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Tire advice needed

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mr72

mr72

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Apr 23, 2020
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Location
Cedar Park, Texas, USA
First a little background. I have done probably 80%+ of my road motorcycling on my Bonneville, which has high performance sport/touring tires on it (17/17 mags). I don't ride fast or try to drag footpegs, but I do appreciate the solid, sure-footed feel of the Bonnie. Most of the other riding I've done was on my GS500 which had similar sport/touring tires on 17" wheels until relatively recently. Like 95% of my riding has been on 17" sport-touring road tires. I did switch my GS500 to more adventure-type ergos and put Shinko 705s on it a few years ago to give me a bike more usable on gravel, and I have ridden it enough on this setup to be very comfortable with it; it's very good on pavement, even very bad pavement, but it's still pretty iffy on loose sandy gravel like the roads out by my parents' place near Castell. Seems fine on ordinary hard packed gravel.

So, I need a new rear tire for my Triumph Scrambler 900. This is a ~60hp 450lb tall Bonneville with 17/19 spoke wheels. Currently has Shinko 705s front and rear, and it feels fine when I ride it. I've only put maybe 200 miles on it since I bought it, but I have no complaints about traction or handling. The front tire is good but the rear tire is nearly gone.

I'm considering moving from the 80/20 (more like 90/10) 705s to a more 50/50 tire like a Kenda K270 (L) or Kenda K784 "big block" (M) or a Shinko SR700 (R):
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Guessing the big-block or the SR700 either one will be a better match for the E705 up front if I only change one tire. None of these are available in the right size for the front, so swapping both tires is not likely.

So, what's the advice from the collective here? I mean, once we get past the idea that it's not OK to mix front/rear tires, do you guys think using one of these tires on the rear with the front E705 tire will result in unpredictable street handling for a sport/touring pavement tire user like me? Or is it going to give me the little bit better gravel performance I am after with no downside except maybe noise and wear?

The obvious safe choice is to just go with another E705 on the rear, just wondering whether a creative idea is a good idea.
 
i've used all 3 and all are good as 50/50 tires; I ended up with the K270 - they seem to be the best for
my type of riding on what I call BDR type roads. he work well out west on the more hard packed type
of roads and are very quiet on the road, They are OK on sand but don't expect too much.
The K270 are my "go-to" tires on every bike expect my enduro/single track bike.

Any Big-Block tire will howl a bit on black top but the K270 are quiet

However don't expect high mileages - I usually get 3000 miles from a se
 
FitzPA said:
i've used all 3 and all are good as 50/50 tires; I ended up with the K270 - they seem to be the best for
my type of riding on what I call BDR type roads.
Click to expand...

Have you tried it with a more street oriented tire matched up front? That's my bigger concern.
 
Alright, now I realize I failed to communicate the point of this exercise.

I am not replacing the front tire. It's a Shinko E705. I am happy with that tire.

The question is: for a rider like me with mostly street tire experience, will any of the suggested tires match well with the front E705 without creating unpredictable handling behaviors.

My hunch is either the Shinko 700 or the Kenda BB will match best, or that I should just get another E705 and live with iffy gravel performance.
 
I think you missing what @William Wolfen is getting at.

He mentioned that he recommended having the most aggressive tire up front. He basically said he would not choose a more aggressive tire for the rear than is on the front. So by your choices that leaves you with sticking with what you have.
This thinking is often used in the off road crowd that steering and braking on the front are paramount and a drifting or sliding rear can be managed.

I have a matching set front and rear on bike for the first time in 20 years probably. I tend to pick what I like for both ends.

That said if I had a Scrambler type bike I would likely go with a TKC 80 or a Big Block type front and rear. I wouldn’t hesitate to put the rear on now and the front later.
 
bwdmax said:
I think you missing what @William Wolfen is getting at.
Click to expand...

No, I get it, for sure. And if I were riding off-road, I might even agree.

bwdmax said:
He mentioned that he recommended having the most aggressive tire up front. He basically said he would not choose a more aggressive tire for the rear than is on the front. So by your choices that leaves you with sticking with what you have.
This thinking is often used in the off road crowd that steering and braking on the front are paramount and a drifting or sliding rear can be managed.
Click to expand...

I think the same thing is true though on the road. I don't want to sacrifice street handling by going with a worse road tire, which may be a better off-road tire, up front, for a motorcycle where I ride 99% on the road. To me, pushing in sandy gravel roads is manageable, washing out or slipping off a rock will lay the bike down. I'm not riding fast off road. I am trying to just make it through a mile of gravel here and there or across a single 1" deep water crossing out of a whole season of riding.

bwdmax said:
I have a matching set front and rear on bike for the first time in 20 years probably. I tend to pick what I like for both ends.

That said if I had a Scrambler type bike I would likely go with a TKC 80 or a Big Block type front and rear. I wouldn’t hesitate to put the rear on now and the front later.
Click to expand...

If I were replacing both tires I'd probably go with a Heidenau K60 Scout, seems the best compromise. None of these tires I am considering are available in the right size for my Scrambler as a front tire, but I'm much less likely to take a chance on a front tire since I feel like the tradeoff in braking performance on pavement might be too much.

Some of the V-Strom folks have run a similar combo, Shinko 705 front and 805 rear, the 805 is similar to the Kenda BB I posted about. The 705 on the front of this Scrambler probably has another 7-8K miles left in it, so I would go through two more big block rear tires before I'd be ready to replace it. If I'm going to make a long run on a mismatched set, I am more likely to try that SR700 Shinko tire in the rear since it has the closer tread pattern to the E705 and might be more similar in performance. It's a 60/40 tire according to Shinko, the E705 is an 80/20. Maybe that's an acceptable compromise. I doubt I'll ever seriously consider a 50/50 type tire on the front on a 450lb motorcycle I ride 99% of the time on the street.
 
"but it's still pretty iffy on loose sandy gravel like the roads out by my parents' place", well, get used to that "iffy feel" on loose stuff. Loose gravel just feels that way. A thin layer is like riding on marbles, and deep gravel is more like sand. I use tires like your top picture on my dr650 because they work reasonably well and are cheap. Used to have a 1000 v-strom - only rode it on better gravel roads, most miles were on the street, and I settled on using street tires and going a bit slower on gravel. The 80/20 tires aren't any better in the gravel, and not as good on the street.
 
OSU55 said:
well, get used to that "iffy feel" on loose stuff. Loose gravel just feels that way
Click to expand...

I appreciate that input, and I get it. I don't mind it feeling iffy. It's just very rare that I have a need to ride on this surface, so I have very little experience and won't really have a way to add to it. Since I need a new rear tire on the Scram, figured it was worth investigating the options. At the moment I'm considering taking a chance on an SR700. If it doesn't work out, I can always swap tires around. At least it's an inexpensive tire.
 
It's been a few months but there's an update.

I found a new/never-mounted Michelin Anakee Wild for super cheap on FB that will fit the front of my Scrambler, so I grabbed it. Then I found a killer deal on a Kenda Big Block for the rear, and I ordered that. I'll likely swap the rear tire and see what it feels like riding with the BB rear and 705 on front, then I can swap on the Anakee up front and compare. At least that will give me a setup that will let me gain experience riding on the road with knobbies, and have the 705 as a backup in case I wind up needing to do a long road ride on that bike.
 
FWIW, I'm running a Shinko 804 on the front and a Dunlop Trail Max Mission on the rear of my Africa Twin. I just got back from a reunion ride to the Three Sisters with some county (rock/sand) roads thrown in for spice.

The tire combo worked very well. Both ends stuck to tarmac and gravel quite well ... and after the 1k round trip from Cypress, it's hard to see any appreciable wear on the Dunlop.

I'd like to hear a bit more of others' experience with tire combos.
 
Well, my combo winds up being slightly oddball sizes, but it was the low price option. We'll see how that affects on-road handling. I have no fear of mismatching tires. I have some fear of unintentionally expecting these 50/50 tires to behave like street tires especially in an emergency maneuver. It'll take some time for me to work up to feeling confident enough to take the Scrambler on 100+ mile trip.
 
TOE JAM said:
The K270s are very ”squirmy” in the corners even on a dirtbike that weighs 200 lbs less. Very noticeable on blacktop.
Click to expand...
Yep, they almost have a "break over" point that comes in at a fair amount of lean. Once past that point though, they grip suprisingly well. For as heavy a bike as you have though, I'd definitly keep tire ply in mind. A heavy bike needs stronger sidewalls, so might want to see what the big bike boys are running.
 
Rydah said:
Yep, they almost have a "break over" point that comes in at a fair amount of lean. Once past that point though, they grip suprisingly well. For as heavy a bike as you have though, I'd definitly keep tire ply in mind. A heavy bike needs stronger sidewalls, so might want to see what the big bike boys are running.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's a good point, and they are running tires much like the ones I am putting on. In fact, I was inspired to try this tire combo by some T700 users with the same combo and good results. I'm not trying to turn this into a dirt bike, but I am just trying to keep it upright on gravel and that pink sand/gravel mix like on Llano county roads without causing the road manners on pavement to be that much different from my other bikes.

Truth is, this is all about my lack of experience. I don't have any kind of feel for how a 50/50 tire feels at the edge of traction on pavement. All of my road miles are on 80/20 or 100/0 road tires. And I have little opportunity to ever gain experience on this kind of sandy gravel where my GS500 is so dodgy, so I want a tire that'll just work without me having to pay a lot of dues figuring it out. So I want a tire that feels and sticks like a sport touring road tire on pavement and requires near-zero experience to keep the bike upright and going the direction I point it on rocky-gravel and sandy-gravel surfaces. Impossible, I know.
 
Shinko also makes a big block tire. I haven't bought motorcycle tires in years but the 804/805 combo was my go to for a long time and I was very happy with them on my Strom.

 
Yeah, the 805 was on my list, it's basically identical to the Kenda Big Block and really close to a TCK80. The Kenda supposedly doesn't last as long as the Shinko, and the Shinko doesn't last as long as the Conti. The ADV guys say these tires handle just like a road tire on pavement, which I find super hard to believe. The Kenda was half the price because of the unreal deal I got on it, so believe it or not I'll get the Kenda/Michelin combo on my bike for $127 grand total.

The Anakee is waiting in the garage and the Kenda should be here next week. Then let's see if I can find a few hours to swap them. Hopefully these tube-type are easier to mount than the 17" tubeless alloys on my other bikes.
 
Again, FWIW, I had the 805 on my Africa Twin. It was an enjoyable tire on the road or dirt so long as it was dry. The biggest issue I had was the mileage- I got only 3k out of the tire before it nearly to the carcass.

It's a matter of economics and convenience in my book - cheap to buy but a hassle to change.
 
TOE JAM said:
The K270s are very ”squirmy” in the corners even on a dirtbike that weighs 200 lbs less. Very noticeable on blacktop.
Click to expand...

Rydah said:
Yep, they almost have a "break over" point that comes in at a fair amount of lean. Once past that point though, they grip suprisingly well. For as heavy a bike as you have though, I'd definitly keep tire ply in mind. A heavy bike needs stronger sidewalls, so might want to see what the big bike boys are running.
Click to expand...
Strange, I run the 270's on my KLR and LOVE them on the dirt and the pavement. The big thing with them is that they should NOT be run at anything close to dirt bike pressures. 30psi and they are happy as can be everywhere!
 
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