money, they can either keep bikes longer or can get a great, used bike for very little dough. Look at the posts here for confirmation. Perhaps when 50k miles was "high mileage", folks simply "needed" to buy newer bikes more often?

2) Buying power of the majority of the US is still suffering. The Fed might see the economy strong enough to keep raising interest rates, but until there are years of sustained lower- and middle-income wage growth, I see reasonably large purchase, discretionary spend continuing to be slow. If millennials really are screwed, then there's nothing the motorcycle industry can do about that. The one millennial in my life with any motorcycle interest has a pretty darn chaotic life right now, and he's (correctly, IMO) delaying moving up from bike-interested to bike-owner.

There's no bike that doesn't yet exist that would make me pull out my wallet today. In fact, for me the current array and rate at which new bikes are added to the stack just make me take more 'wait and see' approach. I can "afford" to be patient because my 8 and 10 year old bikes are "new enough" for me.
 
Well, I seriously doubt MY personal buying power could keep up with all this electric change over if it's all true. I'll be buying used if I buy at all. Of course, at the rate I've been riding last few years, I'll wear out my 2000 KLR650 in about 2120. :rofl: I have about 33,000 on it now and I think I had 31,000 on it 6 years ago when I moved out here. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I seriously doubt an electric pick up could have the 10,000 lb tow capacity I enjoy while hauling my 4400 lb travel trailer. But, we'll see. I'll wear out that truck eventually and will need something new. If that something new's MSRP is 6 figures, well, I'll just have to give up the RV, I guess.

Making these things affordable is something the lefties never think of and when they turn out to cost a small fortune, they just get the gooberment to subsidize things. Well, not even the gooberment lives on a stable income! We have enough petroleum for another 100 years and I ain't really buying into the whole global warming thing, so I think there's plenty of time to develop something and a SANE market for it. Besides, these things still take fuel.....coal, natural gas, SOMEthing to generate power. Windmills and solar you say? :rofl: They can cover every square inch of America with those things and not keep up with energy demands ESPECIALLY once we have a couple of trillion cars charging every night. And, I just HOPE the batteries don't have a lot in common with hoover boards. :rofl:
 
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:shrug: We gotta get off this idea that electric motors can't move anything big. There are electric fork lifts, submarines, locomotives and mining equipment. A recent news article reported on Tesla selling electric trucks to Budweiser, so apparently they can pull a trailer full of beer. The fun factor in electric motors isn't that they product tons of horsepower, it's that they produce tons of torque. Anyway, considering some of the military technology being developed the question isn't if electricity can pull a travel trailer, but rather how far can it throw one. Motorcycles are a technological 'give me.' ;-)
 
Did anyone see this? Sorta thought of this thread when I saw it. It'd be kinda scary to be riding down the road and get attacked by rats. :rofl:

http://www.kgw.com/news/investigations/why-rats-are-chewing-up-hybrid-cars/499704391

When my daughter was in high school, I bought her an old Oldsmobile Cutlass. A rat got in the wiring harness under the hood once and when she went to drive to school, it wouldn't do anything. It'd eaten its way through part of the harness. I opened the hood, rat ran out on the opposite side fender, I pulled out my NAA mini revolver and shot it off the fender. :rofl: Got my revenge at least.
 
Jack Giesecke said:
Well, if you wanna pay for it, I'll try it out. :rolleyes: And, I don't want my bed filled up with batteries so's I can get to Canada on one charge.

Do all you folks own stock in Tesla or something? :rofl:
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No but many see the writing on the wall, and the insane leaps in battery and electric tech. :giveup:

Trillions of cars? Try currently 253 million in the US.

Infrastructure investment will have to be something that gets done but we need that already. We're running on electrical infrastructure that is old and falling apart might as well upgrade while we're in the process of putting it back together.

Eventually the cost will come down as it has with everything else that was once new tech. Compared to an electric drive train the IC drive train, transmission, ect ect is practically a Rube Goldberg Machine.

I'll be the first to admit that a full replacement of gas cars with electric cars at this moment in time isn't feasible just based on range and recharge rate but that time will come.

The recently unveiled Tesla tractor (18 wheeler) has a claimed 500 mile range and 0-60 time of 5 seconds lol. Even Cummins is getting into the electric heavy duty truck game.
 
But more along the lines of the OP asked for this thread.

CRF250L rally with the CB500 engine.

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+

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Or a CB500X w/STg3 rally raid kit as a factory option.

honda-cb500x-with-adventure-kit-2.jpg
 
Meriden said:
:shrug: We gotta get off this idea that electric motors can't move anything big. There are electric fork lifts, submarines, locomotives and mining equipment. A recent news article reported on Tesla selling electric trucks to Budweiser, so apparently they can pull a trailer full of beer. The fun factor in electric motors isn't that they product tons of horsepower, it's that they produce tons of torque. Anyway, considering some of the military technology being developed the question isn't if electricity can pull a travel trailer, but rather how far can it throw one. Motorcycles are a technological 'give me.' ;-)
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That's what I was thinking. Aren't the diesel engines in locomotives just to provide electricity to the electric motors that actually turn the wheels?
 
tshelfer said:
Electric is coming. In the world of automotive sports, the FIA is recognizing that gas-powered F1 cars could ultimately become dinosaurs instead of test beds and purveyors of next-generation technology. To that end, they're created Formula E, an all-electric open-wheel racing class, in hopes of capturing the imaginations of a generation who may never drive a car with a gasoline engine.
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DORNA has now done the same with MotoGP. Racing should prompt development of more compact battery sources and weight reduction efforts, but much will depend on how much room teams have to alter the "spec" bike. Perhaps this can be the boost to help Energica push forward, lower costs, etc.

https://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/energica-chosen-as-manufacturer-for-new-electric-motogp-series

If cost, weight/size of batteries and range can be addressed, electric is fascinating in the 100% of torque avail from the start. Tesla will succeed with big trucks because there is ample space for batteries. Motorcycles will remain a challenge to balance range/weight. I can easily see a Can-Am Spyder being able to house enough battery for serious range, but batteries will need to advance significantly to get to touring. For short range, the current offerings from Zero and Alta are awesome. To me the sense of speed is bizarre because it isn't accompanied by increasing engine noise.
 
ShafT said:
DORNA has now done the same with MotoGP. Racing should prompt development of more compact battery sources and weight reduction efforts, but much will depend on how much room teams have to alter the "spec" bike. Perhaps this can be the boost to help Energica push forward, lower costs, etc.

https://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/energica-chosen-as-manufacturer-for-new-electric-motogp-series

If cost, weight/size of batteries and range can be addressed, electric is fascinating in the 100% of torque avail from the start. Tesla will succeed with big trucks because there is ample space for batteries. Motorcycles will remain a challenge to balance range/weight. I can easily see a Can-Am Spyder being able to house enough battery for serious range, but batteries will need to advance significantly to get to touring. For short range, the current offerings from Zero and Alta are awesome. To me the sense of speed is bizarre because it isn't accompanied by increasing engine noise.
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If they can squeeze a 150-200 mile range out of them which they pretty much have for the top of the line battery options from Zero they have winner in my book. They need to 1)drop the price), 2) find a way to get the recharge times down.

IMO "refilling" is where fossil fuel really has it over electric vehicles at this moment in time. Even if we expanded charging infrastructure to match current refueling infrastructure I can't pull up to a charging station and then roll away a few minutes later with a "full tank". even with the high end fast chargers which require specialized infrastructure to work properly you're still looking at 30-90 minutes to get a mostly but not quite full charge.
 
OK - I'll keep going with the E-truck thread-jacking with this :

The Tesla Semi just got another high-profile customer, with UPS announcing it too plans to add the all-electric truck to its fleet. The delivery behemoth confirmed today that it has placed a reservation for 125 of the Tesla trucks, having worked with the EV company to make sure the haulage vehicle is up to its demands.

Full article here

UPS and Walmart kinda know alot about trucking. So, yeah, I think this is catching on...
 
Get the gooberment out of it, let it develop on the free markets sans any gooberment mandates or subsidies. THIS is my biggest gripe about all the "electric car" thing, I mean, beside the fact that I see the gooberment outlawing RVs, pick ups, boats, the things that make me happy in my old age. :rolleyes: Hopefully, before all this electric stuff happens, I'll be dead, buried in my plot next to my wife in Port Lavaca. THEN, I don't care. :rofl:
 
Oh, and I ain't givin' the UPS guy a charge when he shows up with a dead battery having driven the 75 miles from the UPS office in South Victoria. :D

One thing I DID do is get to drive a "Bad Boy" UTV. Last year, friends came down and we booked a goose hunt. One of my friends runs an Arctic Cat dealership in Waco, bought a used '95 250 Arctic Cat ATV from him a few years back that has been marvelous. :D

We took this UTV hunting, followed the guide on his ATV out to the spot in some wicked mud in a rice field. He went and parked it, when it was time to go, he'd left his key on and the battery was drained. :rofl: The guide had to tow us back to the truck/trailer. Other than that, though, this thing has a 40 mile range and it's one mean 4x4 in the muck. :D It IS pricey. I drove it down the road with my wife, both buddies in the vehicle, and QUIET was neat. We saw deer over here, deer over there, none of 'em had heard us coming. I didn't realize what a zoo we live in, wild critters everywhere, though we didn't see any hogs. They don't come out much in daylight. But, that's definitely and advantage to an electric UTV/ATV. If I could afford one, I'd like to have one. Don't really NEED it, but heck, if I could make it street legal, I could run down to Sandy Creek store in it or to Sheridan. I could run the gravel county road to the post office anyway. Other folks in the area use their UTVs to run around on the county roads and private roads, never any law enforcement around here unless they HAVE to be. :lol2:

Anyone ever check out these electric all terrain bicycles that have hit the scene? They're several thousand dollars, but have peddles as well as electric motors with about a 40 mile range. I could afford one of these. It has variable power assistance up to full electric propulsion and will run 20 MPH. It's more for hunters, marketed to hunters, stealth transportation to you tree stand. :lol2: I don't NEED one, but it might be fun. :D Might could keep me in better shape, too. I'm deteriorating physically from health problems and could stand more exercise, but I live on a rough road not conducive to normal bicycle riding. Beside, I rather enjoyed the wildlife viewing from that Bad Boy.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1...y-_-Hunting+-+Big+Game-_-Rambo+Bikes-_-108350
 
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I'd love to have an avenue to be able to plate UTVs. Other states do it there's no reason Texas can't.
 
This Bad Boy would be awesome if you could plate it for the roads. The thing will run 40 or 50 mph and it's got a 40 mile range. It'd be great for short commutes in cities, not quite freeway capable, but certainly on city streets.
 
Here's another perspective. The motorcycle industry is doing fine. The artificial surge came when it became cool to own a Harley or a BMW or whatever because of the image. So the huge profits and numbers entering the market were an extended anomaly, but companies liked the profits and then started setting annual sales/profit goals based on this. There will be some shakeout of companies like Indian and others that got in bc of the profits, but normal market growth will be attainable after some pull-back.
 
Jack Giesecke said:
Anyone ever check out these electric all terrain bicycles that have hit the scene? They're several thousand dollars, but have peddles as well as electric motors with about a 40 mile range. I could afford one of these. It has variable power assistance up to full electric propulsion and will run 20 MPH. It's more for hunters, marketed to hunters, stealth transportation to you tree stand. :lol2: I don't NEED one, but it might be fun. :D Might could keep me in better shape, too. I'm deteriorating physically from health problems and could stand more exercise, but I live on a rough road not conducive to normal bicycle riding. Beside, I rather enjoyed the wildlife viewing from that Bad Boy.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1...y-_-Hunting+-+Big+Game-_-Rambo+Bikes-_-108350
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Hijack conti....Converted Rose Ann's Trek Navigator Cruiser to an Ebike using the LEED Electric Bike Conversion. They have conversions for Mountain bikes as well. The battery pack on this one is rated at 40 miles. Great for her because of decreased mobility. A lot more range than I would ever expect her to use but I don't just maintain a quarter of a tank of gas in my truck either. It has greatly extended the mileage of our outings and my conditioning trying to keep up with her.

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Test drove a Zero from Maxim in Allen some time ago. I would probably have one today but the range was to limited.
 
fossil said:
Test drove a Zero from Maxim in Allen some time ago. I would probably have one today but the range was to limited.
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The Zero SR is a hoot. I was sorely tempted but at the end of the day it isn't a better motorcycle than many offerings out there for 1/2 the price. That is to say, aside from not burning fuel and using oil, it doesn't do anything better than an SV650 or FZ-07. They're getting better all the time, but for now, it didn't work for me.

I think electric may well capture the next generation, if we can convince them that they need to be a participant in driving/riding, rather than merely a passenger who multi-tasks while being transported along the roadways, but that challenge will apply no matter what the source of propulsion.
 
I think the day is coming that human drivers will not be allowed on the roads. I don't have a feel for how long that will take to happen, but I think it will.
 
Crew Chief said:
I think the day is coming that human drivers will not be allowed on the roads. I don't have a feel for how long that will take to happen, but I think it will.
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And what will that do for racing? Computers racing each other in F1? Meh, bleak future IMHO. :D MC racing is already dying, though, and I never cared that much for car racing.
 
tshelfer said:
The other thing to realize is that we too often tend to look at tomorrow's technology through today's -- or even yesterday's -- eyes. 110 years ago, people scoffed at automobiles because it was hard to find fuel for them away from certain locations, and because automobiles couldn't emulate horses. As it turns out, the first problem was solved much more quickly than might have been expected, and nobody cared about the second. Transportation, and how we thought about it, wasn't dependent on the philosophy of horsemanship. It's easy for us to look at our use of motorcycles - or any IC-engine-based transportation - and assume the next generation will see its use exactly as we see it. When we do so, we're almost certainly wrong.

So where does this leave the future of the motorcycle? I have no idea. Maybe like those bright green bicycles in downtown Ft Worth that people borrow and use for a couple of bucks, then park for the next patron. What I know for sure is that what people need and want will always change and evolve, and markets will always change and evolve to meet the demand. That's enterprise. Ain't it great?
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^^^^^^^ This :deal:

The future doesn't happen because the past gets taken away from us. It happens because someone invents something that is an improvement. As PJ O'Rourke once said, "In general, life is better than it ever has been, and if you think that, in the past, there was some golden age of pleasure and plenty to which you would, if you were able, transport yourself, let me say one single word: 'dentistry'."
 
Meriden said:
....let me say one single word: 'dentistry'."
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Dentistry???!!!

38307764315_77144199b7_z.jpg
psycho by Tim Shelfer, on Flickr

A good friend of mine just retired from a 45-year dentistry career. David has told me many times, "There's not a single skill I learned in dental school that I use today." And thank goodness.
 
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