The Status of motorcycling in the U.S.

[Crew Chief]

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I'm still trying to sort out how YETI became an aspirational brand. It's on the back of pickups and SUVs, but I've never seen a Coleman or Igloo sticker. What makes a plastic locker worth bragging about to strangers?

...

Amen

 

[Mextrekadv]

One bike that would bolster the US passion for riding, and one I would personally love to ride, isn't available in the states. Sure the Honda Grom is the new fun platform to get millenials on bikes. But at $4k out the door it ain't cheap. We need a cheaper alternative to make riding wallet friendly.

The Bajaj CT100 "spoke" is India's cheapest standard style bike at 35,181 rupees. At 89.5 kilometers per liter they are also very, very fuel efficient. They can carry a rider and passenger at 95 km/hr, with a top speed of 110 km/hr. Translated to Engrish, $544.68 new. 208 miles per gallon. 67 mph top speed.

Before you start making angry faces and saying I am clueless let me tell you about my El Salvador adventure. 2 bikes, 100cc Hero Honda.

Bought for cash, sold upon departure. 10 days of the funnest riding and motoexploring I've done. Is 110 Km slow? On a freeway, yes. In town, not one bit. On mountain roads, no. On beaches? no. On goat paths seeking waterfalls, no. 2 up? No. Fun at every turn.

The restraint needed to ride our modern bikes at safe and legal speeds is huge. On a little bike it is pedal to the metal all the way, all the time. Huge smiles. And while it seems impossible, we slid tires around corners, burned off boot heels, eliminated chicken strips, and roasted drum brakes. So much fun.

 

[Mextrekadv]

The closest I can get to a Bajaj CT100 is a mexican market Italika 125 Rojo. $646.00 Sold at Elektra appliance stores throughout mexico. I'm thinking of picking one up just to have at the house for running errands. And keeping the Mexican plate, just for fun.

 

[tshelfer]

I think some of you are getting close to at least one of the root problems causing motorcycling to shrink in the US. When I was a kid, bikes were cheap, even in equivalent dollars. They were also light, fun, and not terribly fast. We loved them.

Like cars, bikes in US culture have been pushed along by the heavier-is-better mentality. 45 years heavily into Japanese car culture and a surprisingly large number of Americans still can't fathom that small and fuel-efficient can also be comfortable, bullet proof, and perfectly capable of making a multi-thousand-mile journey at super-legal speeds in absolute comfort.

In the bike world, I am constantly told that my 650cc light touring adventure bike - you know, the one that carries me to Colorado every summer - is a "good little starter bike", but not for serious riders. That mentality tells new riders that you have to buy big, buy heavy, buy large displacement, and anything else is just a starter kit. Big, heavy, large-displacement also happens to be expensive. Expensive is discouraging.

For commuting or backroad fun, a 350-400cc bike is ample. That would serve the needs of most Americans who might buy a bike as a runabout; they just don't realize it.

 

[philipbarrett]

The closest I can get to a Bajaj CT100 is a mexican market Italika 125 Rojo. $646.00 Sold at Elektra appliance stores throughout mexico. I'm thinking of picking one up just to have at the house for running errands. And keeping the Mexican plate, just for fun.

I think they do a super-smart payment plan on these too?

 

[philipbarrett]

An interesting conversation I had with an industry marketing executive went along the lines of "what people say they want in a bike & what they actually buy are 2 very different things!"

 

[Windmill]

I would doubt the 208 mpg on the Indian 100, maybe coming down the Himalayas

 

[Mextrekadv]

I would doubt the 208 mpg on the Indian 100, maybe coming down the Himalayas

You are right. Most riders are reporting only 85 km per liter, or more like 188 miles per gallon.

Keep in mind this is a bike designed for basic transportation in India, for Indians, by Indians. Average speeds are probably 25 to 30 MPH, with lots of stop and go. But with a 100cc 7.7 hp engine and 5 ft pounds of torque, 4 speeds, and a tiny little KEIHIN-FIE PB 16mm carb. Think about it. 16 mm = 1.6 CM = 0.6 inch !!! carb. Compare this to a fuel miser Grom from Honda, a 125, gets 134 MPG with 8.8 HP and 8 ft lbs torque and a 26mm throttle body. A 26mm has an area of 530MM SQ. A 16mm is 201mm sq. So a GROM flows 2.5 times the airflow of a 100cc Bajaj. 188 MPG is a real world, supportable, no BS figure.

See, engineer to the needs of the population and not the hot rodders and price it basic basic and everything works. 100% full throttle on the highway is limited by carb. Motor never overheats or is stressed. Allows for a 2 year manufacturer warranty to 20,000 km. 50k is a normal number. 100k also seen on many CT100's.

http://www.mouthshut.com/bikes/Bajaj-CT-100-reviews-925046667

For all you early Honda fans waxing on about cheap prices back in the day...a 1966 Honda CT90 sold for $350. in today's dollars that is $2,657.00. Now contemplate the CT 100 Bajaj at $550.00 in 2017 dollars. Efficiency and cheap manufacturing perfected.

 

[Meriden]

For all you early Honda fans waxing on about cheap prices back in the day...a 1966 Honda CT90 sold for $350. in today's dollars that is $2,657.00. Now contemplate the CT 100 Bajaj at $550.00 in 2017 dollars. Efficiency and cheap manufacturing perfected.

Good point. Back in the 70s a friend bought a new Chevy Vega for a little less than the MSRP on a Harley Davidson Sportster. Today a bottom of the line Nissan Versa is about $13K while an 883 is $9k. Still pretty close.

 

[Windmill]

You are right. Most riders are reporting only 85 km per liter, or more like 188 miles per gallon.

Keep in mind this is a bike designed for basic transportation in India, for Indians, by Indians. Average speeds are probably 25 to 30 MPH, with lots of stop and go. But with a 100cc 7.7 hp engine and 5 ft pounds of torque, 4 speeds, and a tiny little KEIHIN-FIE PB 16mm carb. Think about it. 16 mm = 1.6 CM = 0.6 inch !!! carb. Compare this to a fuel miser Grom from Honda, a 125, gets 134 MPG with 8.8 HP and 8 ft lbs torque and a 26mm throttle body. A 26mm has an area of 530MM SQ. A 16mm is 201mm sq. So a GROM flows 2.5 times the airflow of a 100cc Bajaj. 188 MPG is a real world, supportable, no BS figure.

See, engineer to the needs of the population and not the hot rodders and price it basic basic and everything works. 100% full throttle on the highway is limited by carb. Motor never overheats or is stressed. Allows for a 2 year manufacturer warranty to 20,000 km. 50k is a normal number. 100k also seen on many CT100's.

http://www.mouthshut.com/bikes/Bajaj-CT-100-reviews-925046667

For all you early Honda fans waxing on about cheap prices back in the day...a 1966 Honda CT90 sold for $350. in today's dollars that is $2,657.00. Now contemplate the CT 100 Bajaj at $550.00 in 2017 dollars. Efficiency and cheap manufacturing perfected.

I know fuel milage is a major thing in India l thought it would be fuel injected with those numbers. I have got as high 75 mpg on my Indian bike. But it is 500 injected. I do like the price under a grand I may go for one. It would have to have EPA in the USA

 

[focus frenzy]

I'm still trying to sort out how YETI became an aspirational brand. It's on the back of pickups and SUVs, but I've never seen a Coleman or Igloo sticker. What makes a plastic locker worth bragging about to strangers?

Ok here is how.
Hand your nice frosty beverage to someone so they can watch you demonstrate something and when you depart the ER several hours later the beverage is still frosty because it was put in a yeti cooler.
Their stuff works.

 

[BornAgain]

No doubt Yeti's do work as advertised however I can buy lots of ice for the price difference of an Igloo

 

[focus frenzy]

its red neck Gucci, that sticker is show off so everyone else knows how well they got it.

and a 100 miles from no where there is no ice to buy.

PS: igloo makes a "three day" cooler now that does keep ice three days.

 

[Meriden]

I'd say that I don't understand why some people aspire to be rednecks, but sadly I do.

It seems that the moral question of our age is this: If your friend brings you a bad opportunity looking for your help to find financing. In good faith you try to show him it is a con, but he insist on mortgaging his house to prove he is right. Is it moral to make a commission off of the financing?

 

[Jack Giesecke]

Badmouth UTV/ATVs all ya want, but that's all folks have around here. You move down here, you HAVE to have a UTV. I bought an ATV for doing chores, work. It can hall 200 lbs of corn, pull a small disc harrow, negotiate the mud when it gets real wet while HAULING the corn. It drags my hog trap (I need to move it), hauls deer and hogs out of the woods once gutted and the carcass to the back fence once it's deboned. I can drag the disc with it to knock down hog damage, turn soil for planting food plots, even turning the garden, though I'm going to mostly raised beds and my tiller, lately.

The folks that buy these things care about getting around down here, cruising the road and talking to neighbors, etc. Seems like a UTV is a requirement when you build a cabin down here. Most are weekend land owners, but there are a few of us that live here permanent. It's a huge market, folks getting the heck out of the city either weekend escapes or permanent living in the country. For me, an ATV does some things I'd need a tractor for and it gets around in the mud a lot better than a tractor OR a dirt bike and can do WAY more work than a dirt bike.

Forget about your racing. Sure, it's everything to you right now, but trust me, most of the market for off road couldn't care less, most instances have never heard of racing. When I raced, I didn't think much about anything else, but it's not much of a market for motorcycle shops to cater to. The guy that runs El Campo Cycles goes to our church. He told me motorcycles sit on his show room while what makes the bacon is UTVs and lawn equipment. He's gotten in to high end zero turns and such. I'd LOVE to have a Polaris Brutus decked out with front end loader, finishing mower, road maintainer, but I'll pass on the price tag. I got rid of my SV650S and kept my 2000 model KLR when I moved here just because of the road I have to navigate to get to the highway. And, really, I rarely ride it anymore, never more than a trip to town when the wife's working. I used to ride everywhere, no longer.

All the above leads me to believe the old guys that once swelled the market, the guys like Big Spank Daddy and me, have gotten old. I've been riding street bikes and road racing and flat tracking most of my life. That is pretty much over. As my generation gets old, the market will shrink because NO younger folks care about motorcycles. There is no culture there anymore, or not much. I grew up on "Easy Rider" and "Then Came Bronson". Now days, there's no such culture or influence.

As for Jeeps, "Just Empty Every Pocket" comes to mind. It's not just the initial purchase, but the cost of maintenance added to that. And, then, what have you got? Sure, it's street legal, but you won't get around THESE woods like I can get around 'em on my ATV that set me back 1500 bucks used and is in great shape even though it's a 2005 model. We barely got down the trail in a Bad Boy Buggy a friend brought down here for goose hunting last year. I cut down a tree back there to stop that problem. It hung out over the trail and hit the roof as we drove by. You won't pull that disc with a Jeep, either.

The market for jeeps and dirt bikes is NOT the market for ATVs and UTVs, is basically what I'm saying. I spent a couple of years running corn out back on a KLR650. BOY, after getting that ATV, I don't know how I got by without it. And, that KLR has a big luggage rack, but I don't even have to strap the corn down on the ATV. It's awesome.

 

[JMZ]

I'd say that I don't understand why some people aspire to be rednecks, but sadly I do.

It seems that the moral question of our age is this: If your friend brings you a bad opportunity looking for your help to find financing. In good faith you try to show him it is a con, but he insist on mortgaging his house to prove he is right. Is it moral to make a commission off of the financing?

**** , you hatin on rednecks ? What's next , Bohemians ? [emoji15] [emoji15] [emoji15]

 

[Meriden]

**** , you hatin on rednecks ? What's next , Bohemians ? [emoji15] [emoji15] [emoji15]

My wife is a quarter Bohemian. Not picking on Moravian's either. I know too many good ones.

 

[JMZ]

I asked my wife if she had any Bohemian in her when I first met her . LOL.

 

[SilverBullet]

I asked my wife if she had any Bohemian in her when I first met her . LOL.

Well did she have any?

Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk

 

[JMZ]

Not until she met me.

 

[Crew Chief]

One bike that would bolster the US passion for riding, and one I would personally love to ride, isn't available in the states. Sure the Honda Grom is the new fun platform to get millenials on bikes. But at $4k out the door it ain't cheap. We need a cheaper alternative to make riding wallet friendly.

The Bajaj CT100 "spoke" is India's cheapest standard style bike at 35,181 rupees. At 89.5 kilometers per liter they are also very, very fuel efficient. They can carry a rider and passenger at 95 km/hr, with a top speed of 110 km/hr. Translated to Engrish, $544.68 new. 208 miles per gallon. 67 mph top speed.



Before you start making angry faces and saying I am clueless let me tell you about my El Salvador adventure. 2 bikes, 100cc Hero Honda.



Bought for cash, sold upon departure. 10 days of the funnest riding and motoexploring I've done. Is 110 Km slow? On a freeway, yes. In town, not one bit. On mountain roads, no. On beaches? no. On goat paths seeking waterfalls, no. 2 up? No. Fun at every turn.

The restraint needed to ride our modern bikes at safe and legal speeds is huge. On a little bike it is pedal to the metal all the way, all the time. Huge smiles. And while it seems impossible, we slid tires around corners, burned off boot heels, eliminated chicken strips, and roasted drum brakes. So much fun.

I agree. It is a lot of fun to ride a slow bike fast. I'm curious what you had to give for the little Hondas and how much of a hit you took. That seems like a fun idea. I'm betting that the bikes you are listing won't pass our emissions testing and the cost to make them do so and have them certified would be prohibitive. I'd love it if I was wrong.

I think some of you are getting close to at least one of the root problems causing motorcycling to shrink in the US. When I was a kid, bikes were cheap, even in equivalent dollars. They were also light, fun, and not terribly fast. We loved them.

Like cars, bikes in US culture have been pushed along by the heavier-is-better mentality. 45 years heavily into Japanese car culture and a surprisingly large number of Americans still can't fathom that small and fuel-efficient can also be comfortable, bullet proof, and perfectly capable of making a multi-thousand-mile journey at super-legal speeds in absolute comfort.

In the bike world, I am constantly told that my 650cc light touring adventure bike - you know, the one that carries me to Colorado every summer - is a "good little starter bike", but not for serious riders. That mentality tells new riders that you have to buy big, buy heavy, buy large displacement, and anything else is just a starter kit. Big, heavy, large-displacement also happens to be expensive. Expensive is discouraging.

For commuting or backroad fun, a 350-400cc bike is ample. That would serve the needs of most Americans who might buy a bike as a runabout; they just don't realize it.

I have a Tenere' for touring with my wife and I sometimes think that we could have done what we want with a Wee Strom. For the future, I really want a new bike that's in the 500 to no more than 650 range for me to travel on alone. I don't think I'll get it. The new 700 and 790's that are coming out are really more than what I want and the current KLR and DR are dated. Dated or not, there's been an awful lot of 'round the world stuff done on KLR's, DR650's and smaller. The idea that a "serious rider" has to have more is just nonsense. I wish we could get that out of our system.

 

[Jack Giesecke]

For commuting or backroad fun, a 350-400cc bike is ample. That would serve the needs of most Americans who might buy a bike as a runabout; they just don't realize it.

There was a time when my RD350 with expansion chambers was FAST. It could out drag race a CB750 and about the only production bike faster in 1975 were Kawasaki 2 strokes and the Z1. That bike could easily pass the "ton", 100 mph. In the industry, it was known as a "pocket rocket". Throw in a few corners on a tight road course and the RD could hold its own with a stock Z1.

Ah, yes, 2 strokes are gone, but in the modern era, a 4 stroke can get it done. No longer are they ignition by breaker points, carburetors, and 2 valves per cylinder screw tappet adjusted. The little 250 Kawasaki was a bit of a screamer 30 years ago.

So, I contend a 250 or 350 is not only capable, but it COULD be considered excess.

 

[Zonie]

It might surprise many to know that one of the worlds largest motorcycle manufactures is Royal Enfield. Right now they sell most of their bike in India at a very reasonable price, not much play around money there.
In a recent article RE introduced a new 650 twin designed to go head to head with Harley in India and looking to expand its market share to other parts of the world.
I agree with Mitch that having a windscreen and bags is a good thing along with a E-start. My knees can't take much of the kick start thing like they used to.
I saw a sign last summer that said it all, "What interesting place are you going to, just to stare at your phone"!
That my friends is the problem. Kids just can't be away from their phones long enough to enjoy a day of riding.

 

[hardybaker]

Scaling down from a 1200gs to a 650 Vstrom was a good choice. Neither age or nor physical ability were a consideration. Several years later, I wanted another bike and since neither my ego, and masculinity were not a factor I bought a scooter. Granted, it will run close to a hundred mph, but the fun factor is almost as high as having a sidecar rig. My Suzuki Burgman 650 is, is, is, very practical. That's why I bought a second Burgman. One for the island and one for Texas. I'll be installing a trailer hitch and pulling my Bushtec trailer anywhere I ever want to go. Now, I know several guys that probably look down their nose at scooters. Don't knock it till you try it. If you are lacking in your "man card", that's not my concern.
Scooters rock.

 

[woodsguy]

I don't think there's anything on the horizon that could turn the tides. The motorcycle market in this country is just too fractured for that "one bike" to even make a blip on the overall sales radar.

The only thing I could see coming close would be an electric bike that had the range, performance, and price of a roughly equivalent fuel burner. We're a long way from that. A Zero S with the power tank will get you close to 150 miles with 60 horsepower, but it costs almost $17K. That's a lot of dough for something that's not even up to the level of an SV650.

I truly think the manufacturers would be better off paring down the number of models they offer here. That's not cool for us, as we already miss out on some awesome bikes offered in international markets, but it seems like it would be in their best interest. Do we really need 35 Harley models that are all essentially the same, or four Duke models from KTM?
Perhaps selling fewer models in higher volumes could get the production costs down enough to offer a bike at a reasonable price and still maintain a decent profit margin.

I'm really just spit balling here. I don't study this stuff or anything, and I'm far from a business man. These are just my thoughts as somebody who likes bikes, but hates where the industry sits right now. It seems like there are a ton of bikes I'd like to have, but very few I'd be willing to pay the going rates for.

If anyone is interested Cycle Shack North has the Alta mx with 3000 dollar discount, still a lot of cash but that helps big time.