KTM 1190 ADVENTURE

[Tourmeister]

Well... after this past weekend in the Hill Country, Kromy67 can now tell you what is involved with restarting a hydro-locked 1190

What is crazy is that he ingested the water despite not going down and never going through water that was up to the intakes. Apparently, enough was able to simply splash in during a short crossing to flood the rear cylinder.

 

[SilverBullet]

How in the world could it "splash in"? Very strange.

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[kurt]

How in the world could it "splash in"? Very strange.

_

My major beef with the 1190 was the air box. Right off the bat I had to consider modifying the air box to prevent it sucking in dirt. The fix? Remove the air box lid and install $400 aftermarket filter kit. I wondered if it was susceptible to water infiltration.

 

[Rsquared]

Well... after this past weekend in the Hill Country, Kromy67 can now tell you what is involved with restarting a hydro-locked 1190

What is crazy is that he ingested the water despite not going down and never going through water that was up to the intakes. Apparently, enough was able to simply splash in during a short crossing to flood the rear cylinder.

Did you happen to notice which air filter he was using?

 

[TOE JAM]

Maybe sucked water in through the air box vent line or throttle body sync lines that weren't properly connected/routed/blocked off after SAS removal.

 

[Tourmeister]

Well, he never went under and the water was never much above the center line of the front wheel on any of the crossings. There was water in the air box. The filter was soaked. Everything looked stock to me, but I've never peeked into an 1190 air box before. I have pics and will post them in the HC 500 ride report thread once they finish uploading.

When he finally got the plugs out and we rolled the bike in gear to spin the engine, water only came out of the rear cylinder, quite a bit in fact. Nothing came out of the front if I recall correctly. I was at the top of the hill when it died on him, so I don't know if it sputtered and died or just stopped suddenly.

 

[Tourmeister]

Here is the only pic of the interior of the airbox after the filter had been removed.

I am guessing the lack of water in the front cylinder means the engine stopped immediately after water was sucked into the rear.

Tipping it to make sure everything is out of the exhaust

Rolling it in gear to turn the motor

They shot some WD-40 into the cylinders and rolled it a bit more just for good measure After reassembly (minus the wet filter), the engine fired on the third crank and ran fine. No weird smoking, smells, or noises. There were little mesh covers over the ends of the intake tubes that run from the air box to the front of the bike. We rode only pavement back to Kerrville so we figured he'd be fine without the main filter. The oil looked its normal color when viewed through the sight glass. He said it ran fine on the ride back to Kerrville. The whole tear down and reassemble process took about two hours. A lot of folks were looking at their bikes and thinking how long it might take them to get to their plugs if it had happened to them... except for the 1150/1200 GS riders

 

[kromy67]

It's funny I was writing this and when I was abuot to send it I saw the updates ...
IN any case this is it...I use Shinko 705 and I’m happy so far. They are supposed to be 80/20.
Something I wanted to share during my first Hill Country 500. After crossing some rivers (about 5) without issues my bike didn’t wanted to start. It just stalled and that was it. I felt one time and got it back up pretty quick but I don’t know how much water could go through the filters or how much water had been accumulating while crossing. I think I was crossing the rivers too fast and wasn’t paying attention how much water was getting through the air intakes. I couldn’t have been luckier getting a ride to the closest restaurant where I could start disassembling it to check the air box. My plan was to get the trailer (Ride as a passenger with a friend) and get back home thinking how much money I was going to spend on repairs. I would say there were about three cups of water inside the cylinders. Two guys were riding with me with a lot of mechanics expertise helped to take the spark plugs out to and put everything back. The bike had been performed without issues. Oil looked fine but I will change it anyways. I came back to life after I headed the engine running again. Somebody took a pic I’ll share and called “The Legendary KTM Field Side Repair”.

 

[kromy67]

Both cylinders had water but I took most of it out with a hose before lifting it

 

[SilverBullet]

...

Your supervisor in the background looks unimpressed. Hey Mark grab that pannier on the left and pull. Lol

...A lot of folks were looking at their bikes and thinking how long it might take them to get to their plugs if it had happened to them... except for the 1150/1200 GS riders

Yep not a quick or easy task for most modern multi cylinder bikes. But luckily thinking about it is all we ever need to do unless you submarine your bike. This low water splash in is bizzare. Looks like another air box fix needed.

_

 

[kromy67]

Your supervisor in the background looks unimpressed. Hey Mark grab that pannier on the left and pull. Lol




Yep not a quick or easy task for most modern multi cylinder bikes. But luckily thinking about it is all we ever need to do unless you submarine your bike. This low water splash in is bizzare. Looks like another air box fix needed.

_

The water went through the paper filter. I don't see how the foam filter would prevent it. It was so much water it could go all the way up the pipe. What I see it's the air in takes are too looking forward getting all the splashes while I've seen others bikes air intakes are more hidden.

 

[kromy67]

I'd like to take a look to Scott's pictures and see how high the water was. I don't see it was low. The orientation of the air intakes are not water proof .

 

[bwdmax]

Ok, I don’t own an 1190 nor have I ever even seen one in person, but I can dream, so take my explanation for what it is worth. In other words I may be all wet.

I looked at the pictures and did a little reading on all the air box complaints. The paper filter seems to have a poor seal at the bottom. I would bet that when splashing or when you dropped the bike the water got to the air box and entered through the filter or poor seal at the bottom. The design of the box is such that once water enters there is no place for it to go except down the velocity stacks. The water doesn’t have to be all the way up the stack, there is a lot of suction at the sacks and the paper filter will be restricted when wet allowing the engine to vacuum the water right out of the air box. The difference with a foam pod right on the velocity stack is that the box no longer has to be totally sealed allowing for a drain in the box. The foam may get wet and allow moist air but not a big drink all at one time since the majority of the water will leave via a drain. Like I said I am sitting in the cheap seats making a lot of assumptions. Glad you got it running with no obvious damage.

 

[kromy67]

Thanks for your comments. The 2015 model air box has a better design compare to previous ones. KTM improved it after the issues. I’ve opened myself and checked during the service and it seals. After your comments I realized the better drain offered by the foam pod and I think that’s what I’m going to go to. I also thought about installing a check or a drain valve on the air box as a preventive action when crossing rivers at my speed  or a drop in water. I know any open will bypass the filter so it has to be well design. Now, the stack are bolted and sealed to the body (I removed them myself) to the air will getting from the top to prevent heavier particles or some liquid but not that much. I do agree the wet filter will offer a higher restriction to the air but not sure if high enough to break the filter seal after the improvement on the air box design. I did installed the filter again and it was a somewhat wet but in good condition and I’ll let you know as soon as I change it. I did ride the second day flagless, we did almost the full route. It was an excellent route and ride regardless of some rain. We finished the day at Cooper’s Barbeque and went back home very happy.

 

[kromy67]

I saw some pics but they were all lighter bikes and the splashed water aims directly where my bikes air intakes are. I don’t have a clue where those bikes air intakes are but it seems they don’t get as much water inside as the KTM 1190. A BWM I think it was an 800 GS needed the same after a drop but with a better access to the air filter and spark plugs specially without removing the gas tank . Looking at my bike pics during the repair the light came to me and realized the “second” cylinder is lower so its stack and that’s why there was more water in it.

 

[Ouroboros]

What kind of tire pressure can you run with the tkc 80s without setting off the TPMS?

If I remember it usually comes on around 25 psi.

 

[Tourmeister]

If I remember it usually comes on around 25 psi.

That is usually about as high as I go with the TKC's on my 1200 GS. I might go a bit higher if I know I am going to be doing a lot of paved riding. Other wise I keep them around 23-25 psi front and rear.

 

[kromy67]

My major beef with the 1190 was the air box. Right off the bat I had to consider modifying the air box to prevent it sucking in dirt. The fix? Remove the air box lid and install $400 aftermarket filter kit. I wondered if it was susceptible to water infiltration.

Did you have to install a Power Commander V or other type of combustion device assistant?

 

[bwdmax]

Did you have to install a Power Commander V or other type of combustion device assistant?

I would say you do not have to and I read on the manufactures info that you do not. They do however offer a cheaper solution than a PC if you choose.

From there web site
http://www.rottweilerperformance.com/rottweiler-intake-system-adventure-1190-1290/

Installation of the Rottweiler Intake System on an Adventure 1190 / Super Adventure test bike has been tested to stay within very safe air fuel ratios with completely stock mapping at sea level. Air Fuel Ratios (AFRs) tested averaged out around 13.5 consistently with no mapping added. That being said, we can in no way guarantee that every motorcycle will perform the same way although it is very likely. We would suggest the use of our 'Rottweiler Fueling Dongles' to bump up your low end air fuel ratios by .5 to 1 point. Your stock ECU (on every KTM twin) uses 2 different maps to pass EPA standards. What this means it that below 5000 RPM and 20% throttle, your ECU is in what is called 'Closed Loop' mode which causes it to 'listen' to the stock narrow band O2s and other measuring devices and keep the low end as close to 14.7 AFR as possible. This is what causes the surging and 'jerkiness' of most 990's. The Rottweiler Fueling Dongles send a preset signal back to the stock ECU that causes it to send fuel closer to 13.8 AFR in closed loop mode which is much closer in transition to the rest of the mapping above that. We have found that your average AFRs stay .5 to 1 full point lower with these dongles. If you plan on purchasing a Powercommander unit to maximize the result of your Rottweiler Intake System, it comes with these dongles and you will not need to purchase them separately. If you do not want a Powercommander at this time, the Rottweiler Fueling Dongles are a great way to smooth out power deliver and they are plug and play.

 

[SilverBullet]

I'd like to take a look to Scott's pictures and see how high the water was. I don't see it was low. The orientation of the air intakes are not water proof .

"low water crossing" to me is terminology for water that is safe to cross. If it's "high water" you turn around. How high to make you turn around varies by bike. But wheel axle water height as Tourmeister stated is definitely "low" and crossable.

_

 

[kromy67]

"low water crossing" to me is terminology for water that is safe to cross. If it's "high water" you turn around. How high to make you turn around varies by bike. But wheel axle water height as Tourmeister stated is definitely "low" and crossable.

_

yes, it's relative...I would do it again but a little bit slower without modification. The level of the water was safe for me but unsafe for my bike

 

[Ouroboros]

If water intrusion is of concern keep the air box. It adds some protectionn Use a Uni Filter or Powercell filter pods for filtering. If your looking for performance and better air filtration for road use the Rotwieler is the way to go.

 

[Tourmeister]

This is the crossing where it stalled. You can see the car easily going through.

This is the previous crossing with him at about the deepest part

This was perhaps the deepest crossing... but was before the two shown above.

The only time I saw the water really getting up high was on that deep crossing in the two pics above. The other crossings I don't recall seeing it get up much above the top of the wheel. I don't recall seeing him go down, but I wasn't watching all the time.

 

[Ouroboros]

This is the crossing where it stalled. You can see the car easily going through.

This is the previous crossing with him at about the deepest part

This was perhaps the deepest crossing... but was before the two shown above.

The only time I saw the water really getting up high was on that deep crossing in the two pics above. The other crossings I don't recall seeing it get up much above the top of the wheel. I don't recall seeing him go down, but I wasn't watching all the time.

3rd photo shows quite a bit of water up to the air intake. A GS has the same issue when pushing water up in front of the bike.

 

[kromy67]

3rd photo shows quite a bit of water up to the air intake. A GS has the same issue when pushing water up in front of the bike.

I did drooped once but I don't know where Scott was. The third pic shows clearly the water going into the air intakes. Nice pics Scott! Thanks.